SS for surviving spouse

[steady saver]

I was having dinner with my sister and BIL last night and she announced that she'd be taking SS next year when she turns 62 and her husband who is a year younger will take it when he's 62. BIL said that if he dies, she will be entitled to 50%. I get all of that.
But is there any kind of offset, given that she is taking hers earlier?
It seems to me (though I didn't offer my opinion) that if he could wait until FRA of 67, she'd be in a much better position, correct? I wouldn't say that they "need" the money, only that they spend a fair amount and she'd like the money now. Hers doesn't amount to a huge amount so I'm just curious how that all pans out.
Anyone have more insight than I do? And obviously, they can do whatever they want. I'm more curious than anything.

 

[FiveDriver]

Following this thread.

I think your BIL is being short sighted here. The general Theorem on Social Security is 'If you don't actually need it.....don't start your claim' with the Corollary 'Unless Congress starts ranting about Wasteful Entitlement Programs'.

 

[MarieIG]

Some couples have the higher earner postpone taking SS until age 70 to maximize the benefit for the surviving spouse. That is our current plan.

 

[ivinsfan]

What does if he dies she will be entitled to 50% mean in this context?

 

[MarieIG]

What does if he dies she will be entitled to 50% mean in this context?

She gets "one" benefit. She can switch to his, if it is higher.

 

[ivinsfan]

She gets "one" benefit. She can switch to his, if it is higher.

I know that but not sure what the OP means by it..that what I was asking them.

 

[skyking1]

She gets "one" benefit. She can switch to his, if it is higher.

This is it. Many people still have the misconception that it is something more than that for a surviving spouse.
We happen to have nearly identical FRA and I am 4 years older, so it is simple for us.

 

[euro]

Some couples have the higher earner postpone taking SS until age 70 to maximize the benefit for the surviving spouse. That is our current plan.

Same here - seems to be the most sensical way for us.

 

[oldtimer]

Suggest one use opensocialsecurity.com to determine timing recommendations. Be sure to click the select here box to adjust to match your specific criteria. The heat map at the bottom of the recommendation even lets one do quick starting SS what ifs by clicking on different the graphic.

If one wants to better understand how the SS benefit amount is calculated, then go to ssa.tools. It lets one copy and paste their work history from their SSA online account and it explains with words and diagrams how the PIA calculations work.

 

[mystang52]

The primary reason I deferred was for the higher survivor benefit when I predecease DW (a virtual certainty).

 

[FiveDriver]

So, does the surviving spouse get the hubby's PIA (benefit amount at FRA), or hubby's amount as of his last year of claim??

 

[skyking1]

His last year of claim, so waiting until 70 maximizes the benefit.

 

[FiveDriver]

That's what I thought....which is why I said BIL is being 'short sighted' with his strategy.

 

[MissMolly]

His last year of claim, so waiting until 70 maximizes the benefit.

And only if the survivor waits until their own full retirement age to claim the Survivor benefit. Otherwise they will receive a reduced amount.

 

[pb4uski]

I was having dinner with my sister and BIL last night and she announced that she'd be taking SS next year when she turns 62 and her husband who is a year younger will take it when he's 62. BIL said that if he dies, she will be entitled to 50%. I get all of that.
But is there any kind of offset, given that she is taking hers earlier?
It seems to me (though I didn't offer my opinion) that if he could wait until FRA of 67, she'd be in a much better position, correct? I wouldn't say that they "need" the money, only that they spend a fair amount and she'd like the money now. Hers doesn't amount to a huge amount so I'm just curious how that all pans out.
Anyone have more insight than I do? And obviously, they can do whatever they want. I'm more curious than anything.

Not sure what the bolded part means, but it is misinformed. If they both take at 62 and later one of them dies then the surviving spouse will receive the higher of their two benefits based on them taking at 62.

IOW, the discount for taking at 62 will be crystalized forever under their plan to both take at 62.

I agree with the poster encouraging them to use opensocialsecurity.com.

If you had a married couple born in April 1962 each with a $1,000 PIA then the optimal solution would be to have the first spouse wait until 65/4 and the other to 70. If they both take at 62 then the actuarial present value of their SS benefits is 8% lower.... $27,786 for each $1,000/month of PIA. (Uses 2017 CSO Nonsmoker preferred mortality tables).

In many cases, this is a big decision. They should educate themselves about it before making any decisions.

Do they have retirement savings so they can afford to wait or do they not have a choice? If they don't have a choice then it isn't worth wasting breath on it.

https://opensocialsecurity.com/?add...eathAge=100&children=false&numberOfChildren=0

 

[RetMD21]

These are examples of the benefits that survivors may receive:

Surviving spouse, full retirement age or older — 100% of the deceased worker's benefit amount.
Surviving spouse, age 60 — through full retirement age — 71½ to 99% of the deceased worker's basic amount.

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/ifyou.html#survivors

Are they confusing spousal and survivor benefits? Still they aren't right/

 

[steady saver]

I know that but not sure what the OP means by it..that what I was asking them.

Sorry, I have been driving all day. Yes, that is what I meant. Just acknowledging there that as a general rule, the surviving spouse gets 50% of deceased spouse's SS.

What I had wondered and subsequently figured out was that if BIL did indeed take SS at 62, that it reduces what the surviving spouse gets...more like 32-37%.

As it turns out, BIL is planning to take his at FRA so problem solved.

Thank you all for your responses.

 

[steady saver]

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/ifyou.html#survivors

Are they confusing spousal and survivor benefits? Still they aren't right/

YES! THIS!
I'm afraid the more I read, the more confused I am because I get confused when between spousal and survivor benefits.

I understand that if a person decides to take SS before full retirement age, that those benefits are reduced. But is there a difference between what a spouse might get and what a "surviving" spouse get?

Case in point.
1) Say a spouse dies after taking SS at full-retirement age but the spouse is younger. Does the surviving spouse the the full 50%?

2) Say both are the same age but the higher earned passes away before reaching FRA. I know that drawing SS before FRA (and alive)reduces the amount paid and subsequently reduces the amount a surviving spouse gets. But at what point does a surviving spouse not even get the full 50% of whatever is paid

 

[MissMolly]

YES! THIS!
I'm afraid the more I read, the more confused I am because I get confused when between spousal and survivor benefits.

I understand that if a person decides to take SS before full retirement age, that those benefits are reduced. But is there a difference between what a spouse might get and what a "surviving" spouse get?

Case in point.
1) Say a spouse dies after taking SS at full-retirement age but the spouse is younger. Does the surviving spouse the the full 50%?

2) Say both are the same age but the higher earned passes away before reaching FRA. I know that drawing SS before FRA (and alive)reduces the amount paid and subsequently reduces the amount a surviving spouse gets. But at what point does a surviving spouse not even get the full 50% of whatever is paid

You are still confused. When talking about Survivor benefits 50% never comes into play. Ever. The main takeaway on Survivor benefits is: as long as the survivor waits until they are full retirement age before they claim Survivor benefits, they will receive 100% of the deceased's benefit, regardless of when they claimed their own benefit. The key is waiting until full retirement age to claim Survivor benefit. If they claim Survivor benefit prior to their full retirement age it will be a reduced amount. As was stated earlier in post #16:

These are examples of the benefits that survivors may receive:

Surviving spouse, full retirement age or older — 100% of the deceased worker's benefit amount.
Surviving spouse, age 60 — through full retirement age — 71½ to 99% of the deceased worker's basic amount.

 

[ivinsfan]

Sorry, I have been driving all day. Yes, that is what I meant. Just acknowledging there that as a general rule, the surviving spouse gets 50% of deceased spouse's SS.

What I had wondered and subsequently figured out was that if BIL did indeed take SS at 62, that it reduces what the surviving spouse gets...more like 32-37%.

As it turns out, BIL is planning to take his at FRA so problem solved.

Thank you all for your responses.

FYI some of your info isn't correct....however since this pertains to someone else its a good thing for you to do some reading just for yourself ...


I see Miss Molly wrote it out for you, she has more patience then I do.

 

[steady saver]

Thank you Miss Molly. That is clear and helpful.

And ivansfan, I'm guessing that Miss Molly has more patience than I as well, ha.

Appreciate you both!

 

[RetMD21]

FYI some of your info isn't correct....however since this pertains to someone else its a good thing for you to do some reading just for yourself ...


I see Miss Molly wrote it out for you, she has more patience then I do.

All you can do is try. I liked the Mike Piper book Social Security Made Simple. About 100 pages. Corrected my misconceptions

 

[steady saver]

All you can do is try. I liked the Mike Piper book Social Security Made Simple. About 100 pages. Corrected my misconceptions

Thank you RetMD21. Super helpful. I’ll look that up and get a copy.

 

[Fermion]

Suggest one use opensocialsecurity.com to determine timing recommendations. Be sure to click the select here box to adjust to match your specific criteria. The heat map at the bottom of the recommendation even lets one do quick starting SS what ifs by clicking on different the graphic.

If one wants to better understand how the SS benefit amount is calculated, then go to ssa.tools. It lets one copy and paste their work history from their SSA online account and it explains with words and diagrams how the PIA calculations work.

I get some really weird numbers from that opensocialsecurity site, numbers which do not seem to be correct.

 

[pb4uski]

Given the amount of use it has received, I'm guessing it is a garbage in/garbage out situation rather than a problem with the site.

Care to elaborate?