Falsely accused of extra guests

[ikubak]

This!. I haven't read all of the thread so I may have missed similar responses, but when I read the OP, I have to say that I CAN in fact understand that it may have looked to the host like there were 4 people trying to stay at that place. I suppose the OPs explanation for why 4 people, all with overnight luggage, walked into the property upon check-in does sound reasonable and I'm sure there was no ill-intent. However, one has to admit that this is a pretty unusual scenario. It certainly LOOKED like 4 people were planning on staying there. So, that was strike 1 as far as the hosts were concerned. Then, the OP's childish behavior of covering up the camera while his guests left the property, just tossed more fuel on the fire. After all, why would he behave that way unless he has something to hide? Then, after being warned about covering up cameras, he felt it necessary to again cover them up on the way in or out of the property. Strike 3.
I'm not saying I'm endorsing the use of cameras even outside, but I suspect this host has had bad experiences in the past that led him to install the cameras. As long as it is disclosed, it is up to the host to decide. The customer can then either rent the place or not. If he decides to rent, please play by the rules.

As far as trying to recover some of the money, I agree that a credit card dispute is probably to best path.

The host said he had six, 6 cameras and could see us coming and going even if the closeup crotch cam view was obstructed while people went up and down the stairs. We didn't have an issue with the other 5 cameras. We saw one pointed at our car and another at the parking lot. We always parked in the assigned parking space and could be seen. Why lie about how many people are there? Owner strike one.

Why did I stand infront of the crotch cam? DW didn't like it and felt it uncomfortable. I accommodated her and stood in front of it while she walked by. The camera gets a good closeup of your crotch when you're coming and your butt when you're leaving. I chose to let the owner look at my butt instead of DW's. Standing there doesn't break any law or house rules. Owner told me I had broken the law and he had police en route and he's pressing charges. Owner lied about local laws and local law enforcement. Owner strike two.

Why would we behave that way? We felt the camera was too close and intrusive. If I was trying to hide something I would have tried to obstruct the other 5 cameras, right?

I'll dispute and if the owner is asked for video from the 6 cameras it will be clear only two people stayed there. Owner strike three.


I appreciate all the comments. I think we all agree that following up with the CC company is a good route. I'm willing to let the lies and threats go (I can leave that in a review) but I don't feel I should pay for four guests. A receipt for final charges has been requested but so far no response.from the company.

 

[NW-Bound]

Why did I stand infront of the crotch cam? DW didn't like it and felt it uncomfortable. I accommodated her and stood in front of it while she walked by. The camera gets a good closeup of your crotch when you're coming and your butt when you're leaving. I chose to let the owner look at my butt instead of DW's...

If the camera position on the stairs is that close to you, I would have taken a photo of it too.


PS. Surveillance cameras are wide-angle. They do not give a zoomed-in view like you think.

 

[JRon]

Although I mostly use hotels, I’m with the OP on this one - I never dreamed I had to disclose non-overnight guests in a rented home, like I don’t in a hotel. The host was at minimum a liar for the police claim and probably a creep and deserves an honest review be left on their property page.

 

[ikubak]

If the camera position on the stairs is that close to you, I would have taken a photo of it too.

I didn't make an issue out of it. I'm ok with the owner looking at MY crotch and butt. DW, not so much.

 

[braumeister]

I'm basically a hotel person, but I've stayed in VRBO and AirBnB places a few times. Before actually booking anything, I've researched them as extensively as I could online. Sounds to me like the OP didn't do much advance checking and had an unfortunate experience as a result. Just one of those learning experiences we all go through.

 

[NW-Bound]

I have stayed in several Airbnbs in Europe, and loved it. I have not stayed in any Airbnb in the US, but was going to do it when travel resumes.

I never thought about clandestine cameras inside the house until this thread. This gets me thinking about the risk of voyeurism. Exterior cameras do not bother me.

 

[ncbill]

OP--
Based on what you have written, my "creep vibe" would be going, also.
I see absolutely no reason to have a camera at crotch level. If you want to see the landing/door area, put the camera up above. And asking why you covered up the cameras is a red alert, whether he was talking about the outside ones or not. Occuring after you covered the inside objects you felt might be cameras, is really disturbing to me.

And threatening you with police and eviction, which may have been illegal, is plain weird.
Although, at that point, if it were me, I would have just vacated the premises and found someplace else if at all possible.
I would dispute the charges with your CC, and write a letter to what ever rental entity does the advertising/intake/etc. And write a review, with just the facts as you found them.

I would quote the host's text threats as to the above, verbatim, in the review.

 

[tmm99]

I don't think the issue was standing in front of the outside entry camera. Rather I think the owner had two undisclosed inside cameras to spy on his guests, which the OP found and covered up. The owner virtually admitted as much when he said the OP had covered up the camera"s". I think very few people would ever describe momentarily standing in front of a single outside camera as "covering up the cameras".

I don't know where this occurred, but in some states, the owner would have committed a crime by recording the OP inside the unit without his consent.

This (in bold). Some kind of creep. Scary.

 

[Golden sunsets]

+1, except I would not bait him about going to court. I would definitely give him a scathing review---with mention of all the cameras.

+1000

 

[Golden sunsets]

So how much money are you out including the extra charge for your relatives as well as extra for subsequent nights at different lodgings that cost more than the original unit cost you agreed to?

 

[ikubak]

I am out maybe $100, probably less. DW and I ended up at my nephew's house 15 miles away on his floor with a blow up mattress.

You're probably thinking, dude, let it go. My brain is with you on that. It's a cheap lesson in the game of life. Let the next guy deal with him.

My heart on the other hand say guests should not be treated like that and the company needs to know about it.

 

[retire to nature]

Hold on are you saying friends or family shouldn't even enter the rental? Sleeping over is one thing, but visiting?

Correct, I would say to no to anyone to step into my place. As a host, if ppl lie how we would check? Do you carry birth certificate to prove siblings?

Have you thought how many ppl would lie to save their money for those nights?

It is communication to register how many ppl would enter to the house. As a host, it is very stressful to know who I am not aware of ppl coming into my place.

also, the extra non registered person could be a thief. so it matters to match the number and if somebody coming into the place, it has to be reported in advance.

 

[Walt34]

It is communication to register how many ppl would enter to the house. As a host, it is very stressful to know who I am not aware of ppl coming into my place.

If the "host" (and I use the term loosely here) is that concerned about strangers in his house then he is definitely in the wrong line of business renting it out.

As to the OP's options, it seems his best (and pretty much only) recourse is to contest the charge with the cc company and never rent from that guy again.

 

[braumeister]

My heart on the other hand say guests should not be treated like that and the company needs to know about it.

I don't think anyone would argue with that; feedback is important to any future customers. I give lavish praise when it's warranted, and I wouldn't hesitate to give the opposite if it were warranted. Just be factual and objective, and don't come across as irate.

 

[ikubak]

If the "host" (and I use the term loosely here) is that concerned about strangers in his house then he is definitely in the wrong line of business renting it out.

As to the OP's options, it seems his best (and pretty much only) recourse is to contest the charge with the cc company and never rent from that guy again.

Bingo! We have a winner! [emoji3]

 

[ivinsfan]

Correct, I would say to no to anyone to step into my place. As a host, if ppl lie how we would check? Do you carry birth certificate to prove siblings?

Have you thought how many ppl would lie to save their money for those nights?

It is communication to register how many ppl would enter to the house. As a host, it is very stressful to know who I am not aware of ppl coming into my place.

also, the extra non registered person could be a thief. so it matters to match the number and if somebody coming into the place, it has to be reported in advance.

well I won't be renting from you...plenty of other people to rent from.

 

[pb4uski]

....It seems you have a sense of entitlement about possibly breaking the rules by letting others on the premises with their luggage without notifying the host. ....

I totally disagree. If I rent a hotel room and have another couple come up, even with their luggage, to freshen up, we go for walk and then we all go out to dinner and they bring their luggage out with them when we go to dinner... that is absolutely no problem at all and not against any rules. People do it all the time. Why do you think it is a problem?

 

[retire to nature]

If the "host" (and I use the term loosely here) is that concerned about strangers in his house then he is definitely in the wrong line of business renting it out.

As a host, we can reject to accept booking if we dont feel comfortable. So during conversation, I would feel comfortable and accept. But if the guest bring more without preapproval, it definitely would make the host stressful.

Airbnb has no discrimination rules, so no picture before booking etc. or I am not sure if they are criminal because requirement is ID only which is same as hotel though. And if host keep reject booking they get disadvantage not being super host etc.

so there is still chance to have bad ppl in my property. Seriously, there is an occasion has to call police etc.

ppl would think accommodation business as relaxed travel, but it could be who doesnt have home, they wanna book too.

 

[pb4uski]

...I'll admit I wasn't myself. The day prior to arriving I had served on a grand jury and convicted a man of murder. ...

Since when do grand juries convict?

 

[Golden sunsets]

I am out maybe $100, probably less. DW and I ended up at my nephew's house 15 miles away on his floor with a blow up mattress.

You're probably thinking, dude, let it go. My brain is with you on that. It's a cheap lesson in the game of life. Let the next guy deal with him.

My heart on the other hand say guests should not be treated like that and the company needs to know about it.

Life is short. Dispute the charge, and move on.

 

[pb4uski]

....You're probably thinking, dude, let it go. My brain is with you on that. It's a cheap lesson in the game of life. Let the next guy deal with him. ...

No, I wouldn't let it go. I would do everything that I could and follow alot of Gumby's suggestions regarding the legality of the cameras that the host had and do as much as I could to make his life a living hell... for the fun of it.

 

[travelover]

I am not with you on this one.

It seems you chose to see security cameras as negative It seems you have a sense of entitlement about possibly breaking the rules by letting others on the premises with their luggage without notifying the host. You could have instead chosen be thankful that the owner cared about their property enough to spend time and money to protect it and to catch illegal activity, and perhaps to protect you as well. Deliberately standing in front of a security camera and making faces at security cameras was unnecessarily hostile. It could be your hostility triggered the expulsion from the unit, not the just presence of others. But the presence of others in the unit may have been a breach of contract, allowing the owner to expel you.

We are only hearing one side of the story. I agree cameras should be disclosed, but apparently it is not against AirBNB policy, even in certain inside areas.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...ens-when-you-find-cameras-your-airbnb/585007/

Perhaps if you had apologized to the host, and let the host know there would be another couple inside briefly between the airport and your dinner reservation it would have helped. Also, your brother and sister-in-law carried their bags into the place, which was a concern for the owner. Since you had made a point of blocking the cameras, the owner felt you might be hiding something and made the choice to expel you.

I've only stayed in such a rental unit once, through Home Away, and we were treated exceptionally well. The owner checked with us before, during, and after our stay through the website, left a free bottle of wine, some chocolates and a small bottle of rum in addition to spices and condiments for our use. The owner made sure we had a good experience and we made sure to respect the owner's lovely property while we were there. It was made clear to us that no one besides us was allowed on the premises.

Make a stink if you want, but you may not get very far. We cannot change the behavior of others, but we can change our own behavior to have better experiences.

I disagree.
Having a couple of people over is no big deal. They didn't stay over night and there was no party or other commotion. It cost the "host" nothing.

Having inside cameras is outrageous and as some have pointed out, may be illegal. This is not a supermarket looking for shoplifters, this is an intimate, private setting.

Saying the cops were called and threatening a lawsuit was the nuclear option. That had to have caused a lot of emotional stress to the OP. Also depending on where you fall on the American caste scale, having the cops come can mean a lot of different things. Remember Karen in Central Park reporting the birdwatcher to the police?

I've stayed in a lot of AirBNBs and would never stand for this kind of abuse. The "host" is definitely in the wrong line of business.

 

[pb4uski]

Correct, I would say to no to anyone to step into my place. As a host, if ppl lie how we would check? Do you carry birth certificate to prove siblings?

Have you thought how many ppl would lie to save their money for those nights?

It is communication to register how many ppl would enter to the house. As a host, it is very stressful to know who I am not aware of ppl coming into my place.

also, the extra non registered person could be a thief. so it matters to match the number and if somebody coming into the place, it has to be reported in advance.

Then I would never rent from you. When I rent, I am renting the property and if specified a stated number of people overnight... but if I want to have some friends and family over to socialize and they don't stay overnight then I will... and we will respect your property and leave it as we found it (or cleaner). If that make you uncomfortable then you shouldn't be in that business.

ETA: I guess that makes at least two of us.... you're on a roll.

 

[braumeister]

We don't know the company involved here, but this is from the AirBnB policy:

Always be mindful of your guests' privacy. Fully disclose whether there are security cameras or other surveillance equipment at or around your listing. Make sure you are aware of and comply with applicable federal, state, and local laws.

 

[retire to nature]

If the "host" (and I use the term loosely here) is that concerned about strangers in his house then he is definitely in the wrong line of business renting it out.

I live in the same airbnb building. When I got out of my room in the early morning, I ran into whom I am not aware of it. I am not sure if this person is a thief or somebody's guest because the one was alone since he was sneaking out. So if the guest, who invited his friend over and slept the night without approval, informed me in advance, I wouldn't be upset.

I am not accusing all ppl as bad. The guest is good one but just dont wanna bother to get approval which could be a short text. most of case in advance, host would say yes.

would you guys bother those? did OP bother?

so host has to be treated this way?? guest is not respecting host, then host would kick not to bother guest inconvenience.