This weather is awful!! 2008-2021

[Leo1277]

... In the Sierra foothills they even have a train line straight up the mountain where an electric engine pulls rail cars filled with rocks up a steep incline when there's too much power, and lets them roll down to generate power when there's too little...

Here is an interesting picture and video of a company that does this. They claim the setup is cheaper than batteries, and it has a much longer service life because it's so low tech: https://aresnorthamerica.com/ Too bad Texas is mostly flat though.

 

[NW-Bound]

It wouldn't surprise me it their plumbing is run on outside walls of their home apt. etc.. Not sure if their homes are better insulated then home built in northern US or not.

We have been out of heat and power for days in minus temps and never have lost or froze any pipes in the home. Maybe we have got very lucky but I have never really heard of that happening here, unless a few times with trailer houses but not homes, that I recall.

Up in my high-country 2nd home, the average low in the winter is 18F, and the record low is -11F. When leaving, I shut off and drain the plumbing, and leave the HVAC on at its lowest setting of 45F. My highest winter monthly bill was still about $100.

 

[street]

Up in my high-country 2nd home, the average low in the winter is 18F, and the record low is -11F. When leaving, I shut off and drain the plumbing, and leave the HVAC on at its lowest setting of 45F. My highest winter monthly bill was still about $100.

Yes, it is surprising thou, it doesn't take to much heat in a home from keeping from not totally freezing up. A small oil stove as a backup and use common sense.

 

[audreyh1]

We lived in Houston in the early 80’s when a similar storm hit over the Christmas holidays. Many people out of town returned home to flooded houses. A friend had a “sunken living room” that became an indoor pool.

Even though we live in the RGV we always turn our water and gas off when we leave town. You never know what might cause a leak. A neighbor had something break in their plumbing unrelated to cold temps.

I heard of one who left their trailer home with power off that early 89s storm, and returned to a frozen commode (among other things)!

Propane shortage seems to be an issue here, lines at the propane dealer up the road and not enough supply. Also the RV park next door has had no power or water since yesterday morning. We feel very fortunate.

 

[NW-Bound]

Yes, it is surprising thou, it doesn't take to much heat in a home from keeping from not totally freezing up. A small oil stove as a backup and use common sense.

I don't know if my $100/month to keep the house at 45F is excessive. It has many large window panes for the view, and is on top of a slope looking down a valley. It is therefore exposed to the wind, although it gains a lot of heat during the day.

A neighbor down the road who lives there full-time and keeps her home comfortable said she paid $250-300/month for gas heating (propane is trucked in). My home is all electric.

 

[NW-Bound]

Propane shortage seems to be an issue here, lines at the propane dealer up the road and not enough supply. Also the RV park next door has had no power or water since yesterday morning. We feel very fortunate.

Aye, aye, aye...

RVs have such poor insulation that the inside temperature would be equalized with the outdoor in no time, if there's no heating or cooling. You are sheltered from the wind, snow, and rain, and that's about all.

Aye, aye, aye...


PS. RV'ers can crank up their generators to recharge the batteries to run the furnace that burns from their propane tank. They are in trouble only if their propane tank runs empty. In that respect, they may do better than home owners.

 

[skipro33]

Here is an interesting picture and video of a company that does this. They claim the setup is cheaper than batteries, and it has a much longer service life because it's so low tech: https://aresnorthamerica.com/ Too bad Texas is mostly flat though.

Electric company I worked for would use wind turbine power at night to pump water back uphill to a reservoir that had hydro generation. This allowed unused electricity from wind at night to store the potential energy from water that can later fall and turn the water turbine when needed. The uphill reservoir is all underground along with the large pipes and pumps. Nothing to see above ground.

 

[Leo1277]

...

As I tried to point out in previous threads about renewable energy, even in places like Germany, people still have to burn gas for heat. Germany imports nat gas from Russia and the Netherlands, as I read.

When fossil fuel runs out, what does humanity do? We will all need to live in subterranean housing, in order to survive on renewable energy.

Actually the traditional way to heat single family homes in Germany is with diesel oil. We just seem to hear mostly about gas because of the politically fraught gas pipelines from Russia, and NG would be as step up from oil. Many homes have huge tanks buried in the yard, or stored inside the basement. It's obviously a dirty kind of fuel and since many tanks like to start leaking after decades, outside tanks are environmentally fraught and interior tanks have the potential for a big mess and inevitably somehow tend to start to stink after some years. But the storage is local and there is very little chance for disruption in weather events, although the heaters still require electricity for ignition etc.

About the fate of humanity, I hope we don't all have to move underground. But I think in the long run, solar roof tiles along the lines of what Elon Musk has been putzing around with may be the key part of the puzzle as they produce power for cooling just when it's needed most (like your solar panels), combined with better yet insulation and decentralized energy sources like solar and wind farms, which may even beneficially co-exist with current crop farms.

 

[NW-Bound]

Actually the traditional way to heat single family homes in Germany is with diesel oil. We just seem to hear mostly about gas because of the politically fraught gas pipelines from Russia, and NG would be as step up from oil. Many homes have huge tanks buried in the yard, or stored inside the basement. It's obviously a dirty kind of fuel and since many tanks like to start leaking after decades, outside tanks are environmentally fraught and interior tanks have the potential for a big mess and inevitably somehow tend to start to stink after some years. But the storage is local and there is very little chance for disruption in weather events, although the heaters still require electricity for ignition etc.

About the fate of humanity, I hope we don't all have to move underground. But I think in the long run, solar roof tiles along the lines of what Elon Musk has been putzing around with may be the key part of the puzzle, they produce power for cooling just when it's needed most (like your solar panels), combined with better yet insulation and decentralized energy sources like solar and wind farms, which may even beneficially co-exist with current crop farms.

I remember a poster has said that oil heating is not in use much in the US anymore. I have not seen any statistics about this subject.

About solar energy, I like it a lot as I often say. The problem with RE is always storage, and storage. Batteries have to be a lot cheaper.

Not every home owner can afford a $50K-100K battery, and that would be what you need to survive something like happens now in Texas. And even with that battery, you still need something to burn.

 

[Leo1277]

Electric company I worked for would use wind turbine power at night to pump water back uphill to a reservoir that had hydro generation. This allowed unused electricity from wind at night to store the potential energy from water that can later fall and turn the water turbine when needed. The uphill reservoir is all underground along with the large pipes and pumps. Nothing to see above ground.

Great! Moving such things underground will be important in the future too, and nothing beats the simplicity and "service life" of water. If it were just heavier, so one could get by with smaller volumes.

 

[Leo1277]

...
I sometimes have crazy ideas about these things. For example, add cut off valves at various points in the water pipes so a bad leak in one upstairs pipe feeding the bathroom doesn't mean having to cut off water to the entire house. Crazy huh?

Actually that would be very useful, and cheap. I have done this after the fact for some water lines feeding an in law apartment in a finished walk out basement, but why not do this universally. This kind of thing even deserves being considered for building codes, similar to having separate breakers for electric circuits.

 

[meierlde]

Actually that would be very useful, and cheap. I have done this after the fact for some water lines feeding an in law apartment in a finished walk out basement, but why not do this universally. This kind of thing even deserves being considered for building codes, similar to having separate breakers for electric circuits.

The house I grew up in in Mi with a basement had the plumbing in the basement, and valves for every bathroom etc. I.e. if there was a downstream leak you could shut the water off.

 

[aja8888]

I remember a poster has said that oil heating is not in use much in the US anymore. I have not seen any statistics about this subject.

About solar energy, I like it a lot as I often say. The problem with RE is always storage, and storage. Batteries have to be a lot cheaper.

Not every home owner can afford a $50K-100K battery, and that would be what you need to survive something like happens now in Texas. And even with that battery, you still need something to burn.

I had oil heat in Connecticut and had a tank for storage in the ground. It held 550 gallons of No. 1 kerosene and fired a boiler that had a copper heating coil in it which circulated hot water through baseboard radiant heaters. It worked pretty well and I also installed a Vermont Castings wood stove to save on oil.

Of course, I cut and split my own hardwood being on three acres with a large state forest behind us. There were 12 homes in the area and all were on large lots, and we all had oil plus wood stoves.

I was a real pioneer back then! LOL

Where we lived back east there were no natural gas pipelines nearby forcing us to either use oil or very expensive electric heat.

 

[ls99]

Some fun energy facts:
https://www.eia.gov/state/print.php?sid=TX

Texas State Energy Profile



Texas Quick Facts

• Texas is the top U.S. producer of both crude oil and natural gas. In 2019, the state accounted for 41% of the nation's crude oil production and 25% of its marketed natural gas production.
• As of January 2019, the 30 petroleum refineries in Texas were able to process about 5.8 million barrels of crude oil per day and accounted for 31% of the nation's refining capacity.
• Texas leads the nation in wind-powered generation and produced about 28% of all the U.S. wind-powered electricity in 2019. Texas wind turbines have produced more electricity than both of the state's nuclear power plants since 2014.
• Texas produces more electricity than any other state, generating almost twice as much as Florida, the second-highest electricity-producing state.
• Texas is the largest energy-producing and energy-consuming state in the nation. The industrial sector, including its refineries and petrochemical plants, accounts for half of the energy consumed in the state.

Last Updated: March 19, 2020


Seems the frozen windmills don't much of anything right about now.

 

[Leo1277]

The outliers of that big storm that caused the havoc in Texas just arrived in Southeast Florida one hour ago. There was heavy rain and a tornado warning for 30-45 min, but now the sky is blue again. Temperature dropped from 82 to 76, and will go down all the way to a high of 71 and overnight low of 62 this coming Saturday. Next week will be high 70s / low 80s again.

 

[street]

Actually the traditional way to heat single family homes in Germany is with diesel oil. We just seem to hear mostly about gas because of the politically fraught gas pipelines from Russia, and NG would be as step up from oil. Many homes have huge tanks buried in the yard, or stored inside the basement. It's obviously a dirty kind of fuel and since many tanks like to start leaking after decades, outside tanks are environmentally fraught and interior tanks have the potential for a big mess and inevitably somehow tend to start to stink after some years. But the storage is local and there is very little chance for disruption in weather events, although the heaters still require electricity for ignition etc.

About the fate of humanity, I hope we don't all have to move underground. But I think in the long run, solar roof tiles along the lines of what Elon Musk has been putzing around with may be the key part of the puzzle as they produce power for cooling just when it's needed most (like your solar panels), combined with better yet insulation and decentralized energy sources like solar and wind farms, which may even beneficially co-exist with current crop farms.

That was the heat I had growing up. All the homes in those small towns and farm/ranch area still heat with oil/diesel fuel. The old house I was raised in is still lived in and that is their way to heat their home today. Very common in rural America.

 

[Dtail]

The outliers of that big storm that caused the havoc in Texas just arrived in Southeast Florida one hour ago. There was heavy rain and a tornado warning for 30-45 min, but now the sky is blue again. Temperature dropped from 82 to 76, and will go down all the way to a high of 71 and overnight low of 62 this coming Saturday. Next week will be high 70s / low 80s again.

Only a high of 61 for Tampa this Saturday and a low of 38.
Not ready for planting season just yet. Next month.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I had oil heat in Connecticut and had a tank for storage in the ground. It held 550 gallons of No. 1 kerosene and fired a boiler that had a copper heating coil in it which circulated hot water through baseboard radiant heaters. It worked pretty well and I also installed a Vermont Castings wood stove to save on oil.

Of course, I cut and split my own hardwood being on three acres with a large state forest behind us. There were 12 homes in the area and all were on large lots, and we all had oil plus wood stoves.

I was a real pioneer back then! LOL

Where we lived back east there were no natural gas pipelines nearby forcing us to either use oil or very expensive electric heat.

I burn wood pellets for heat and have relegated my 30-year-old oil boiler to backup status. To keep informed I belong to a couple of forums devoted to wood heating. Probably 70% or more of the other members on the pellet forum are located east of the Great Lakes, with a core group in New England.

 

[NW-Bound]

Burning wood is not bad. It can be both carbon neutral and renewable. Some fast-growing trees for firewood are good catchers of the sun energy, and also a good energy storage medium.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Actually that would be very useful, and cheap. I have done this after the fact for some water lines feeding an in law apartment in a finished walk out basement, but why not do this universally. This kind of thing even deserves being considered for building codes, similar to having separate breakers for electric circuits.

Most of the newer houses I see built these days have water "circuit breakers" (called a Manabloc) of sorts and is pretty awesome. Our house in San Antonio (built in 2006) had them in the garage. Very good for isolating any problem areas.

I think we have really lucked out with this snap...no frozen pipes in spite of 8 days of below 20 degrees and several nights below zero. I think our saving grace has been that most of the plumbing is on interior walls and the pervious owner (who had it built)went way, WAY overboard with some stuff, so I am guessing that insulation is pretty darn good.

 

[ls99]

My camp is heated by recycled solar energy. Wood.
At home is oil heat, with glass front fireplace insert w/blower, wood from camp, mostly for entertainment.

 

[nap470]

The Chicago area received upwards of 12 inches of snow yesterday and overnight. Our governor declared a state of emergency for some reason, although we have had many larger snow falls. The very next story on the news was that the bakeries in the Chicago area were reporting record sales of Packzi's (filled doughnuts) this morning for Fat Tuesday celebrations. Apparently people were able to travel to the bakery.

 

[Koolau]

I remember a poster has said that oil heating is not in use much in the US anymore. I have not seen any statistics about this subject.

About solar energy, I like it a lot as I often say. The problem with RE is always storage, and storage. Batteries have to be a lot cheaper.

Not every home owner can afford a $50K-100K battery, and that would be what you need to survive something like happens now in Texas. And even with that battery, you still need something to burn.

Considering only the heating potential of solar (for dwellings): As you know solar hot water is viable - economically in a large swath of the US. We don't use much of it - even in the Islands where it would pay for itself in a very few years - because its ugly.

Thinking bigger - home heating, for instance, a better storage medium is probably various salt solutions - racking my brain to think of the one I saw in person about 30 years ago - (was it sodium acetate in H2O?) - I could look it up but too lazy. Anyway, heat collectors on the roof heat air which goes into the attic (insulated space) and "melts" salt solutions that look like plastic "cooler bricks" - thus storing heat or else the heat goes directly into the house - or both during sunny days. At night or cloudy days, the melted salts "freeze" giving off large amounts of heat to be directed into the house. The builder (don'tcha lovem!) claimed the system was viable ca. 1990. He said storage was good for at least 3 days - or more if you spring for more "bricks." I wasn't so sure since he didn't build any more. Still it was really cool (whoops, well, you know).

I think we could store heat underground as well. Solar hot water could heat the ground during the summer and on sunny days in winter while the geothermal system extracted heat as needed in winter. Maybe even a way to reverse the process in summer (might take a separate underground "field"). My point is "batteries" are high tech and expensive and not terribly efficient in storage/retrieval. Warming something up (dirt or Sodium Acetate/H2O) doesn't even have to be all that efficient - if you have enough of it and enough pretty cheap "solar" heat collectors. Okay, I know, I know. Where do you get the energy to run the heat pump? Details! Details. Maybe some "little" batteries, ok?

It's my opinion that the closer you get to what you actually need the most of (let's say heat in winter or cooling in summer) the better off you are. Converting the sun's energy to electricity and storing it in batteries only to be turned back into electricity to run a chiller or heater or heat pump has a lot of inefficient steps - and is expensive. Dirt under your house is cheap and I'm guessing salt solutions that should last the lifetime of the system would not be a deal breaker vs Li ion or Ni metal hydride, etc. batteries that last 1000 cycles.

Just thinking out loud. We DO have some options. Break even points with "cheap" oil/gas has prevented us from looking too closely at them in my VERY humble opinion as YMMV

 

[Koolau]

Considering only the heating potential of solar (for dwellings): As you know solar hot water is viable - economically in a large swath of the US. We don't use much of it - even in the Islands where it would pay for itself in a very few years - because its ugly.

Thinking bigger - home heating, for instance, a better storage medium is probably various salt solutions - racking my brain to think of the one I saw in person about 30 years ago - (was it sodium acetate in H2O?) - I could look it up but too lazy. Anyway, heat collectors on the roof heat air which goes into the attic (insulated space) and "melts" salt solutions that look like plastic "cooler bricks" - thus storing heat or else the heat goes directly into the house - or both during sunny days. At night or cloudy days, the melted salts "freeze" giving off large amounts of heat to be directed into the house. The builder (don'tcha lovem!) claimed the system was viable ca. 1990. He said storage was good for at least 3 days - or more if you spring for more "bricks." I wasn't so sure since he didn't build any more. Still it was really cool (whoops, well, you know).

I think we could store heat underground as well. Solar hot water could heat the ground during the summer and on sunny days in winter while the geothermal system extracted heat as needed in winter. Maybe even a way to reverse the process in summer (might take a separate underground "field"). My point is "batteries" are high tech and expensive and not terribly efficient in storage/retrieval. Warming something up (dirt or Sodium Acetate/H2O) doesn't even have to be all that efficient - if you have enough of it and enough pretty cheap "solar" heat collectors. Okay, I know, I know. Where do you get the energy to run the heat pump? Details! Details. Maybe some "little" batteries, ok?

It's my opinion that the closer you get to what you actually need the most of (let's say heat in winter or cooling in summer) the better off you are. Converting the sun's energy to electricity and storing it in batteries only to be turned back into electricity to run a chiller or heater or heat pump has a lot of inefficient steps - and is expensive. Dirt under your house is cheap and I'm guessing salt solutions that should last the lifetime of the system would not be a deal breaker vs Li ion or Ni metal hydride, etc. batteries that last 1000 cycles.

Just thinking out loud. We DO have some options. Break even points with "cheap" oil/gas has prevented us from looking too closely at them in my VERY humble opinion as YMMV

Sorry, I forgot:

Returning you now to our discussion of the cold snap freezing half the nation! YMMV

 

[Walt34]

All I can do is sympathize with all the folks having power outages. So far we're in good shape and the outside temperature is a balmy 44°F. However, our turn starts tomorrow (Wednesday) night, when the snow and freezing rain start, and continues on through all of Thursday, Thursday night, and into Friday morning. But we still aren't going to see the low temperatures y'all are having and I haven't heard anything about shortages of either electricity or natural gas, which we use for heat, hot water, cooking and the clothes dryer.

I do have the 4kw Honda generator and enough gasoline to keep us going for two or even three days. I've never run it for more than 10 hours so I'm not sure what fuel consumption is with varying loads. The biggie to keep going of course is the furnace fan motor.