New Rav4 purchase falls apart .... not sure what to do

[BarbWire]

I am absolutely gutted. And torn about what to do.

Last week many of you helped me find a 2020 Toyota Rav4, and I tracked down what I wanted in Colorado (would fly up from Texas). The Costco price was excellent, and the manufacturer's incentive was good as well. Walking out at 12% under MSRP, a very happy camper.

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/need-help-locating-buying-new-awd-rav4-105774.html

But today while researching trailer hitches, I discovered on FB -- and followed up on Toyota and Rav4 discussion forums -- that there is a significant electrical problem with many 2020 Rav4s which renders them un-startable after not being driven. sometimes for as little as overnight! Some of the reports are for vehicles with <1000 miles on them, and one is for a vehicle purchased just a few days earlier: parked on Friday evening, and dead on Monday morning. It displays as a "SmartKey System Malfunction."

It is not known if it is a software glitch or a parasitic drain, but apparently the batteries, registering as "very dead" can be jumped, and when the vehicle driven to the dealership test out as "no problem. You must have left something on."

Some folks are being told that the new vehicles, with all their electrical and electronic components, need to be driven every two days at a minimum. That rules out parking at an airport.

Folks are also being advised to carry a battery jumper -- for a new $35K car. Others report their new vehicles sitting at the dealership for days for "diagnosis" only to come up with "nothing wrong."

I can't figure out just how pervasive the problem is, but on four forums the complaints were as recent as yesterday. It may also be a problem with the 2020 Camry.

I assume that if I call the CO dealer and express my concern, he will say there isn't a problem, or that a software update will solve it. Not according to folks on the forums who have had the DCM updated.

It might be more prudent to call on Monday and kill the deal, and just eat the $500 deposit. I can't have a vehicle I worry about. So much for reliable Toyotas.

And start the search again for another brand/model.

That's the right thing to do, right?

Any other ideas or advice? I am in a tizzy. And none of my friends are "savvy car people" to consult.

 

[pb4uski]

Interesting. We have had a similar problem with our 2016 Subaru Outback... once or twice a year the battery is dead as a doornail... jump start it and it will be fine for months... I've assumed that one of us left something on but now you are making me wonder.

I've always been keen on Toyota, but some friends had a Highlander that they had nothing but problems with that they traded for a Nissan. OTOH, DBIL has a Rav4 and loves it as do some other friends... in fact, they have two Rav4's.

Seems to me that a battery jumper would provide peace of mind a lot less expensively that walking away from a $500 deposit. Perhaps you can call the dealer, express you concern and as part of your renegotiation have them add in a battery jumper.

If it is a legit, frequent problem that they can't solve then there is always lemon law protection, but that is a hassle.

 

[homestead]

Sorry to hear that. If you go on kelly blue book site and look under customer reviews and select your car you can see what problems/praises actual customers have for that car.

 

[skipro33]

The 2019 and 2020 Subaru Ascent has the same problem if the rear hatch is left open. Unlike all the other doors that desense after 10 minutes, the Ascent keeps a draw on the battery enough to kill it in under 4 hours. There's a fix, but Subaru isn't pushing it. There are customer work arounds, but every one usually gets a lithium portable jumper and keeps on hand. I changed out my battery, another weak point to add to the load, and called SOA about it. They asked to see the battery receipt and sent me a check.
My point is that the Toyota is not the only vehicle that has phantom drains and for-crap batteries from the factory.

 

[BarbWire]

Thanks. I am still in a tizzy, even thinking about toting a battery charger. I go camping and often leave windows and the rear hatch open (one person was told he had killed the battery because he left the moonroof open overnight....seriously?)

Carry a battery jumper? Change out the factory battery right away for a Lifeline or other? Can you charge up a battery jumper (I've never owned one) and leave it sitting in your car at the airport for 3 weeks, and still have enough juice in it to jump your car?

I guess the real issue is what percentage of Rav4s are afflicted? I don't know how to find out how prevalent the problem really is.

 

[BarbWire]

Interesting. We have had a similar problem with our 2016 Subaru Outback... once or twice a year the battery is dead as a doornail... jump start it and it will be fine for months... I've assumed that one of us left something on but now you are making me wonder.

I've always been keen on Toyota, but some friends had a Highlander that they had nothing but problems with that they traded for a Nissan. OTOH, DBIL has a Rav4 and loves it as do some other friends... in fact, they have two Rav4's.

Seems to me that a battery jumper would provide peace of mind a lot less expensively that walking away from a $500 deposit. Perhaps you can call the dealer, express you concern and as part of your renegotiation have them add in a battery jumper.

If it is a legit, frequent problem that they can't solve then there is always lemon law protection, but that is a hassle.

I loved my old 4Runner, which was electronically much simpler. Alas I sold it in 2017 when I became a nomad. Everyone I know who has had a Toyota has loved it ... but I know no-one with a recent Toyota.

There is some forum chatter about lemon laws and law suits, but I don't want any part of that if possible.

Sigh.

 

[BarbWire]

Sorry to hear that. If you go on kelly blue book site and look under customer reviews and select your car you can see what problems/praises actual customers have for that car.

Didn't know about the KBB reviews for current models. Make that forum #5 with lots of complaints about dead batteries.

 

[skipro33]

Thanks. I am still in a tizzy, even thinking about toting a battery charger. I go camping and often leave windows and the rear hatch open (one person was told he had killed the battery because he left the moonroof open overnight....seriously?)

Carry a battery jumper? Change out the factory battery right away for a Lifeline or other? Can you charge up a battery jumper (I've never owned one) and leave it sitting in your car at the airport for 3 weeks, and still have enough juice in it to jump your car?

I guess the real issue is what percentage of Rav4s are afflicted? I don't know how to find out how prevalent the problem really is.

I found out all I know about the Subaru Ascent problem from a forum for the Ascent.
https://www.ascentforums.com/
I'm sure all car models have them. There's even a facebook page for Ascent dead battery club!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/875597246107705

Here's a link to the battery jumper I have. They hold a charge for at least a year and will start the car several times before needing to recharge. This one is powerful enough to start my diesel truck that requires two commercial batteries to turn over!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DWSYYZR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[calmloki]

https://www.costco.com/type-s-lithi...t-in-wireless-charging.product.100455412.html

All cars have ..issues... New car owners are Beta testers. Our (then) new Mazda CX5 got outfitted with a tow bar and trailer wiring and lo and behold - it would kill the car when towing. Found that in the rain at an intersection one day. Took Mazda about a year to cure the issue for all the new CX5s. A simple work around is sometimes best while waiting for the electro-brains to figure things out.

 

[Katsmeow]

If I felt the problem was a real problem or even had a serious possibility of being a real problem I would eat the $500 and not buy the car. Let's put it this way. If before you put down the deposit, you would not have bought this car then if if it was me in that I situation I would eat the $500 without a second thought.... But I am more risk averse for things like this than many people.

 

[Sunset]

OP - I think you are simply getting buyers nerves.

I searched for the quoted term you gave and found a hit on reddit, person took car to dealer and they changed some relay that is known to get stuck in cold weather.

You won't be in cold weather, and can always change that relay preemptively.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rav4/comments/ezzmd9/igct_relay/

 

[BarbWire]

Actually, I will be in cold weather. I plan to move to the mountains of NM or UT in 2021 -- skiing is key.

I discovered the FB Rav4 group (top of the post heap today because yet another person "joined the dead battery club" is how I discovered it), and then digging found it discussed in a Toyota forum, the Rav4World forum, cargurus, kbb.

My "learning" from this is that my research was inadequate, leaning heavily on the Toyota reputation and my 4Runner experience. I had read the editorial reviews at edmunds, caranddriver, and so on, but didn't read the reviews of owners. On one site, the editorial review was 4.7/5.0, but owners were 3.1/5.0, predominantly citing dead battery issues.

Lesson learned.

It's not $500 that's the issue -- that's really chump change in the big picture. I too am risk-averse, especially when I could be stranded in a rural area on my own. It's just that the car ticked all the boxes until this cropped up. And I wanted the car search-and-buying process to be over ....

I am now reading as much as I can find about the 2020 Ford Escape AWD. That's how I will spend Sunday. And I do have a Ford dealer I trust, near Kansas City.

Right now I am leaning 90% toward walking out of the Rav4.

Thanks everyone for calming, soothing and advising me.

 

[frayne]

I've bought a 2020 Rav4, non hybrid model last December and have had no issues at all. It has set for a week or longer and always fires right up.

 

[pb4uski]

^^^ Makes me wonder how prevalent the problem is.... the OP might be reading reviews of 100 or so owners, some of who may have had a problem as a result of their own actions like leaving something on, while OTOH there are thousands of owners like frayne who have never had a problem but don't go on the internet and write that they have never had a problem.

There are 259,000 2020 Rav4s that have been sold.

 

[Aerides]

In your shoes I'd research a lot further outside of facebook, and then decide quickly if this is a rare issue you can ignore, or a true high-percentage problem you can't.

You can always find anecdotes of issues with literally any car.

 

[Bamaman]

I would go ahead with the RAV4 deal rather than lose the deposit. It remains about the hottest vehicle on the new vehicle market, and Toyota is dominant in their market segment with that vehicle where competition is triple tough.

Remember that there are really a bunch of RAV4's sold, and even 5% of their sales is a large number of vehicles. But Toyota is very intolerant to nagging problems with any of their vehicles, and they're very proactive in solving problems. Other manufacturers (GM) don't fix problems until they cost them hundreds of $ millions.

I've had well over 100 new cars, and a battery drain is not unheard of in modern vehicles. It could happen to any brand. You could go with a Honda CRV, but they're known to have engines that "make oil" and they're not nearly as trouble free as previous generation Hondas.

If you ever have a problem, just keep a lithium powered battery backup to plug into a power port--very small in size. And document any warranty claims closely.

 

[KB]

I have not had any problems with the battery on my 2020 RAV4 Hybrid and I only drive it once every week or two. Corona virus killed my need to drive, just after I got my new car. So, only having 1400 miles on it, it is only driven occasionally. And has always started.

So I wonder what the percentage of new RAV4s have the problem.

 

[REWahoo]

My recommendation is to stick with the RAV4.

We have a 2014 Toyota Highlander and the same situation - completely dead battery after not starting it for 2-3 weeks - happened to us twice. The first time was when we had owned it for only a few months and returned from a trip. Took it to the dealer who could find no problem but replaced the battery. It happened again a few months later and I recharged the battery myself and purchased one of those portable lithium battery jump starter that I carry in the car. (I recharge it every 3-4 months.)

I purchased the jump starter in 2016 - and have never had to use it. The problem never happened again.

 

[LRDave]

The 2019 and 2020 Subaru Ascent has the same problem if the rear hatch is left open. Unlike all the other doors that desense after 10 minutes, the Ascent keeps a draw on the battery enough to kill it in under 4 hours. There's a fix, but Subaru isn't pushing it. There are customer work arounds, but every one usually gets a lithium portable jumper and keeps on hand. I changed out my battery, another weak point to add to the load, and called SOA about it. They asked to see the battery receipt and sent me a check.
My point is that the Toyota is not the only vehicle that has phantom drains and for-crap batteries from the factory.

As a new 2020 Ascent owner, this is a concerning revelation.

 

[someguy]

Facebook, search engines, and plenty of other sites more recently, use tracking cookies to show you what they think you are "into", and they have gotten very good at this. In other words, I wouldn't trust these at all. And keep in mind, even the user forums and other review sites are non-representative samples of the owner population. Happy owners are a lot less motivated to get online and write reviews than (what could be a tiny fraction) of unhappy owners.

Consumer Reports gives their best (dark green) reliability rating to the 2020 RAV4 under electric system (includes "Alternator, starter, hybrid battery and related systems, regular battery, battery cables, engine harness, coil, ignition switch, electronic ignition, distributor or rotor failure, spark plugs and wires failure.") In fact, it gets that best reliability rating in virtually every category except minor transmission (green), body integrity (green) and in-car electronics (yellow). Dark green is best, green is better, yellow is average, orange is worse, red is worst.

On the other hand, if you've simply changed your mind, there is no shame in backing out "just because".

 

[BarbWire]

In your shoes I'd research a lot further outside of facebook, and then decide quickly if this is a rare issue you can ignore, or a true high-percentage problem you can't.

You can always find anecdotes of issues with literally any car.

Facebook is where I first became aware of the problem, and have now searched 5 forums.

But I have no idea how to decide how prevalent the problem is. The people who post are, of course, a self-selected sample.

 

[BarbWire]

Facebook, search engines, and plenty of other sites more recently, use tracking cookies to show you what they think you are "into", and they have gotten very good at this. In other words, I wouldn't trust these at all. And keep in mind, even the user forums and other review sites are non-representative samples of the owner population. Happy owners are a lot less motivated to get online and write reviews than (what could be a tiny fraction) of unhappy owners.

Consumer Reports gives their best (dark green) reliability rating to the 2020 RAV4 under electric system (includes "Alternator, starter, hybrid battery and related systems, regular battery, battery cables, engine harness, coil, ignition switch, electronic ignition, distributor or rotor failure, spark plugs and wires failure.") In fact, it gets that best reliability rating in virtually every category except minor transmission (green), body integrity (green) and in-car electronics (yellow). Dark green is best, green is better, yellow is average, orange is worse, red is worst.

On the other hand, if you've simply changed your mind, there is no shame in backing out "just because".

I agree that unhappy owners are more likely to post/participate in forums. That said, trackers will see that I am "into" the Rav4 but I doubt they can ascertain that my concern in a particular problem, and point me directly to the thread in the Rav4 forums discussing it.

I am still trying to figure out how to research this in a balanced manner.

 

[Sunset]

I agree that unhappy owners are more likely to post/participate in forums. That said, trackers will see that I am "into" the Rav4 but I doubt they can ascertain that my concern in a particular problem, and point me directly to the thread in the Rav4 forums discussing it.


I am still trying to figure out how to research this in a balanced manner.

Yes, the trackers can determine exactly what you are "into". Far more sensitive than simply Rav4.

I do agree with the others, as you are searching for the problem of Rav4, it is becoming a self fulfilling cycle.

If you are truly worried, besides the booster you could get. There is also a AAA membership you could buy the first year, but you don't have to see below:

This may be your answer: https://www.toyota.com/toyota-care

"Every new Toyota comes with ToyotaCare, a maintenance plan that covers normal factory scheduled service for 2 years or 25,000 miles, whichever comes first, and 24 hour Roadside Assistance for 2 years, unlimited mileage. "

 

[someguy]

I agree that unhappy owners are more likely to post/participate in forums. That said, trackers will see that I am "into" the Rav4 but I doubt they can ascertain that my concern in a particular problem, and point me directly to the thread in the Rav4 forums discussing it.


I am still trying to figure out how to research this in a balanced manner.

It is absolutely technologically possible that your digital trail indicates you are contemplating a RAV4 purchase and are concerned about dead batteries. Unless you are taking unusual and extraordinary measures, Facebook, Google, and other lesser-known data aggregators know this and have made it available to their advertisers, customers and partners. I would bet significant money that they even know you are looking at out of state dealers and which ones. The only question is: does a specific given site that you may happen to use have the sophistication to use that information and to what extent. Facebook, Google, Amazon, and the like have staggering levels of sophistication. I don't know about places like Edmunds but imagine they are not unsophisticated.

Anyway, I believe Consumer Reports is your best source of representative data, and, as I mentioned, it appears to indicate the best possible reliability rating for your area of concern on the 2020 RAV4.

 

[lesjrp]

I have a friend that had exactly that problem with his RAV4 hybrid after two weeks of ownership. Completely dead battery, dealer didn’t know what happened when he took it back and couldn’t find any issues. The car was so new at the time, in terms of model year, that the dealer didn’t even know how to advise to jump it. Small junction box in the front that contains two terminals for that purpose. Not completely obvious either, but simple to do once found. He bought a small battery/jumper that fits in the glove compartment, just in case. Hasn’t happened in the last six + months, and they are roaming all around here in Western Washington.