When/who will SS reduce?

From what I've read, the SS cap already "captures" something like 83-90% of all wage income, from year to year. So, would removing the cap entirely really make that much of a difference? I could see it helping somewhat, but in and of itself, I don't think it'll stop the draining.
 
So, would removing the cap entirely really make that much of a difference? I could see it helping somewhat, but in and of itself, I don't think it'll stop the draining.
Depends on what you mean by "somewhat".

The most recent estimate is that removing the tax cap entirely would eliminate 88% of the funding gap.
 
I totally agree with the last few posters that eliminating the cap should be considered... when I was working it was always a mystery to me and I would have been fine

My view would be yes... you need to allow those paying those additional SS taxes to gain some benefit... to not allow an increase in benefits would be an additional nudge of SS towards being just another welfare program

Lots of taxes I pay now give me no benefit. I suspect most high earners wouldn't care all that much...I wouldn't have when I was working
 
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From what I've read, the SS cap already "captures" something like 83-90% of all wage income, from year to year. So, would removing the cap entirely really make that much of a difference? I could see it helping somewhat, but in and of itself, I don't think it'll stop the draining.
In 1983, it was about 90%.

But the percentage of earnings covered by the tax max has fallen since the early 1980s because earnings among above-max earners have grown faster than earnings among the rest of the working population.

It's currently around 83%.
 
A few proposals I haven't seen:

Starting with say 40 year olds, a gradual reduction in beni's. Example: If you are 40 you get a 1% reduction, 39 yr olds get a 2% reduction, etc...

Something along those lines would be if you are 40 your #'s change to 63, 68 and 71. 35 yr olds go to 64, 69 and 72, etc...

Don't force people to take it at 70. There has to be at least a small % of high earners who definately don't need it and maybe wouldn't take it at 70 if they didn't have to.

Tax all income but have a few more bend points.

D.C. just needs to get creative and tackle this subject in a nonpartisan way. Not holding my breath.
 
Of course. But depending upon one's age, taking it at 62 in 2025 vs 70 in 2033 would be wise.
Maybe, maybe not.

Taking it at 62 in 2025 would result in a permanent haircut of around 44% under the current laws.
And in 2034, that would still be cut by a further 23% if the laws don't change.

"Wise" depends on many factors like need, longevity, spouse's situation, etc. This has all been beaten to death here and in other forums.
 
Don't force people to take it at 70. There has to be at least a small % of high earners who definately don't need it and maybe wouldn't take it at 70 if they didn't have to.
I assume you mean the benefits would continue to increase at 8% per year after 70?

(Nobody is forced to take any benefits ever.)

D.C. just needs to get creative and tackle this subject in a nonpartisan way. Not holding my breath.
I think it's wise not to hold your breath quite yet.
 
I think when the time comes they will take money out of the general fund...


From what I understand (and like always I can be wrong) is that it is the baby boom that is the main problem... if we use general funds to tide it over till we all die then that will fix the problem..


I just do not know how much that would be...
 
I think when the time comes they will take money out of the general fund...


From what I understand (and like always I can be wrong) is that it is the baby boom that is the main problem... if we use general funds to tide it over till we all die then that will fix the problem..


I just do not know how much that would be...

I can see the bumper sticker now:

SAVE SOCIAL SECURITY, KILL A BOOMER!
 
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What was the expansion when Social Security was overhauled most recently in 1983 (with about 3 months to spare before insolvency)? What kind of expansion do you envision?

See bullet points at https://www.ssa.gov/history/1983amend.html:

  • Increases benefits for disabled widows or widowers who become eligible for benefits before age 60.
  • Permits a divorced spouse age 62 or over who has been divorced for at least 2 years to draw spouse's benefits whether or not the former spouse who is eligible for retirement benefits has retired or applied for benefits.
  • Provides a different method for computing widows and widowers benefits that will increase benefits for many people whose spouses died before reaching age 62.
  • The law made other changes in Social Security, Medicare and Supplemental Security Income. For instance, it provided for an increase in SSI benefit rates beginning with July 1983 by $20 for an individual and $30 for a couple. Future automatic SSI cost-of-living increases will be made in January.

These are small increases and generally edge cases. I envision similar small and edge case additions with the next reform bill.
 
Anybody who is 8 years older than me has a FRA (66) a full year less than my FRA (67). But someone who is 56 years younger has the same FRA as me. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and will probably be addressed the next time SS is fixed.
 
Anybody who is 8 years older than me has a FRA (66) a full year less than my FRA (67). But someone who is 56 years younger has the same FRA as me. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and will probably be addressed the next time SS is fixed.

Why doesn't that make sense?

Anyone who is 1 year older than me gets a Senior Citizen discount at the movie theater.
But anyone who is 50 years younger than me pays the same as I do.

Does that make sense?
 
Maybe, maybe not.

Taking it at 62 in 2025 would result in a permanent haircut of around 44% under the current laws.
And in 2034, that would still be cut by a further 23% if the laws don't change.

My thinking is that one would get their normal age 62 benefit in 2025 for eight years before everyone got the 23% haircut in 2034. Haven't done the math but I think you'd come out ahead rather than wait for age 70 in 2033 and get the same 23% reduction.

Regardless, I view this as just another discussion along with the likes of acid rain, global cooling, oil shortage and over population all of which were supposed to have us all in dire straights by now but never materialized.

Just MHO
 
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Why doesn't that make sense?

Anyone who is 1 year older than me gets a Senior Citizen discount at the movie theater.
But anyone who is 50 years younger than me pays the same as I do.

Does that make sense?


Because somebody born today is likely to live a lot longer than me and therefore receive more benefits.
 
My thinking is that one would get their normal age 62 benefit in 2025 for eight years before everyone got the 23% haircut in 2034. Haven't done the math but I think you'd come out ahead rather than wait for age 70 in 2033 and get the same 23% reduction.

Regardless, I view this as just another discussion along with the likes of acid rain, global cooling, oil shortage and over population all of which were supposed to have us all in dire straights by now but never materialized.

Just MHO


Agreed. I think significant changes for the younger crowd who aren't paying attention are more likely than a big haircut for us older folks. When they last fixed the system 30+ years ago, I was a 20-something and SS was not even on my radar screen.
 
Regardless, I view this as just another discussion along with the likes of acid rain, global cooling, oil shortage and over population all of which were supposed to have us all in dire straights by now but never materialized.

I'm not sure where you heard the "by now" part.
Just remember - never is a long time.
 
If Unemployment rates are actually so low, shouldn't that also increase the pool of payers into SS?

Wait until the unemployment rates go to above 8%. You cannot send immigrants back to their original countries after the good days.
 
My thinking is that one would get their normal age 62 benefit in 2025 for eight years before everyone got the 23% haircut in 2034. Haven't done the math but I think you'd come out ahead rather than wait for age 70 in 2033 and get the same 23% reduction.

Regardless, I view this as just another discussion along with the likes of acid rain, global cooling, oil shortage and over population all of which were supposed to have us all in dire straights by now but never materialized.

Just MHO

I actually wrote to Mike Piper in July suggesting that he include an option to reduce benefits beginning in a specific year for a specified percentage in calculating the EPVs in opensocialsecurity.com. He responded that a number of people requested that. I just checked and see that he has added that functionality so you can do with and without comparisons.

Thank you Mike!

I just tested it and under the optimal strategy DW would file a 4 months earlier and I would file 15 months earlier and our EPV of benefits would be 9.5% lower if benefits decrease 23% beginning in 2034.
 
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I actually wrote to Mike Piper suggesting that he include an option to reduce benefits beginning in a specific year for a specified percentage in calculating the PVs in opensocialsecurity.com. He responded that a number of people requested that. I just checked and see that he has added that functionality so you can do with and without comparisons.

Thank you Mike!

+1. Thank you Mike! (And thank you PB4 for the suggestion)

Note: you need to select ‘Advanced Options’ in Mike’s SS calculator to discount your SS benefit.
 
I'm not sure where you heard the "by now" part.
Just remember - never is a long time.

Not going to belabor the point other than it seems that so many dire predictions just don't ever come to pass. (Fondly remember neighbors digging underground bomb shelters back in the 60's)

In this particular case, in 2034 I'll be 83 years old (my break even age!!) and should I be so lucky, I'll be thrilled just to be alive to get the haircut.
 
When the cashless SS Trust Fund runs out of its special bonds, the options for Congress and the president will basically be the same as they were before. The only difference from before is the "do-nothing," or default option will change.


Those options are:


(1) Raise SS taxes.


(2) Raise other taxes.


(3) Borrow money from outside the government.


(4) Cut SS benefits, whether it is through the benefit formula, across-the-board cuts, or raising the retirement age, to name a few.


(5) Cut other government services.




Once SS stopped taking in more than it paid out off and on in the last 10 years, thereby adding to the budget deficit instead of decreasing it, Congress and the President have chosen #3. But once the SS Trust Fund becomes exhausted, the "do-nothing" option will be #4. This could easily morph back into #3 to maintain the status quo.


As to what my preferred options are, I'll suggest this:


(1) increase taxation of SS benefits but index the current tax brackets, as they have not been changed.


(2) Do not increase the wage cap without increasing benefits. Keep that link, even if somewhat tenuous, intact. Or better yet, don't touch either one beyond current indexing. I would prefer a general increase of the FICA tax rate.


(3) I would raise the (full) retirement age to not more than 68, phasing it like before, but not in a way which affects anyone previously affected by the 1983 change. That is, don't move the goalposts twice for those who already had them moved once.


When I was more active with the Concord Coalition back in the late 1990s and early 2000s, we had this game called "Just Generations." It was a game where small groups of participants would come to consensus as to how to solve the long-term budget deficit. One thing we were mindful of, and was scored in our menu of options, was how they affected younger people versus older ones. We tried to balance the pain out among the two age groups.
 
From what I understand (and like always I can be wrong) is that it is the baby boom that is the main problem... if we use general funds to tide it over till we all die then that will fix the problem..
Unfortunately, no.

The WWII generation had about 3 kids per couple. The boomers had 2. The expectation is that future generations will continue with 2 and will not return to 3.

In addition, the retirees are living longer.

Note that the ratios in this table do not improve with time:

https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2018/IV_B_LRest.html#493869
 
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