Can we play nice for a while?

[CardsFan]

There have been a few threads shut down here, most recently the New York Covid thread (at least it appears gone, and disappeared while I was posting to it).

I am as guilty as anyone of voicing my opinions, so, maybe we can tone it down a bit. We all want information. Many of us were (are) in technical positions. Data is (are?) what we dealt with.

Most of us don't have much data, we have opinions (based on maybe some data).

Anyway, just hoping we can continue the discussions w/o the politics and strong opinions.

For the record, I am Guilty as charged of violating the above request, and hope to do better in the future.

 

[Lakewood90712]

There have been a few threads shut down here, most recently the New York Covid thread (at least it appears gone, and disappeared while I was posting to it).

I am as guilty as anyone of voicing my opinions, so, maybe we can tone it down a bit. We all want information. Many of us were (are) in technical positions. Data is (are?) what we dealt with.

Most of us don't have much data, we have opinions (based on maybe some data).

Anyway, just hoping we can continue the discussions w/o the politics and strong opinions.

For the record, I am Guilty as charged of violating the above request, and hope to do better in the future.

Unfortunately you are on double secret probation, and inelegiable for the 2020 RE-Org retreat on Lanai

 

[CardsFan]

Unfortunately you are on double secret probation, and inelegiable for the 2020 RE-Org retreat on Lanai

But, I suppose I am still eligible for the 2021 retreat to Antarctica?

 

[aja8888]

Unfortunately you are on double secret probation, and inelegiable for the 2020 RE-Org retreat on Lanai

If he's still posting, he's still here.....(for now). LOL

 

[davebarnes]

“Can we play nice for a while?”
No.
This is too important.

 

[CardsFan]

“Can we play nice for a while?”
No.
This is too important.

Really? Too important to actually be nice?

I guess i'll watch for a while.

Maybe read Animal Farm.

Or

Lord of the Flies.

Have fun.

 

[target2019]

Really? Too important to actually be nice?

I guess i'll watch for a while.

Maybe read Animal Farm.

Or

Lord of the Flies.

Have fun.

I found a new idea in an article about social media. Basically, I don't have to respond to every one, every one's thought, and so on. It has helped me to recall this now and then.

For some part of the public, a plea to "be nice" or "be best" has become a dog whistle for just the opposite behavior.

This will be an interesting thread, so thanks for starting it.

 

[CaptTom]

I'm always in favor of being nice.

But in the words of Gautama Buddha:

If a viper lives in your room and you wish to have a peaceful sleep, you must first chase it out.

If someone posts something from a source known to sow hatred, partisanship and false information, is it "not nice" to question it?

I'd really like to hear other's opinions. I am actually very conflicted over this.

Turning the other cheek is generally the right thing to do. But somehow it's become taboo to challenge hateful or harmful speech. Nobody wants an angry exchange, so we've all self-censored so as not to set the partisans off.

This can't be healthy. Respectful, reasoned debate following common-sense rules of behavior is a good thing.

 

[Amethyst]

The reason I don't debate with hateful/harmful on the Internet, is that it's like debating with a demented person. You cannot change what mind they possess. You are wasting your time that should be spent on living. They are enjoying being annoying.

If reasonable discourse were possible, I'd be all in favor.

I'm always in favor of being nice.

But in the words of Gautama Buddha:


If someone posts something from a source known to sow hatred, partisanship and false information, is it "not nice" to question it?

I'd really like to hear other's opinions. I am actually very conflicted over this.

Turning the other cheek is generally the right thing to do. But somehow it's become taboo to challenge hateful or harmful speech. Nobody wants an angry exchange, so we've all self-censored so as not to set the partisans off.

This can't be healthy. Respectful, reasoned debate following common-sense rules of behavior is a good thing.

 

[JoeWras]

I wish people would relax about news sources. Look, news wants clicks. They all need to be treated carefully. There's a lot of sensationalism from nearly every outlet I've read, left, right or other.

A few threads have gotten heated over someone quoting a news source, and then others going off on them for linking that source. We all know our news is polarized, OK? Let people quote and take it with whatever grain of salt is necessary. It isn't helpful to start politicizing it and going crazy over the source.

 

[travelover]

I've been thinking about this. It seems that this country has become so tribal that opinions on every new issue have to be categorized as either pro Red or pro Blue. If you are a good tribal member, you pay attention to the categorizations so you know how to feel about the issue and also have some talking points to post when the issue is raised on line.

 

[pb4uski]

I prefer pro Truth.... which means anything I read from either of the tribes is taken with a big grain of salt.

 

[stepford]

I prefer pro Truth.... which means anything I read from either of the tribes is taken with a big grain of salt.

How do you determine what this TRUTH is? Just using one's own judgement isn't enough as both left and right have now erected self-consistent news architectures which often contradict one another.

My personal take is to use nominally "trusted" news organizations on the left and right, like NPR/NYT vs WSJ (NOT MSNBC vs Fox). If something appears as a fact in such venues on both sides then it probably is. If something is presented as a fact by only one side and is entirely invisible on the other then it is suspect.

That works for me, but I'm genuinely interested in what others do. Just saying "I'm smart enough and have good enough critical thinking skills to know the truth" doesn't work anymore.

 

[brokrken]

I've been thinking about this. It seems that this country has become so tribal that opinions on every new issue have to be categorized as either pro Red or pro Blue. If you are a good tribal member, you pay attention to the categorizations so you know how to feel about the issue and also have some talking points to post when the issue is raised on line.

+1 When in debates with friends on both sides of the aisle, I often find myself defending positions that I don't even really believe in just to try and get them to consider the other argument. It's exhausting

 

[brewer12345]

Just add to your ignore list. I see some of my "favorites" are compelled to post on this thread and my stress levels are reduced by not reading their drivel.

 

[Chuckanut]

I think most people play nice. However, there are groups of people on both sides of various issues who feed off of our division and hostility towards those who have different points of view. It's time to starve them.

 

[Chuckanut]

+1 When in debates with friends on both sides of the aisle, I often find myself defending positions that I don't even really believe in just to try and get them to consider the other argument. It's exhausting

+1

Even worse I sometimes find myself seeming to defend certain politicians I really don't care for, because the other side's charges are so blatantly ridiculous.

 

[pb4uski]

.... Even worse I sometimes finding myself seeming to defend certain politicians I really don't care for, because the other side's charges are so blatantly ridiculous.

+1

 

[sengsational]

Ignoring is good, whether adding to your ignore list or just resisting the urge to comment.


When I'm reading here, I often see an obvious taunt or trollish post and think to myself "how nice it would be if nobody took the bait". I all too often give up on an otherwise promising thread when other posters just can't resist "setting him/her straight"

 

[Amethyst]

My rule is, if an argument seems to be appealing to my emotions or besetting sins (such as pride or envy), it's nothing but manipulation, and I won't play. If it seems logical, I may ask questions to explore further. If I get more logic and data, I may even start to change my mind.

I think most people play nice. However, there are groups of people on both sides of various issues who feed off of our division and hostility towards those who have different points of view. It's time to starve them.

 

[CaptTom]

I ran over my limit of multi quotes. It's easier to just say I agree with almost everything said so far, and it's a great discussion. Thanks to all!

But, what can we DO about it?

Ignoring it would be my instinctive reaction, but isn't that the same as condoning it?

How do you convince someone who is a loyal follower of a the screaming heads on the left or right that they're being jerked around like a puppet on a string? They each believe that everyone else is in some grand conspiracy against them, and they're defending some great secret that only a few initiates know.

This need to be the carrier of some secret none of your friends know is a deeply held human trait.

It reminds me of the early days of e-mail, when people believed there was a kid who could be saved by millions of get-well cards, or that Microsoft would give you money, if you just forwarded this e-mail to all of your contacts.

 

[sengsational]

Ignoring it is NOT like condoning it! If the ignore is complete, it's like a dagger to the heart of the trouble maker. Like children, some people will do anything to keep from being ignored. Good attention or bad attention, it doesn't matter.

 

[jimbee]

My rule is, if an argument seems to be appealing to my emotions or besetting sins (such as pride or envy), it's nothing but manipulation, and I won't play.

That's a tactic used by demagogues. The first part, not the I won't play part.

 

[Chuckanut]

llower of a the screaming heads on the left or right that they're being jerked around like a puppet on a string?

Screaming heads..... I like that description. I goes well with "merchants of outrage". Thanks.

 

[Amethyst]

They are well-worn tactics of advertising, the devil, and the town gossip.

That's a tactic used by demagogues. The first part, not the I won't play part.