At Will Employment anyone use this option?

[2HOTinPHX]

So I am still working and contemplating retirement at end of September. Last goal post to complete is triple check month!
Logging into the matrix this AM and see one of those Corporate Communications emails. Lots of miscellaneous internal links to stuff. I clicked one regarding vacation time. It takes me to HR policies page. Out of curiosity I clicked on the At Will Employment link.

It's a pretty short page and kind of blunt. Could be me and Monday morning blahs but kinda feels cold.
Reads as follows:
What is the purpose of "Insert company name here" At Will Employment Policy?
The purpose of the Policy is to confirm that " " does not guarantee employment of any length nor does it guarantee work conditions or benefits.

What does At Will Employment mean? In means that your employment is voluntary and subject to termination by either you or the company, at any time, with or without notice. Company is not required to show cause for termination.

I Mean you pretty much know this in Arizona but seeing it in print on a Monday morning kinda hits home.

Wonder if anyone just came in their last day and announced today is my last day and I choose to exercise our At Will Employment policy.
Seems to me this might avoid the awkwardness of the two weeks notice zombie employee zone and any dreaded goodbye celebrations. In my case I work from home 4 out of 5 days and hardly even know my coworkers. When we are in office there is very little communication between us as we all have work to do... except some rather chatty people from other teams that are annoying to have to listen to.
I am quiet and not one for any sort of spot light on me and would rather slip out unnoticed. My work is not that critical and could easily be taken over by someone. I know I will never see these people again so why fake goodbyes and all that?
When someone leaves they usually try to do one of those dreaded potluck things. My view is the Company should spring for that sort of thing rather than rely on other employees to provide. Employees have enough going on in their personal lives and don't need this added pressure of what to bring to work. I know someone people enjoy this sort of stuff but I am not one of them... LOL

So has anyone else given same day notice? Regrets doing it? Glad you did?

 

[Spock]

Same day notice is viewed as unprofessional. Even with at will employment, there is usually an advance notice given unless you did something nasty or the company is poof bankrupt... which you can usually see coming and not be surprised. If the company and layoff is large enough a mandatory WARN notice is required.

 

[pacergal]

As they stated in their policy, the termination can be by either you or the company, so they must be ready for it.
If you are retiring, and sure you will not seek other employment, part-time or consult where you may need or want a reference, I don't think it would matter.

Some posters here have stated they were shown the door same day of notice, so that may be what your employer would do also.

 

[pb4uski]

I agree... same day notice is bush league and not how I would want to be remembered. Now some employers will ask you to leave once you give your notice, but IMO that is bush league too except in special circumstances.

I gave many months notice and it worked out great. I told them that I was leaving but was flexible on the date but my most important priority was that we both feel good about my leaving. While I didn't tell them this if it meant staying a few months longer I would have been fine with it since they were paying me a ton of money.

Within a couple days I had identified a successor for any of my projects that would last longer the I would.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

I hope that does come off as being bitter on a Monday morning...just waiting for a systems issue to be resolved so we can actually start working.... Mondays....ughhh.

It has been a pretty good company to work for with the exception of the frozen pension some years ago. They are pretty good to us overall. I am just ready to move on now to the next phase of life not having to long into the Matrix at 8 AM.

 

[Telly]

No, I never did.

The legal wording of "At will employment" does look brutal. However, it is usually tempered by many factors. Spock mentions some, particularly the federal WARN Act. Others are a desire to avoid a lawsuit, a bad reputation in an industry, etc.

I had to jump through many time and resource-gobbling tasks to terminate someone. PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) and the like. In the end, most people who performed very poorly, or were an unmitigated pain continuously, went out the door at the next recession-driven layoff. Not that bad things can't happen to good people, though, as management can have a rat(s) too!

Why leave under a mess, that may push some to handle your final paperwork less than carefully? I'd just give 2 weeks with a nicely written resignation, and take it real easy. They may "walk you out" early anyway, paid for the 2 weeks of course. And be sure to comply with all property returns, such as keys, badges, computer, whatever.

You're going to be FREE! FREE! Be happy!

 

[2HOTinPHX]

I agree it's better to give at least two weeks notice. In my last job I was in more of a key position and gave like two months notice to make sure the new guy I trained was good to go. I even gave him my phone number and said if you run into any issues you can reach out to me if needed.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

No, I never did.

The legal wording of "At will employment" does look brutal. However, it is usually tempered by many factors. Spock mentions some, particularly the federal WARN Act. Others are a desire to avoid a lawsuit, a bad reputation in an industry, etc.

I had to jump through many time and resource-gobbling tasks to terminate someone. PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) and the like. In the end, most people who performed very poorly, or were an unmitigated pain continuously, went out the door at the next recession-driven layoff. Not that bad things can't happen to good people, though, as management can have a rat(s) too!

Why leave under a mess, that may push some to handle your final paperwork less than carefully? I'd just give 2 weeks with a nicely written resignation, and take it real easy. They may "walk you out" early anyway, paid for the 2 weeks of course. And be sure to comply with all property returns, such as keys, badges, computer, whatever.

You're going to be FREE! FREE! Be happy!

I agree with this and will most likely be what I will be doing. Two weeks notice so I feel good about ending it that way and move on to the good life...

 

[Spock]

I agree... same day notice is bush league and not how I would want to be remembered. Now some employers will ask you to leave once you give your notice, but IMO that is bush league too except in special circumstances.
...

Reminds me of an early career event with my officemate.
The company (at the time THE largest computer hardware/software/services company) had a standard practice of de-badging and walking you to the door the day you gave notice for security reasons. Back then leaving was practically unheard off. You would get paid for the duration of your notice, but you weren't allowed in the building during that time.



So my officemate was plotting to quit and go back to no-where Kansas to take over his dad's car dealership. He had everything lined up for the move to the point the car was packed sitting out in the parking lot... he was expecting an immediate exit... and gave 3 weeks notice.



Well... since he wasn't going to work at a competitor and a few other factors, his manager told him that he wasn't going to processed out immediately. He would be expected to work for the duration of his notice. To say his wife waiting out in the car was not happy would be an understatement.

 

[athena53]

I agree with the others- no need for an abrupt same-day departure resignation if you like the organization. It also allows for a cleaner handoff of work to the people left behind, many of whom you probably like.

If they tell you it's your last day, well, at least you made the attempt to be professional. My brother had the opposite problem- they wanted him to hang around till they hired a replacement. He knew they'd take forever so he refused.

 

[easysurfer]

Doesn't at will mean you could technically quit or get fired at any time?

Though would be more polite if things didn't happen so suddenly.

 

[ERD50]

Wait a minute. Forget all the "should do", "can do" guilt-trip stuff. I think you are missing something IMPORTANT (unless I missed it!):

Sure, you *CAN* give zero day's notices, but... often times your contract will require X weeks notice in order for you to get certain benefits. So make absolutely certain you've met any requirements you care about, you could be giving up a lot, and it would be un-recoverable at that point (unless HR pointed it out, and asked you to reconsider).

Only you know the situation, if leaving with short notice works for you, and you've checked out the downsides, go with it. The company would drop you w/o notice in many cases, your contractual agreement is all that matters - it's business.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

Doesn't at will mean you could technically quit or get fired at any time? ...

Anyone can quit at anytime. Slavery was abolished in this country over 150 years ago!

The issue is, what does the contract you signed say? They can't force you to come to work, but they can withhold certain benefits (pay for accrued sick/vacation time?) if you don't comply with a stated notice time.

I agree with the others- no need for an abrupt same-day departure resignation if you like the organization. It also allows for a cleaner handoff of work to the people left behind, many of whom you probably like.

If they tell you it's your last day, well, at least you made the attempt to be professional. My brother had the opposite problem- they wanted him to hang around till they hired a replacement. He knew they'd take forever so he refused.

This just cracks me up - all the guilt-trip stuff over giving short notice, but "if the company does it" (which they often do), it's, "well..."

Look out for #1. You said your work could be taken over easily, so no big issue there. Even if you do find you need to put in X weeks for the benefits you want, you could ask that it be kept quiet if you don't want any fanfare or notice. I worked with a guy closely in a small group, very diligent, good worker, very quiet, and one Monday, he just wasn't there. I ask my boss, "He retired, Friday was his last day". The guy didn't want any attention.

In my case, I asked to be considered for a package, my boss worked it out, and my end date was, IIRC ~ 4 weeks out. I got a project that could be done in that time, and it was interesting to me, so I was very diligent in getting it done and all the documentation so it could be picked up. Even took some stuff home so if they had questions I could answer them. As far as I know, they never used any of it! I don't care, I was gone onto a new life.

-ERD50

 

[Al18]

Don’t assume that because some states have at will employment, they will escort you out the door once you’ve given notice. This rarely happens in my experience. You should give notice based on your interaction with the employer, position within the company, etc. I gave 4 months notice, though the final 3 months I only worked part-time.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

When I was still working the updated employee handbook was sent out and we all had to sign an acknowledgement that we understood that we were "At Will Employees". Needless to say long time employees were not happy, and did not want to sign it. The HR manager told me to have these people contact her and she made it perfectly clear that the choice was to sign or quit. I think she mentioned that we had been sued by an ex employee who had won the case and this was the result. Our location had been on the chopping board before and it seemed to me that there was more to it than that and sure enough about a year later, they closed our office with no advance notice. We did get severance pay as long as we agreed to mediation to resolve any disputes.
So if there is any chance of future layoffs or lawsuits, they may be covering themselves.

 

[MarieIG]

I have never worked for a megacorp or any large employer with any type of severance benefit beyond what might be required by law. I was not a key employee, and there was no reason for me to give more than two weeks notice. I always cleared out my office and removed personal files/ copied work which I wanted to preserve prior to giving notice.

I was either an independent contractor or at will employee. I always gave two weeks notice as a curtesy - with one exception.

This particular employer had a standard operating procedure of screaming (yes literally screaming insults) at any employee who gave notice and standing over them as they emptied out their desk(s). So, I found another job, finished up the pay cycle, called in and left a message with one of the secretaries that Monday morning I would not be returning.

 

[punkinhead]

I worked at Megacorps in an at will state my entire career. I lived through many downsizings, acquisitions, and one bankruptcy and never saw anyone let go with no notice or severance. Unless you work for a particularly crappy company I'd give the customary two week notice. Quitting without notice may inconvenience your boss and coworkers for a short time but don't kid yourself that you're hurting the company. You're just a small drop in a large sea.

 

[Telly]

Anyone can quit at anytime. Slavery was abolished in this country over 150 years ago!

The issue is, what does the contract you signed say? They can't force you to come to work, but they can withhold certain benefits (pay for accrued sick/vacation time?) if you don't comply with a stated notice time.


ERD50

In all my years as an "At Will Employee" across multiple employers, I never signed a contract.

Seems to me that being an "at will employee", and working under an employment contract, are mutually exclusive, aren't they?
I have worked for some companies that have had both at the same location. For example, manufacturing workers had an employment contract that governed these issues. Everyone else was "at will".

 

[easysurfer]

I never minded the at will arrangement. Cuts both ways. Like that old Fred Flintstone bit (I think it was there, might be a different show) .. "You're fired!" ... "You can't fire me, I quit!"

 

[pb4uski]

I had a contract but IIRC my contract stated that I was an at-will employee. Besides, by lawyer said it wasn't worth the paper that it was written on.

 

[Texas Proud]

This is standard here in Texas... it just means that you are not under a contract... either individually or through a union... nothing strange...


It also means that if you do something wrong they can tell you to pack up and go RIGHT NOW... or even escort you out and send your stuff...


Now, if the company has a policy to pay 2 weeks or more you still fall under their policy... but some have no extra money if you were at fault of doing something... IOW, get caught stealing you are out with no severance...

 

[ERD50]

In all my years as an "At Will Employee" across multiple employers, I never signed a contract.

Seems to me that being an "at will employee", and working under an employment contract, are mutually exclusive, aren't they?
I have worked for some companies that have had both at the same location. For example, manufacturing workers had an employment contract that governed these issues. Everyone else was "at will".

No, I don't think those are mutually exclusive. It's been a VERY long time since I got hired anywhere, but I know I signed some papers. I assume those papers had things like how much notice I had to give to receive certain benefits regarding profit sharing, unpaid vacation etc. Maybe some of that is covered by state law.

-ERD50

 

[njhowie]

The vast majority of employment today is at will. It is part of your employment agreement, so you should make use of it if you choose to. Ignore everyone telling you how unprofessional it is. You can be very sure that if the shoe were on the other foot, the company would have absolutely no trouble advising you at 4:59PM not to come to the office ever again - for no reason at all and you wouldn't have any recourse. Well you could try to fight it and/or sue, but you'd very likely lose.

So, again, if you feel the need, do not hesitate - quit whenever you like and it makes sense for you. If you do decide to go this route, be aware, if you are owed anything like vacation time, accrued sick time, or any other benefits, you may forfeit them or find it near impossible to collect on them.

 

[GalaxyBoy]

My state is at will. I’d give two week’s notice but be prepared to be shown the door. One of my employers wouldn’t pay off unused vacation, so you could always tell who was about to quit because they were the ones suddenly taking days (or weeks) off in non-typical vacation season.

 

[Aerides]

Seems to me this might avoid the awkwardness of the two weeks notice zombie employee zone and any dreaded goodbye celebrations. In my case I work from home 4 out of 5 days and hardly even know my coworkers. When we are in office there is very little communication between us as we all have work to do... except some rather chatty people from other teams that are annoying to have to listen to.
I am quiet and not one for any sort of spot light on me and would rather slip out unnoticed. My work is not that critical and could easily be taken over by someone. I know I will never see these people again so why fake goodbyes and all that?
When someone leaves they usually try to do one of those dreaded potluck things. My view is the Company should spring for that sort of thing rather than rely on other employees to provide. Employees have enough going on in their personal lives and don't need this added pressure of what to bring to work. I know someone people enjoy this sort of stuff but I am not one of them... LOL

It's only two weeks. You can handle it for the sake of your co-workers who might want to say goodbye, and they might not be fake. Decline the potluck idea if you like, but for two weeks, just be nice about it.