Overtourism

[Teacher Terry]

My kids just went to the Grand Canyon and said it was very busy and full of Chinese people. My husband and I went in November, 2007 and very few people at all. Back in 2008 when at the Vatican we got there very early to be one of the first in line. That was crowded.

 

[MRG]

My kids just went to the Grand Canyon and said it was very busy and full of Chinese people. My husband and I went in November, 2007 and very few people at all. Back in 2008 when at the Vatican we got there very early to be one of the first in line. That was crowded.

The whole canyon? Wow.

 

[aja8888]

The whole canyon? Wow.

I'll bet not a drop in the bucket compared to the population of China!

 

[NW-Bound]

I will remember to ask my brother and his wife about the Grand Canyon. They just did a hike down recently. Off topic, but some in their group did a non-stop rim-to-rim hike, and a couple of the strongest ones did a rim-to-rim-to-rim non-stop hike. I bet no hordes of any kind there!

But back on crowded European spots, while we were in line in Lisbon for Tram 28 (we woke up early one morning to be among the first), we chatted with a young German woman from Frankfurt. I forgot how much she paid for airfare, but she went for a short few days of vacation pretty cheap. We tend to forget that for Europeans, it is the same as us catching a cheap flight to SF or Oakland to go to Napa for a weekend. And we would have to rent a car, when she did not have to do that.

More than 12 years ago, in Prague we saw tons of Brits who went there for the weekend or a few nights. Ryanair got them there and back cheaply.

 

[ElizabethT]

One thing I think would go far in improving the situation in popular museums is to simply institute a 'no photos' policy. Such a simple solution it seems to me!

I have seen and experienced the most obnoxious behavior with regard to photo taking in museums, including places like Versaille. I wonder what percentage of tourists would skip these sites altogether if, heaven forbid, a photo to post to social media showing they were there couldn't be done?

 

[ElizabethT]

Y

My kids just went to the Grand Canyon and said it was very busy and full of Chinese people. My husband and I went in November, 2007 and very few people at all. Back in 2008 when at the Vatican we got there very early to be one of the first in line. That was crowded.

The whole canyon? Wow.

I am ever so thankful that hiking just one measly mile will generally put me away from most visitors in our national and state properties. And three or more miles of hiking? Hello solitude!

Getting into the parks, and/or out onto trailheads before 8am also works.

 

[audreyh1]

One thing I think would go far in improving the situation in popular museums is to simply institute a 'no photos' policy. Such a simple solution it seems to me!

I have seen and experienced the most obnoxious behavior with regard to photo taking in museums, including places like Versaille. I wonder what percentage of tourists would skip these sites altogether if, heaven forbid, a photo to post to social media showing they were there couldn't be done?

There are a lot of museums with no photos policies, at least in certain areas, and it really does help when crowded.

 

[NW-Bound]

I have to admit that I like to take snapshots, just to remind myself of where I have been. And it's just a pocket camera, and I try to be very quick, not taking minutes to frame something just right. Just 2 seconds, one click, then I am done.

I still remember a hilarious scene in front of the Cologne Cathedral. An Asian woman wanted her husband to take a photo of her in front of that church. And there was no way the poor guy could fit the 515-ft high church into the frame with his wife, despite bending down to the ground as low as he could. As at most churches in Europe, the square in front is small, and you cannot back away enough to capture the ground and the top of the spires too, and particularly with this church which is among the highest in the world.

The husband kept trying and showing the results to his wife who was not happy, and who kept sending him back to crouch lower and lower, while she posed again and again.

After about 5 or 6 trials, she walked away in disgust, while the shunned husband stood there, dejected. The poor guy just could not please his demanding wife for that perfect photo.

If he had a fish-eye lens, he could fit his wife and the entire cathedral in a shot, but I am sure the wife would not be happy with seeing herself in a photo with that lens.

 

[Cessna152]

To really get away from the crowds when traveling during retirement...

 

[Nemo2]

We were in Europe last April. Although, it is still off-season, it is still very crowded in Venice, Rome, Paris, Bruges, Amsterdam, Berlin. I can't image in-season.

Overtourism is real.

We were in Valencia for a day in 2017.....crisscrossing mass retinues of lemmings, each behind their Lollipop waving guides.....no thank you.

 

[Chuckanut]

We were in Europe last April. Although, it is still off-season, it is still very crowded in Venice, Rome, Paris, Bruges, Amsterdam, Berlin. I can't image in-season.

Overtourism is real.

In popular places such as the cities named above, the off season is rather short, IMHO. January, February and March.

My last trip to Prague in March was still crowded though not as badly as summer. April in Krakow and Budapest was busy, but again much more tolerable than the summer.

We need another good world wide recession. Then travel opportunities will be easier to find.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Y



I am ever so thankful that hiking just one measly mile will generally put me away from most visitors in our national and state properties. And three or more miles of hiking? Hello solitude!

Getting into the parks, and/or out onto trailheads before 8am also works.

We had a pleasant visit to the north rim of the canyon seven or eight years ago. Tourism there is more sparse, and light pollution is much less. The park had a volunteer with a telescope offering stargazing opportunities. Very nice.

 

[Gumby]

My kids just went to the Grand Canyon and said it was very busy and full of Chinese people. My husband and I went in November, 2007 and very few people at all. Back in 2008 when at the Vatican we got there very early to be one of the first in line. That was crowded.

We went to the Grand Canyon at the end of January 1985. It was well below zero and the snow was piled high. We were the only ones there. The only ones at the hotel outside the gate and the only ones in the South Kaibab visitors center. The only other person we saw was a ranger on a mule coming up out of the canyon as we were walking down. He took one look at our lack of proper gear and told us to turn right back around.

That was the greatest trip to a tourist attraction ever - having the entire Grand Canyon to ourselves. We can never go back now.

 

[marko]

We need another good world wide recession. Then travel opportunities will be easier to find.

But then people will have even more time to travel!! IIRC the early winter of '09 was the busiest for ski resorts I could remember; everyone was laid off!

But I don't know. Having lived in downtown Paris I really can't remember a time over the years when the Louvre, Notre Dame, Eiffel Tower, Champs etc aren't mobbed with tourists. I'd imagine the same is true for Rome, Venice etc etc.

It seems to rotate over the years though from Americans to Japanese to Chinese to Germans and back around again as being the dominant demographic.

 

[Souschef]

One thing I think would go far in improving the situation in popular museums is to simply institute a 'no photos' policy. Such a simple solution it seems to me!

I have seen and experienced the most obnoxious behavior with regard to photo taking in museums, including places like Versaille. I wonder what percentage of tourists would skip these sites altogether if, heaven forbid, a photo to post to social media showing they were there couldn't be done?

I call those people vidiots and shutternuts.My DW was at the altar in St Peter's having a religious moment. She was rudely shoved aside by someone wanting to take a photo. She said, "If I was not in the holy of holys, I would have decked the jackass" And she would have.
I recently saw a cartoon of a selfie stick. The arrows pointed to the two ends. One arrow said Camera, the other arrow said Idiot

 

[MichaelB]

I wonder if Europeans felt this way when US tourist travel to Europe became much more common for middle class folk.

 

[NW-Bound]

We were in Valencia for a day in 2017.....crisscrossing mass retinues of lemmings, each behind their Lollipop waving guides.....no thank you.

I observe that people in tour groups often are afraid of being left behind or getting lost. Hence they may hustle in order to keep up, and appear rude.

But it was at Sintra recently that I observed that people who were cheating and cutting in line were middle-aged and older Caucasians or Europeans.
Disgusting! We did not see younger people doing that.

Oh man! Keep talking about this, and I will really have to look into traveling to some remote places. Svalbard Island? Seychelles? Or I can revisit Guam?

 

[Chuckanut]

My kids just went to the Grand Canyon and said it was very busy and full of Chinese people.

I went to Yellowstone a few years ago in late April. There were many large groups of Chinese tourists there. They were nice people, but the size of the groups in themselves made things difficult for others. For example, they took up most of the seating in the Visitor's Center. One fellow in his 50's was quite notable. He seemed to be the 'class clown' and even though I did not understand a word he said, his meanings were obvious. Like many large groups they mobbed the famous sites - Old Faithful and such - but a 1/4 mile hike from the trail head and the large groups were gone. I'm sure the local tourist businesses were glad they were there.

The only Chinese we saw after a walk of about 1/4 mile were family units. We surmised that the children were college students, and took advantage of their time in the USA to show their parents some of the country's famous sites.

IMHO, the number of people one encounters goes down exponentially with the distance from the parking lot.

 

[athena53]

There are a lot of museums with no photos policies, at least in certain areas, and it really does help when crowded.

Yes, I think that would help. It would also help to restrict cruise ships- I remember being in Bermuda in 1997 and there was some debate in the government about that- not sure if they were banned or restricted at the time. A mega-ship (or worse, multiple mega-ships in port) can disgorge enough passengers to overwhelm the daytime population and their average per-person spending isn't much since they don't pay for hotels and get most of their meals on the ship. A B&B owner in Ketchikan told me that allowing large numbers of cruise ships into a port was "a deal with the devil"- it totally changed the local economy.

 

[NW-Bound]

The only Chinese we saw after a walk of about 1/4 mile were family units. We surmised that the children were college students, and took advantage of their time in the USA to show their parents some of the country's famous sites...

Or perhaps they were US citizens from LA or SF?

 

[Nemo2]

Seychelles?

Was in the Seychelles in the mid 1980s....La Digue....before all the hotels sprang up.....no vehicles....OK for a couple weeks R&R.

 

[audreyh1]

Is the overcrowding due to Americans though? Others have said there's a large influx of Chinese.

I’ve seen a huge number of Chinese tourists in France and Austria.

Definitely contributed to my Versailles nightmare. Can’t believe they are so lax about fire codes.

 

[audreyh1]

We didn't like the d'Orsay, either. We were pretty much routed along a wall, behind people with iPads who would stop, take a photo of the painting, take a photo of the information panel, move on... that's not how to experience Impressionist paintings. One way is to start at the wall, but then back up and watch the picture emerge from the brush strokes. Impossible given the crowds. Fortunately I'd seen a podcast featuring an exhibit of Slovenian Impressionist paintings at a smaller museum (Le Petit Palais)- who knew there were Slovenian Impressionists?. We went over there and there were very few other tourists. It was wonderful. I was in Paris for a couple of days last October and mostly wandered. Beautiful weather, interesting architecture, people-watching. I loved it even though I missed the "must-see" spots.

We visited the Musee D’Orsay in May 2015. We went in the evening. It wasn’t so crowded and we got a good look at the paintings plus had a nice evening meal.

The Musee de l’Orangerie was the best. We got there right when it opened. We had it mostly to ourselves for the first hour. Had the murals to ourselves at times. It was lovely.

I skipped the Louvre, and now I’m glad I did. DH had been in the 70s and wasn’t enthusiastic to return, plus remarked about the Mona Lisa being small. We just got a combo ticket for the other two museums as we were more interested in impressionistic paintings.

 

[audreyh1]

I wonder if Europeans felt this way when US tourist travel to Europe became much more common for middle class folk.

I’m sure!

 

[Chuckanut]

It used to be the Ugly American. I think sometime in the 90's the Germans replaced us, or so my Italian and French friends say. Now, it's the Chinese. It must be tough to live in a museum country.