Will you consider getting married with a prenup?

[Scratchy]

Absent any other arrangements, a poor person signing a prenup is agreeing to remain poor even after the death of the wealthy partner.

This is not necessarily the case. If the wealthy partner wants to reduce the chance of the prenup being contested, he/she would be wise to agree to reasonable, even generous terms. I'd suspect many prenups are written this way. Unless contested, prenups also of course potentially save legal fees in the event of divorce, which can be enormous.

 

[Chuckanut]

Absent any other arrangements, a poor person signing a prenup is agreeing to remain poor even after the death of the wealthy partner.

Doesn't that depend on detail of the prenup?

 

[socca]

Doesn't that depend on detail of the prenup?

Absolutely. I was referring to the prenup that I'm familiar with, where the poorer party signed away all of his rights under state law to the assets of his wealthy future spouse upon her death. "Other arrangements" were made to lessen the blow, but resentment lingered nevertheless. Many other prenup agreements are possible, but the details here are way above my pay grade.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I don't like the idea of going into a marriage with an exit plan already in place. I wouldn't have accepted one when I was young and getting married the first time. If my husband predeceases me (he's 9 year's older) I'd probably have significant assets to protect. I don't think I'd use one if I got remarried.

 

[Brat]

Just for giggles, I looked up a former beau on the internet. When he was a Resident I visited him while staying with my Father's cousin in Mineapallos. After spending several hours with the beau my relative told me that the guy was a loser. Turns out he was correct. I discovered that he has been divorced twice.

The OP says he has been married 3 times. It is silent as to how many times he has been divorced. Were I the lady of his attention I would be very careful.

 

[teejayevans]

I was widowed and remarried. We keep all our stuff separate, so there is no problem. Even in a community property state, if the assets are not commingled, there should not be a problem.

Sounds like you never gone through a divorce, doesn’t matter that you keep them separated. BTW a prenup can be invalidated, for example if you have children...ask Tiger Woods.

 

[deserat]

+1

Frank and I met back in 2000 on an internet dating site. I told him on our first date that I wanted a relationship with no limits on emotional commitment but no marriage, no living together, and no mixing of money or financial assets.
...

That is an excellent way to communicate your desires. Appreciate that wisdom.

..... After spending several hours with the beau my relative told me that the guy was a loser. Turns out he was correct. I discovered that he has been divorced twice.

The OP says he has been married 3 times. It is silent as to how many times he has been divorced. Were I the lady of his attention I would be very careful.

This gives me pause-I am a twice divorced person and yet the second divorce was definitely not my choice while the first one was a mutual decision as we married very young and then only spent half of our married life in the same place (dual military does that). I don't want to think of myself as a 'loser' but I know that could be implied.

I think that's why it's important to be clear about what you want and why while dating. I would not necessarily discount someone who has been divorced twice, however, I would want to know the reasons behind those. One must understand what it was that they contributed to any situation to determine what should change for the next situation (if at all).

To the OP, one way to look at this is you can't take it with you when you die. So, how would you like your assets to be distributed and if you want this new 'friend' in your life to possibly share in your largesse, by how much and will they be able to manage any friction with the rest of your family. I would also ask if they want that. As W2R above, it may not be necessary, but it depends on the people involved.

A little story; I know a lady who was divorced once, widowed once and re-met a guy who had been single his whole life that she had known in high school. Turns out he had loved her all along. He had a terminal condition, but he wanted to marry her because he wanted her to have his assets. He had no other family or they did not need his assets. He just wanted to be able to spend the rest of his life with someone he cared for and provide for her afterward.

So, one never knows.....

 

[Badger]

+1

Frank and I met back in 2000 on an internet dating site. I told him on our first date that I wanted a relationship with no limits on emotional commitment but no marriage, no living together, and no mixing of money or financial assets.

Having heard many horror stories about gold diggers, he thought that was a great idea. We both feel like we are too old to start over again from scratch.

We are simply NOT interested in government enforcement of any financial agreements. We just want to be with each other.

A very top notch attorney once told me that all preconceptions aside, there is no such thing as a completely bullet-proof prenup if confronted by a good enough legal team. I tend to believe him, but either way it's irrelevant to me since I have no desire to marry again.

+1
I hope my wife has a long and healthy life if i go first. In case that doesn't happen then I am going to keep this in mind if I was ever to meet anyone else. I will most likely be too broken and old to be of any use to another partner by then. If that is the case then her grown children will be getting a big boost in their retirement as will a few animal rescues.


Cheers!



Cheers!

 

[ElizabethT]

I've always felt your approach was a wise one.

For one thing, it puts off any swains who are thinking wistfully of having someone around again to make sandwiches, ensure the toilets get cleaned regularly, and remember his grandchildren's birthdays.

My 85 year old father refers to that as the search for 'A nurse and a purse.'

 

[ponyboy]

I got married 5 years after my first wife died. Prenup?

I don need no stinkin' prenup.

Hey Baby, I love you and want to share the rest of my life with you but hey...first you have to sign this document just in case it doesn't work out.

So very romantic eh?

Says absolutely everyone until they wished they had a prenup.

This is like those people who dont believe in modern medicine. They want to cure everything with therapeutics, herbal potions and crystals. Easy to say that when you're not really sick. Check back on those folks when theyve been diagnosed with a brain tumor or cancer. See if they still want to cure cancer with beet roots, or if they want to take the modern western medicine approach, lol.

 

[wrigley]

Sorry, but I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that you've been married 3 times in the past and you still have assets?



Mike

 

[Vacation4us]

I am DH third wife he is my second spouse.

We have a prenup. He wanted to protect his pension I wanted to protect my children.

Second marriage cost DH 750k to keep her from his pension. She swore up and down when they got married she wouldn’t go after it but alas the end of a marriage is quite different than the beginning.

I declined DH marriage proposal for 8 years we have been married 3. I don’t see us divorcing but if we did his income would be more than double mine. That’s the risk I took retiring with him this year at 54.

There were financial reasons for us to get married. Health Insurance coverage was the number 1 reason. I couldn’t have retired early without his health insurance. If I had to continue working WE couldn’t have the life WE wanted together.

I won’t lie and say there wasn’t some tension when we got the lawyers involved but in the end it’s what we both wanted and we worked through it.

Live your life as you see fit!

PS I always tell DH I don’t know what was wrong with his 2 ex’s he is a gem and couldn’t be a better DH.

 

[JustCurious]

I have been married 3 times ...

Don't do that again. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Are you insane?

 

[JustCurious]

To me, the whole prenup situation is rather strange: you agree to get married under the laws of a certain state and then try to replace a certain portion of those laws with your own directives. Why get married in the first place?

Because there are many legal benefits to being married. Just one example, a spouse can collect social security spousal benefits.

 

[mystang52]

Perhaps the only smart thing Suze Orman said was about prenups. Something to the effect of: if the marriage lasts, then it's just a piece of paper. If the marriage fails, it can be invaluable.

 

[jkern]

I have been married 3 times and I'm currently in a new relationship with a very nice lady and she has her own business and assets + 0 debt.

I'm not too incline about getting married, but if I decide to make that decision down the road it will have to be with a prenup agreement. For those of you that have been through this situation before, are prenups good enough to keep all of my assets safe in case of some major "disaster"?

I got married for a second time at age 58 (7 years after retiring) with a prenup. All assets and income are separate property. I've been married for over 4 years and everything is working well.

 

[athena53]

Similar to Vacation4Us, I was the 3rd wife of my second husband. His first marriage lasted about 12 years and she broke it off; the second was a "rebound" one which was short-lived. My first ended in divorce. We dated 7 years before we married and it was a wonderful marriage. Sometimes you learn from your mistakes! He died 4 years ago.

I'm dating a good man now and we've cheerfully agreed we're not interested in remarriage or cohabitation.

I see two pitfalls with prenups. First, the state imposes obligations on married couples that a prenup can't negate. If a person who's got a lot of assets marries someone whose long-term care plan is "qualify for Medicaid" the wealthier spouse will be on the hook for LTC charges till they've spent down to a pretty low asset level (around $130K). Second, medical charges can be considered joint obligations even if the other spouse hasn't signed anything. I had a hospital try to attach my wages for unreimbursed medical expenses of my first husband when he was unemployed. (They were paid out of his share of the divorce proceeds.)

Second- my Grandpa remarried after Grandma died and they had a prenup- she had very little. I've mentioned the story before- first husband died and THEN she found he'd elected no Survivor benefit for his pension. Still, she coaxed Grandpa into spending on her- including sending $300/month to an adult daughter and "upgrading" her diamond engagement ring at their 5-year anniversary to something over 1 carat. (Mine at the time was 1 carat and hers was bigger.) Mom took over Grandpa's finances after Step-Grandma died and said that every time one of Grandpa's CDs renewed it was moved into her name.

The final money grab: after Grandpa died Step-Grandma's son surfaced and claimed that the proceeds of a $30K life insurance policy on Grandpa should go to them because Step-grandma had paid the premiums. She wasn't that practical and it would have been very expensive if taken out after they married (in their late 70s at the time). The family just gave up in disgust and handed it over.

Pre-nups can't protect you against everything!

 

[street]

^ interesting!!! Some valid points you made.

 

[Bamaman]

We knew a lady that had been married 5 times. Two marriages were in her later years.

My mother asked her where she finds good husbands.

She said at the funeral home--when other wives die. If you don't get'em quick, they may get away. She was in her late 80's at the time, and quite a character.

And after all those husbands, she was very well off.

 

[FIREd]

I don't see the point of marriage anymore. Marriages are so easily undone nowadays that the practice seems both antiquated and worthless in my eyes. So prenup or not, it's a no for me.

 

[Chuckanut]

This gives me pause-I am a twice divorced person and yet the second divorce was definitely not my choice while the first one was a mutual decision as we married very young and then only spent half of our married life in the same place (dual military does that). I don't want to think of myself as a 'loser' but I know that could be implied.

Early on in my 2nd Batchelorhood I learned that one, two and sometimes three divorces may not be a problem, and that I also had to consider length of the marriages. For example, one lady I knew was married 20+ years. Her husband took up with a younger gal, he would not consider doing anything to save the marriage so within a year she was divorced. It was a no-fault state. There was nothing she could do but get the best split of their assets she could manage. Then, on the rebound, she was married again in less than a year. That was a mistake on her part. He had substance abuse problems. She divorced him after two years. She is a lovely woman, financially independent and very attractive. She would be a good catch for any good man. Her first marriage proved she is good for the long-haul. Her second marriage proved she is human. My 2¢.

OTOH, if a person is married 5 years to Joe, 7 years to Pete, and 4 years to Sam, then I start to wonder. Again, just my 2¢.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

A very top notch attorney once told me that all preconceptions aside, there is no such thing as a completely bullet-proof prenup if confronted by a good enough legal team. I tend to believe him, but either way it's irrelevant to me since I have no desire to marry again.

And almost 100% of attorneys will also tell you this of ANY contract.

DW and I have a pre-nup. The reasons are varied, but we both felt it was a wise idea. It has nothing to do with "loving" someone any more or less and we look at it as a insurance policy of sorts. As long as we are in love and living a blissful life, it sits and collects dust. However, in the event that it becomes "War of the Roses" it *could* help to alleviate some of the heartache, finance destructing, attorney enriching process that so many divorces include. So far in 11 years of marriage, I don't think it's been mentioned more than a couple of times...and that has been in conversation with friends about it. Of course, fairly early on in our dating relationship, we examined each others credit reports...so...

In a nut shell...I would NOT get married without one...and I would make sure it was drafted by someone who is competent and would damn sure make sure that the future spouse has an opportunity to have it reviewed by THIER own counsel. Oh, and this NOT legal advice.

I was widowed and remarried. We keep all our stuff separate, so there is no problem. Even in a community property state, if the assets are not commingled, there should not be a problem.

Uh. This is NOT an accurate statement. There are protections out there for widows...even in NON community states.

Regarding the enforceability of a prenup, we were told by several family and estate attorneys that in California it is very difficult to successfully contest a well executed prenup. In California, the standard for throwing out a prenup is that it be "unconscionable", or not have met some statutory requirement such as each side having their own counsel et. al. Now, if one of the parties is a billionaire, or one of the parties is being left with meager resources, the calculus will be different. But if a couple has a prenup executed properly with reasonable terms, it is very unlikely to be contested at all, let alone contested successfully.

This is good information. Obviously, states have differing rules and/or statutes but another *fairly* common requirement to enforceability is FULL DISCLOSURE of ALL ASSETS by BOTH PARTIES prior to execution of the document. If you forget to disclose that $400 savings account you opened 21 years earlier and simple forgot...that *could* be grounds to have it thrown out (probably not likely, nonetheless...).

 

[EastWest Gal]

36 years married, married at 24 to the guy I fell in love with when I was 16. No prenup-we had nothing. I know long term gay couples who gladly married in 2015. The rights of hospital visitation, survivorship, pensions, inheritance, Social Security, two parent households are all impacted by the legal institution of marriage. Many long term gay couples have unequal incomes, and when one dies the other may literally have nothing.

Prenups apply when relationships end through divorce. Wills apply when someone dies.

Should I survive my husband, I would have no interest in marrying, and probably not cohabitating either. I think W2R's arrangement is ideal. But if I did remarry, there would be no mixing of assets, so a prenup would be a given.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

(Me quietly commingling assets as DH is none the wiser....)

I was widowed and remarried. We keep all our stuff separate, so there is no problem. Even in a community property state, if the assets are not commingled, there should not be a problem.

 

[brett]

Why bother getting married again? Live together.