Anyone use Ameriprise for investing help?

[OldShooter]

DrRoy: Anyone who assumes that you should pay 1/3 of your returns for financial advice is not a very good negotiator.

The sad thing is that the clients of this type of FA are very unlikely to be good negotiators.

My guy is making me money faster than I can spend it.

That says nothing, of course, about whether he is doing a good job or not. Lots of assets, low spending, a dart-throwing monkey could give you your result. And, actually, the dart-throwing monkeys usually beat the hotshot money managers anyway.

 

[Momcpa]

Original poster here: We had/have been with the current guy 6 1/2 years. We have been VERY happy with him. Yes, we could do some of it ourselves, but it's our trade-off in our busy, hectic, over-scheduled life. Our excuse, if you will, or our personal choice. We understand that we are paying him to manage our investments.

In that time, we have reaped the benefits of his help. We meet with him at least quarterly and have phone contact whenever a question comes up. I've read all of your responses and appreciate the time everyone took to add your comments. And that is what I was looking for: the good and/or the bad.

I guess my initial thought is: in the past we never felt that we were investing in, or relying on his institution's or his affiliation's advice, but more a connection with him. We are still deciding, but will probably follow him for the time being. It's our money and I definitely know that we can always opt out.......from Ameriprise, and from him.

Thanks again for your time.

 

[OldShooter]

... I definitely know that we can always opt out.......from Ameriprise, and from him. ...

Be very careful to avoid purchasing investments that are proprietary to Ameriprise and cannot be transferred to another firm. This is a common technique in many firms for locking clients in.

Also, I'll repeat my and others' advice that you run a brokercheck.com on him and that you get assurances in writing that he will be acting as a fiduciary in all aspects of your relationship. Those two are basic fireproofing steps.

Good luck!

 

[Another Reader]

Original poster here: We had/have been with the current guy 6 1/2 years. We have been VERY happy with him. Yes, we could do some of it ourselves, but it's our trade-off in our busy, hectic, over-scheduled life. Our excuse, if you will, or our personal choice. We understand that we are paying him to manage our investments.

In that time, we have reaped the benefits of his help. We meet with him at least quarterly and have phone contact whenever a question comes up. I've read all of your responses and appreciate the time everyone took to add your comments. And that is what I was looking for: the good and/or the bad.

I guess my initial thought is: in the past we never felt that we were investing in, or relying on his institution's or his affiliation's advice, but more a connection with him. We are still deciding, but will probably follow him for the time being. It's our money and I definitely know that we can always opt out.......from Ameriprise, and from him.

Thanks again for your time.

What rate of return on your investments, net of fees, have you earned in the six and a half years? If you don't know, take the time to figure that out. You may be paying him and getting poor investment performance as well.

 

[travelover]

Be very careful to avoid purchasing investments that are proprietary to Ameriprise and cannot be transferred to another firm. This is a common technique in many firms for locking clients in............

+1. Ameriprise is a little like Hotel California, you can check out but never leave...or at least not leave without substantial charges. I don't know if you did a search here, but several people have laid it out in ugly detail.

 

[target2019]

In-laws had a special FA from the church. Nice guy until he wasn't.
OldShooter is right about some investments not being transferable. High fees and then you pay a trading fee to liquidate.

Of course it is anyone's right to stay put and pay some of the highest fund fees, or follow the guy who takes over 25% of the real return.

 

[RobbieB]

I had no problem, I said sell it all and send me the dough.

 

[RunningBum]

I had no problem, I said sell it all and send me the dough.

If it's in a retirement account (no capital gains concerns), it's certainly as easy as that. If it's in a taxable account, one might have tax concerns if it's a large CG to deal with.

 

[RobbieB]

Nah, it was in a regular account. Sat there for years and did nothing. So I fired Ameriprise and told them to send me the dough.

 

[Another Reader]

Nah, it was in a regular account. Sat there for years and did nothing. So I fired Ameriprise and told them to send me the dough.

Another warning for the OP...

 

[pb4uski]

Original poster here: We had/have been with the current guy 6 1/2 years. We have been VERY happy with him. Yes, we could do some of it ourselves, but it's our trade-off in our busy, hectic, over-scheduled life. Our excuse, if you will, or our personal choice. We understand that we are paying him to manage our investments.

In that time, we have reaped the benefits of his help. We meet with him at least quarterly and have phone contact whenever a question comes up. I've read all of your responses and appreciate the time everyone took to add your comments. And that is what I was looking for: the good and/or the bad.

I guess my initial thought is: in the past we never felt that we were investing in, or relying on his institution's or his affiliation's advice, but more a connection with him. We are still deciding, but will probably follow him for the time being. It's our money and I definitely know that we can always opt out.......from Ameriprise, and from him.

Thanks again for your time.

As a retired CPA my advice would be to leave your money with whateve broker it is currently with and get a new FA. You don't want to get into bed with them.

 

[Rustward]

1% of assets per year is a very typical fee for FA’s. 3 to 4% for a WR is also very typical. The ratio is just math.

But some people get financial advice for much much much less than 1%.

I am one of them.

But many people overpay for lots of things. And I would suggest from reading here that many here do not completely understand how some financial products work. They know (or think they know) mostly what they have read here, which is not exactly objective. It is very one-sided.

We had one poster that was convinced they had a wrap account, but from the description, the account had none of the characteristics of a wrap account.

Now I am not defending Ameriprise or any of the other big houses. I think their fees are way too high and their product selection too narrow.

I knew a guy whose job was outsourced to another employer. He was terminated by the old employer and hired by the new one. He was given a check for the balance of his deferred compensation plan at the old employer. He used the cash to buy (at the time) what was considered a new large luxury sedan. He did not care about the early withdrawal penalty or the income taxes, but he wanted the car because he had never bought a new car before because he could not afford it. Oh, and he never considered that he squandered his modest life savings. Years later I met his uncle and his uncle told me that the guy admitted making a big mistake. If he had invested his money, even with a 1% fee (which is much much higher than anybody should pay) just maybe he would be better off today. Duh!

 

[travelover]

......... Sat there for years and did nothing..........

What a terrific company. Look at all the taxes they saved you.

 

[Another Reader]

I hope the OP understands that when the FA transfers to Ameriprise, he will be required to sell Ameriprise products. The OP's existing investments will likely be liquidated and the proceeds invested into whatever Ameriprise is pushing, even if those investments were not what the FA recommended at his current employer.

In the OP's shoes, I would ask what the proposed investments are BEFORE agreeing to move and liquidate or transfer the current assets. Run the proposed investments by the folks here if you don't understand them. Then, if you still feel this is the right choice, go ahead.

 

[OHjosh]

Pb4uski: Yes, your factoid totally demolishes my statement. More to the point, it proves how stupid I am and in need of help, apparently. Of course I could have made more IF I had analyzed and understood the 1000’s of offerings, IF I picked the right vehicle (and only that one... bad diversification), and IF I did not suffer through the depression of 2007. (I assume that was included in your quote here?)

So many posters here remind me of people who hate doctors. There are a lot of bad docs out there and there are a lot of medical conditions where people can successfully apply (inexpensive) home treatment. But this assumes of course that the person knows his/her medical issue and chooses the correct medicaments. There is a possibility that one or both are not the case. There is even the possibility that not treating the condition early enough or even treating the real condition will create bigger problems down the line.

I think many posters forget that this is a very rarefied group of savvy and also, lucky people. Anti-advisor people harp about the fees and the upside that could have been had. How about the downside of going it yourself? Many of my friends lost their shirts (their aXXes), investing their retirement funds all in dot.com companies. Others took an enormous hit in 2007 because they were not diversified. Some of those people compounded their losses by liquidating in panic. Others I know spent their salaries and pensions and 401ks on "stuff", with no one to give them a contrary viewpoint.

Perhaps I doubt myself too much, but retirement planning requires analytical investing savvy, tax knowledge and all sorts of discipline at different times. I still think the drawing on the expertise of people who have seen hundreds of people carrying out and succeeding (or failing) in their retirement has some value. Value worth paying (a little) for. But one must find a capable and honest professional, ask a lot of questions, and remember that ultimately it is his/her life and responsibility.

 

[pb4uski]

.... Perhaps I doubt myself too much....

Yes, it seems that you do.

Pb4uski: Yes, your factoid totally demolishes my statement. More to the point, it proves how stupid I am and in need of help, apparently. Of course I could have made more IF I had analyzed and understood the 1000’s of offerings, IF I picked the right vehicle (and only that one... bad diversification), and IF I did not suffer through the depression of 2007. (I assume that was included in your quote here?) ...

I assume that you are referring to post #10.

No need to analyze 1000s of offerings.... could do it with as few as two index funds. Vanguard, Fido and all the big houses offer them.... since they are index funds and hold the entire market they are automatically diversified and not concentrated in dot.coms or whatever the hot sector of the day is. We are a buy and hold through thick and thin crowd.

Buying and holding low-cost index funds is no secret... Money magazine and the financial press have been advocating that since the 1980s.... Warren Buffett has famously advocated that for his wife once Warren is pushing up daisies.

See https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/couch-potato-investing/ and https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio

 

[Walt34]

On another thread someone asked for "starter books" on investing. I'll repost my list here. This stuff is not rocket science. It's grade school arithmetic:

The books I found most helpful are these:

The Millionaire Teacher by Andrew Hallam

How a Second Grader Beats Wall Street by Allan S. Roth

If you don’t read anything else read these two. They are easy reading.

I also have read these:

Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely – I found this very interesting! For example, people will almost always say that coffee served from a silver service into fine china cups tastes better than coffee served from a glass pot into a styrofoam cup even though the coffee was brewed in the same pot.

The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas J. Stanley and William D. Danko. This is a classic and although the numbers are somewhat dated the principles most definitely are not.

The Four Pillars of Investing by William J. Bernstein

Why Smart People Make Big Money Mistakes by Gary Belsky & Thomas Gilovich

Your Money & Your Brain by Jason Zweig

The Investor’s Manifesto - Preparing for Prosperity, Armageddon, and Everything in Between by William J. Bernstein

A Random Walk Down Wall Street by Burton G. Malkiel – Updated frequently, this is a classic and a must-read

And if you really want to get deep into behavior issues with money– Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman, the only psychologist to win a Nobel Prize in Economics. I found it fascinating. It’s also a rather thick book. It is less about money than it is about why people make decisions the way they do.

 

[braumeister]

In 2009 after getting laid off I actually interviewed with Ameriprise for a job. In the interviews I had and the training that I received I was basically appalled at their approaches to investing. Everything had fees (and pretty high fees at that), try to have the investor move EVERYTHING to them, and sell the most obtuse stuff there was.


No way in heck would I trust my money to them.

This post should be required reading for anyone considering using Ameriprise.

 

[REWahoo]

^ To add to the above, I once worked with a former Ameriprise advisor who left them because he could not sell the products they required him to push in good conscience.

 

[RobbieB]

I still use asset based fee FA's, just not Ameriprise.

 

[target2019]

It is rather funny that intelligent people have a brain melt down when considering managing their own investments. From early age, for example, women are probably taught that it is a job for men, it's complicated, etc.
To the next Ameriprise victim to come along, I'll look for a single book that can be used to self-educate and set a simple portfolio.
Maybe this book would get ye there.

The Charles Schwab Guide to Finances After Fifty: Answers to Your Most ...
By Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz, Joanne Cuthbertson
https://books.google.com/books?id=-...q0Q6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=carrie schwab&f=false

 

[Rustward]

The sad thing is that the clients of this type of FA are very unlikely to be good negotiators.


That says nothing, of course, about whether he is doing a good job or not. Lots of assets, low spending, a dart-throwing monkey could give you your result. And, actually, the dart-throwing monkeys usually beat the hotshot money managers anyway.

OldShooter, I have read most of your posts and I must admit that I think you are on the high side of the objectivity scale. IOW: Your stuff makes a lot of sense. Thank you for your posts and your insight.

Not every investor is concerned with getting the last 0.000000001% of return. In our case, we have much greater concerns than whether we get a 10.0% return or a 10.5% return. I don't know if we are typical, (probably not) but it is very unlikely that we will ever run out of money over our lifetimes, so return is not our greatest concern. I hope I did not jinx our futures by saying that.

There are just so many different situations, that there is no "one size fits all" solution.

 

[travelover]

...........There are just so many different situations, that there is no "one size fits all" solution.

True, but that doesn't make Ameriprise a good choice for anyone. Which just happens to be the topic here.

 

[MrLoco]

I am in the despised minority here, but not everyone is a financial expert nor wishes to be. I am an MBA and yet I did not feel I could do this job alone (in my non-existent spare time).

I have been with Ameriprise for 23 years now, with two different advisors. They took my initial portfolio of about $250K (invested in the same type of investment 15 times!) and developed a diversified plan for me. I have been a more knowledgeable part of that planning and management as it progressed. And I had the final say-- and responsibility for same.

I retired two years ago and have taken out about $80,000 over all.
The investment portion of my nest egg is $700K today. If I did FV correctly, that is about a 5% return. It certainly would have been better if not for the 2007 debacle. Of course, someone else here could do it themselves and do it better. I know I could not.

To the OP: In my mind the change in firms is not important-- it is the capability and trust you have in your advisor AND his integrity that is critical. And you need to keep reading (even the postings of the sometimes disdainful gurus here)... and ask questions of your guy/gal. Pointed questions where need be.

Ohjosh....To echo what anther poster stated...you are NOT despised here. I have found this forum, over many others, to be a great educational tool. None of us knows everything about investing, but we can learn from one another. We all face many of the same and different challenges as we stumble forward trying to understand the many different facets of investing for retirement. Bouncing ideas and solutions off each other is what this forum is all about.


Do what you feel is best and good luck to you.

 

[ERD50]

True, but that doesn't make Ameriprise a good choice for anyone. Which just happens to be the topic here.

Good point.

Originally Posted by OHjosh I am in the despised minority here, but not everyone is a financial expert nor wishes to be. I am an MBA and yet I did not feel I could do this job alone (in my non-existent spare time).

Ohjosh....To echo what anther poster stated...you are NOT despised here. I have found this forum, over many others, to be a great educational tool. ....

Agree, not despised - people here do try to educate posters on the issue, that's all.


Slightly off-topic, and I'm not picking on poster OHjosh here, just using that bolded line for reference - can anyone tell me what 'logical fallacy' this falls into? Maybe 'logical fallacy' isn't quite the right term either. But I see a lot of discussions where someone starts out with a claim about how their group is vilified, or that something like 'of course, the majority here will disagree', or ' there will always be haters', etc.

It's kind of a "straw man" I guess, but seems a bit different to me. Is there a term for that technique? Anyone? It just feels like a set up and a distraction, that they are a victim or something, and should be treated different? Just present your case, don't tell us we hate you, we don't, and love/hate doesn't change facts anyway.

-ERD50