Reason to be wary for those asymptomatic?

[explanade]

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...-dont-fully-understand-the-label-asymptomatic


Not sure how you can have lung scarring or impairment without say coughing or reduced blood oxygen, unless people are dismissing mild or difficult to see symptoms.

Of course the other part of it is that people without symptoms or before they show symptoms may still be very infectious.

 

[audreyh1]

Yes - you can not realize you are sick, but still get some lung damage, according to reports I have read recently.

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes - you can not realize you are sick, but still get some lung damage, according to reports I have read recently.

The more we find out about it the more mysterious it gets...it's a worthy adversary...it's causing so much anxiety. The brightest minds in the world are on it and we have to hope they are up to defeating it.

 

[audreyh1]

Yes, unfortunately, it’s seems to have such widespread and unpredictable effects on the human body, as well as being incredibly contagious.

 

[explanade]

87% of recovered covid patients exhibit symptoms 2 months after they supposedly recover.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1281341552942440448

 

[Moemg]

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...-dont-fully-understand-the-label-asymptomatic


Not sure how you can have lung scarring or impairment without say coughing or reduced blood oxygen, unless people are dismissing mild or difficult to see symptoms.

Of course the other part of it is that people without symptoms or before they show symptoms may still be very infectious.

Last fall I got pneumonia . I had no symptoms other than fatigue . I have an oximeter so I noticed my oxygen level was slightly down . So I can easily see how this would happen.

 

[tmm99]

Last fall I got pneumonia . I had no symptoms other than fatigue . I have an oximeter so I noticed my oxygen level was slightly down . So I can easily see how this would happen.

Wow, your exygen level was only slightly lower? With pneumonia? How low are you talking about? Low 90s? Like 92/93?

 

[Moemg]

My oxygen went into the low 90's and it even dropped to 88 . I noticed I was having a hard time at the gym . I went to my Doctor and had a chest x-ray . I had pneumonia . A week later I started coughing .

 

[audreyh1]

Glad I have my pulse oximeter handy!

 

[tmm99]

My oxygen went into the low 90's and it even dropped to 88 . I noticed I was having a hard time at the gym . I went to my Doctor and had a chest x-ray . I had pneumonia . A week later I started coughing .

Thank you for sharing. I bought an oximeter recently after reading a thread here about people who didn't know they were sick until they could no longer breathe one day. Mine is usually around 98-96, so I know low 90s is not good.

 

[tmm99]

My oxygen went into the low 90's and it even dropped to 88 . I noticed I was having a hard time at the gym . I went to my Doctor and had a chest x-ray . I had pneumonia . A week later I started coughing .

Thank you for sharing. I bought an oximeter recently after reading a thread here about people who didn't know they were sick until one day, they could no longer breathe. Mine is usually around 98-96, so I know low 90s is not good.

 

[explanade]

I have an oximeter too. Heard they're not accurate.

In fact one AZ doctor said that they take oxygen readings by putting a big needle into wrists of patients.

So I'm mainly hoping mine is consistent, that instead of giving absolute value accurately, I will be able to tell how much the O2 drops from the baseline I'm getting now, when I assume I'm not infected.

 

[EastWest Gal]

I have an oximeter too. Heard they're not accurate.

In fact one AZ doctor said that they take oxygen readings by putting a big needle into wrists of patients.

So I'm mainly hoping mine is consistent, that instead of giving absolute value accurately, I will be able to tell how much the O2 drops from the baseline I'm getting now, when I assume I'm not infected.

Well, that’s a new one to me. A “big needle?” It’s a little plastic catheter in an artery, like an IV. Arterial blood gas analysis is helpful in many ways, in determining pH, acid-base status, and elevated CO2, a sign of respiratory failure, but we only use arterial lines in ICU settings and you don’t do frequent blood gasses if you don’t need to. We rely on pulse oximetry in the office and hospital most of the time. If it picks up the pulse well, it’s pretty darn accurate.

 

[Midpack]

Just asking, are we casually conflating two substantially different outcomes here?

The linked article regarding asymptomatic cases states “The virus can still be causing mild — although likely reversible — harm to their lungs.” And “minor lung inflammation.” And “ It shows that even people with no outward signs of infection can be experiencing some temporary damage to their lungs.“ The article also notes temporary lung damage is common with flu, pneumonia and presumably other respiratory illnesses.

Earlier it was reported some 5-6.5% of serious Covid-19 patients who survive appeared to have permanent lung scarring.

Covid-19 is serious indeed, and there’s a lot we don’t know (yet), but some perspective?

 

[Dtail]

What's the latest thoughts on whether asymptomatic folks are transferring the virus to others?
I am hearing conflicting views.

 

[audreyh1]

Just asking, are we casually conflating two substantially different outcomes here?

The linked article regarding asymptomatic cases states “The virus can still be causing mild — although likely reversible — harm to their lungs.” And “minor lung inflammation.” And “ It shows that even people with no outward signs of infection can be experiencing some temporary damage to their lungs.“ The article also notes temporary lung damage is common with flu, pneumonia and presumably other respiratory illnesses.

Earlier it was reported some 5-6.5% of serious Covid-19 patients who survive appeared to have permanent lung scarring.

Covid-19 is serious indeed, and there’s a lot we don’t know (yet), but some perspective?

There are studies that indicate asymptomatic cases could potentially have long term lung damage.
https://www.azfamily.com/news/conti...cle_64903642-bb36-11ea-b48c-efd576ab9ba1.html

 

[audreyh1]

What's the latest thoughts on whether asymptomatic folks are transferring the virus to others?
I am hearing conflicting views.

There is no practical clinical distinction because clearly pre-symptomatic people spread this disease, and some folks assumed to be asymptomatic actually have extremely mild symptoms and don’t realize they are sick, let alone walking around contagious.

In fact the WHO recently claimed that asymptomatic cases were very rare, as they usually did have some symptoms even if extremely mild and didn’t realize they were sick because they feel perfectly fine. I don’t know how the WHO would determine such a thing. So it’s semantics, basically, because clearly there are tons of folks out there, 50% of cases by some accounts, who are apparently asymptomatic for all practical purposes.

 

[eytonxav]

Just asking, are we casually conflating two substantially different outcomes here?

The linked article regarding asymptomatic cases states “The virus can still be causing mild — although likely reversible — harm to their lungs.” And “minor lung inflammation.” And “ It shows that even people with no outward signs of infection can be experiencing some temporary damage to their lungs.“ The article also notes temporary lung damage is common with flu, pneumonia and presumably other respiratory illnesses.

Earlier it was reported some 5-6.5% of serious Covid-19 patients who survive appeared to have permanent lung scarring.

Covid-19 is serious indeed, and there’s a lot we don’t know (yet), but some perspective?

^ This. Ever have a bad sinus infection and have rebound symptoms for months afterwards. There is way too many statements being made, even from the so-called experts, that turn out to be wrong. Then we have the forum experts chiming in that they read something, so it must be true. The only fact I can see that should be indisputable is no one knows many absolutes about this virus that you can take to the bank.

 

[explanade]

Lung scarring may recover but it make take years, maybe over a decade.

I saw one long-term study, like 15-years after the original SARS epidemic in 2003 and they were checked in 2018.

Would ER people be okay with impaired pulmonary function which limit their ability to be active or doing anything that requires even a lot of walking for a big part of their ER years?

 

[Midpack]

There are studies that indicate asymptomatic cases could potentially have long term lung damage.
https://www.azfamily.com/news/conti...cle_64903642-bb36-11ea-b48c-efd576ab9ba1.html

The overriding point is we don't know yet. I'm reluctant to find one link and draw any conclusions from it, especially with Covid-19 where it's been two steps forward, one step back over and over since this began.

Ever have a bad sinus infection and have rebound symptoms for months afterwards. There is way too many statements being made, even from the so-called experts, that turn out to be wrong. Then we have the forum experts chiming in that they read something, so it must be true. The only fact I can see that should be indisputable is no one knows many absolutes about this virus that you can take to the bank.

+1. Sadly that's how the internet seems to work these days. If you have one or two supporting docs, regardless of sources, it must be true - or we should act like it. And if you can find one mistake by an expert who doesn't agree with your POV, it's fair to casually discredit everything they say. I'm looking forward to the day we know more for sure about SARS2, but it could be quite a while - and the public isn't making it any easier?

 

[intent]

Just one data point, so indicative of nothing - but thought I'd share it anyway

I was diagnosed with Covid in April based on presenting with Covid toes. Note, I was not tested and still haven't been, as I didn't have any other symptoms. I've noticed though that even now, long after my toes have healed, deep breaths are uncomfortable. For anyone who has experienced high altitude, it's a similar burning feeling and a little chest constriction feeling. Nothing horrible, but definitely noticeable.

I'm 52 and exercise aerobically daily, and it hasn't prevented me from continuing to do so.

My wife was also diagnosed but never tested. Her symptoms were worse than mine in April - coughing, fatigue, naseau. Basically, the doctor who diagnosed us based her diagnosis on my Covid toes and our close proximity, so take both diagnosis for what they're worth. Still today though, she is experiencing chest pain and is often awakened at night due to uncontrollable coughing fits.

Long story short - it seems to me we are likely still overcoming some lung damage, but it isn't so bad that it prevents us from being active. Hopefully this will be the case for most if they do find that symptoms like ours are the result of Covid.

 

[audreyh1]

Just one data point, so indicative of nothing - but thought I'd share it anyway

I was diagnosed with Covid in April based on presenting with Covid toes. Note, I was not tested and still haven't been, as I didn't have any other symptoms. I've noticed though that even now, long after my toes have healed, deep breaths are uncomfortable. For anyone who has experienced high altitude, it's a similar burning feeling and a little chest constriction feeling. Nothing horrible, but definitely noticeable.

I'm 52 and exercise aerobically daily, and it hasn't prevented me from continuing to do so.

My wife was also diagnosed but never tested. Her symptoms were worse than mine in April - coughing, fatigue, naseau. Basically, the doctor who diagnosed us based her diagnosis on my Covid toes and our close proximity, so take both diagnosis for what they're worth. Still today though, she is experiencing chest pain and is often awakened at night due to uncontrollable coughing fits.

Long story short - it seems to me we are likely still overcoming some lung damage, but it isn't so bad that it prevents us from being active. Hopefully this will be the case for most if they do find that symptoms like ours are the result of Covid.

Wow, thanks for sharing. Have you or your wife talked with your doctor about your breathing issues/chest constriction? Do you think your lung damage would show up on x-rays?

I’m so sorry you both are continuing to experience symptoms, particularly your wife.

This is pretty mind blowing to me - that someone realizes later that they have lung damage, or perhaps doesn’t even know it!

 

[explanade]

It would be interesting to see what participation in running events like marathons and 10k races are like after this is all over.

 

[Sunset]

Well, that’s a new one to me. A “big needle?” It’s a little plastic catheter in an artery, like an IV. Arterial blood gas analysis is helpful in many ways, in determining pH, acid-base status, and elevated CO2, a sign of respiratory failure, but we only use arterial lines in ICU settings and you don’t do frequent blood gasses if you don’t need to. We rely on pulse oximetry in the office and hospital most of the time. If it picks up the pulse well, it’s pretty darn accurate.

Thanks...
I got one of those Oximeter devices a couple of weeks ago, and it is consistently giving me 95/96 type readings for myself and some others.
One always wonders if the thing is accurate, but it seems accurate enough.
if my readings go to 90 I'll know something is wrong.

I'm so glad I don't need to be sticking a "big needle" into my arm everytime I want to know my O2 level

 

[explanade]

Well, that’s a new one to me. A “big needle?” It’s a little plastic catheter in an artery, like an IV. Arterial blood gas analysis is helpful in many ways, in determining pH, acid-base status, and elevated CO2, a sign of respiratory failure, but we only use arterial lines in ICU settings and you don’t do frequent blood gasses if you don’t need to. We rely on pulse oximetry in the office and hospital most of the time. If it picks up the pulse well, it’s pretty darn accurate.

This is the account I read, from a hospitalist in AZ:

I realized in the past two days that oxygen saturation numbers that you see on the machines are completely worthless in many COVID patients.

So, the one thing we thought we knew, that COVID causes profound hypoxia, was true, but it's actually much worse than we thought. In order to figure out if you are hypoxic (low blood oxygen levels), a needle is stuck into an artery in your wrist as often as is needed.

It hurts. A lot. I will have a needle stuck into your artery as often as I need to. I'm sorry, I know it hurts, but it's for your own good.

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/opini...-reopening-without-mask-mandate-catastrophic/