Advice for an 85 year old

[teetee]

We got Dad an electric kettle, the kind with a base so you can pick it up without cord so no plugging/unplugging, and it was cool to the touch so won't burn yourself from the outside, came with autoshut off.

We got him an electric kettle in the past too but its auto shutoff and quiet operation did not quite fit in his life. He would turn it on hoping for a hot tea and then 3 hours later found him forgetting all about it.

The traditional style kettle for the stove with the whistle works for now but some day we imagine when he finally lose it and decides to take shower while the water is boiling, and then falls when he rushes to step out to turn it off.

 

[braumeister]

We got him an electric kettle in the past too but its auto shutoff and quiet operation did not quite fit in his life. He would turn it on hoping for a hot tea and then 3 hours later found him forgetting all about it.

The traditional style kettle for the stove with the whistle works for now but some day we imagine when he finally lose it and decides to take shower while the water is boiling, and then falls when he rushes to step out to turn it off.

Might be a situation where a Keurig machine would work. It will give you a practically instant cup of hot water (with no K-pod inserted). Simple, cheap, and reliable.

 

[harllee]

At my mother's CCRC independent living apartment she has a small kitchen with a stove and microwave. One neighbor has burnt food twice and the fire alarms went off and they had to evacuate the building. The neighbor has now been told that if she burns something one more time she will have to be moved to an assisted living apartment that has no cooking facilities. I guess it is three "strikes" you're out.

 

[teetee]

At my mother's CCRC independent living apartment she has a small kitchen with a stove and microwave. One neighbor has burnt food twice and the fire alarms went off and they had to evacuate the building. The neighbor has now been told that if she burns something one more time she will have to be moved to an assisted living apartment that has no cooking facilities. I guess it is three "strikes" you're out.

It is similar to the rules at my grandfather's apartment. The key is not to open the door when the kitchen smoke alarm goes off. If the smoke escape the apartment and triggers the alarm on the hallway, then evacuation, fire engines occur.

He now knows the only things to do when the alarm goes off (he lost his ability to smell long ago), is to shut the stove off, open the windows and blow the detector with the handheld fan. He only opens the door when there is no way to contain the fire.

 

[stephenson]

It depends.

If I was that person, I would want to live in a single floor, 1000-1200 SF house with a two car garage (one for car and one for stuff).

But, I would be conscious of the need for money to have things fixed, have food delivered, be able to buy prepared foods, get care at the house, etc.

BUT - alone, I might be lonely - I would be lonely - UNLESS I was able to get out enough. This, I think is what changes.

 

[gooddog]

This is an excellent thread, with many good replies. The assisted living/CCRC facilities have the added bonus of a peer group. Playing cards (or whatever) with people who have common beliefs and values goes a long way to making a place feel like a home.

 

[harllee]

This is an excellent thread, with many good replies. The assisted living/CCRC facilities have the added bonus of a peer group. Playing cards (or whatever) with people who have common beliefs and values goes a long way to making a place feel like a home.

The companionship in an assisted living/CCRC means so much. At my mother's CCRC they had a Memorial Day BBQ today with music and games. My mother called me so excited. It was the first big event they had had since the pandemic.

 

[marion10]

A good place to start is your local Area Office on Aging. (AOA)Just google that phrase and her county and state. They can give you lists of facilities. Every county has one. I will agree with others that a CCRC might be ideal if she can afford it and it’s close to where she lives now to keep up those social contacts. She also needs to think about healthcare and financial representatives if she cannot make decisions for herself. This is also a time to find out ( again using that AOA contacts about services in your area- meals on wheels, home chore service, transportation etc. This can help her decide about a facility or just moving to a one story place. My 83 year old mother ( though she has children near) in in a villa home-one story and exterior maintenance is done. She’s learned to order groceries on the internet and her town has very good transportation services which she uses in the winter of doctor appointments and grocery shopping.

 

[2retireearly]

Yes, assisted living, also known as personal care, is a higher level of care, but not as high as a full nursing care facility.
My MIL has been in assisted living for years. It is more expensive than independent living. They manage medications for a price. Assist with mobility issues and memory care. They’ll change adult diapers if needed and assist bathing if needed. It is not covered by Medicaid, but is a step before full nursing care.

I'm thinking you mean Medicare, but you (I am sure in error) said Medicaid....Medicaid is a whole different subject. I have never heard of Medicare ever paying for any Independent (you mentioned MediCARE in your first writing) or any Assisted Living. They will pay for 3 months in a Rehab, if totally necessary. That's it. I won't get into Medicaid, as that does not seem to be a part of his question.

 

[SecondCor521]

I'd suggest OP start looking now. As they alluded to, the better places often have waiting lists and it could be a few months before a spot opens up. For my Dad's CCRC I think you have to put down a $1K deposit to get on the list. As places open up, the just go down the waiting list until they have a taker. His place has been full or nearly so for 15 years.

If she can manage her daily life and just doesn't like stairs or outside home maintenance, then independent living is probably the place for now. My Dad is 85 and is in independent living now.

He basically lives in a nice apartment. It has a full kitchen but he just eats meals in the dining area, which is essentially a built in restaurant. He does his laundry, but they vacuum, change light bulbs, and do light housekeeping once a week. Pull cords in various places if he falls, which happens occasionally. Staff keeps an eye out and if they haven't heard from you or seen you on any given day then they check in.

Bus rides to the grocery stores and doctor visits. Activities and events regularly. Hair salon, pool tables, exercise room, swimming pool, snack bar, miniature pub, mini golf course, walking paths. In the wintertime he sometimes brags about not having been outside in three months and hadn't any need to.

Hospital 800 yards away. Pharmacy delivers. Restaurants 1 mile away.

Beyond that, assisted living is when you're either a danger to yourself (falls, leaving the stove on) or need help with daily stuff like remembering to take medicine, showering, toileting, dressing transferring into/from bed. At my Dad's place, the rooms are much smaller and no kitchen facilities. The base price is maybe 25% more, and then you add on for each ADL category you need help with.

Beyond that, there's memory care, which is 24/7 care and locked doors for safety. I think it's even more expensive but I haven't need to ask about that yet.

 

[Major Tom]

I don't have any useful info to contribute to this thread, but just wanted to say what a joy it is to see so many people helping out with detailed and useful information on this subject. It is interesting, and potentially useful for many of us. It's a mark of the caliber of membership here, how so much good information is imparted in these threads.

 

[MarshaSGreen]

Harllee: “My mother called me so excited. It was the first big event they had had since the pandemic.” That is so cute. While my Mom never quite got her mojo working in assisted living, she was in a very nice facility. I miss my Mom.

 

[Dash man]

I'm thinking you mean Medicare, but you (I am sure in error) said Medicaid....Medicaid is a whole different subject. I have never heard of Medicare ever paying for any Independent (you mentioned MediCARE in your first writing) or any Assisted Living. They will pay for 3 months in a Rehab, if totally necessary. That's it. I won't get into Medicaid, as that does not seem to be a part of his question.

I meant Medicaid, which will pay for skilled nursing care, but not for assisted living. Medicare will pay for rehab as you said for about 100 days. The government doesn’t pay for assisted living or independent living.

 

[blueskyk]

I second the recommendation for facilities run by religious communities. My stepmom had advanced MS and lived in independent living in a great place run by Good Samaritan. She hired a la carte services as she needed and had a gorgeous one bedroom apartment with a kitchenette and balcony. I’d say it was about 850 sq ft. The shocker - it was about $1700 a month. If you wanted to eat in the (very nice) dining area, you could either purchase a full meal plan or get a punch card.

I can’t say enough about waiting lists. It seems people often assume once they make the decision to move, the option will be immediately available. The best ones won’t be.

Looking back, some of the absolute best money spent by my folks was a consultation with an elder law attorney. It was about $300 an hour and they received excellent advice (I attended with them) on assisted living facilities, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, trusts, managing assets for a disabled child, etc. The attorney’s own mother was in the Good Samaritan facility.

The Good Samaritan Society has a lot of great info on navigating this phase of life - just google them. Be sure you scroll past the thousand or so assisted living sites not related to the actual society when you search.

 

[folly]

Senior Housing

My mother lives in Senior Independent Housing. She is happy there. In the beginning she was active in exercise classes and group get togethers. Meals are provided in a central dinning area. She rents a 1BR apt complete with a kitchen and her own laundry room. Everyone rents. There is a bus to take her to the doctors and some shopping. It is is very expensive, although you have to add up what you would pay on your own to do a financial comparison. Her rent is $3500 a month. This covers everything. Her only expenses are her supplemental health insurance, occasional taxi or transportation cost and snacks that she might like to have and of course taxes. As she aged she choose to no longer participates in much, she is losing interest in the group dining and wants more food in her apartment and she does not like the group transportation because she feels uncomfortable not being able to step up into the bus without help. I feel she needs to be more confident and ask for what she needs but she will not. She can also hire a health care aid if needed to assist her in her home. I feel this is a better situation than going to a nursing or assisted living home. She purchased nursing home insurance years ago and it will most likely go unused as where she is at seems to be working well. My husband and myself own a place in a condo building where you must be 62 or older to live. No services. We purchased it as an option for later life. We have no problem renting it. The people who live there usually stay until they die. There is no building staff. Neighbors help each other out. The city has several services and transportation programs. Meals on wheels, etc. It is cheaper to live where you own the condo. No one can kick you out and say you need to go to assisted living. If money is not an issue I would say go to a independent apt style place. If finances are a concern I would purchase a condo in a senior housing building. There are a lot of programs out there for seniors the problem is understanding and finding them. I have considered volunteering at a senior center or aging organization just so I can figure out what is there.

 

[PointBreeze]

Another comment re: waiting lists. My parents now live in a CCRC run by a religious organization. They had to wait 3 years to get into the independent living portion. I’m so glad I pushed them to get on the waiting list way back when. It was hard at their age to down-size from a four bedroom house to a small two-bedroom patio home, and I’m so relieved that they did it when they were 84 instead of now at 87.

 

[SecondCor521]

The other thing to add is that people might wait to move in to a CCRC until they need to and then they face the waiting list issue. And of course moving is harder when you're older and more frail.

I'm thankful that my parents both moved into their CCRC and gave up driving way before they needed to. It was a lot less stress on everyone.

 

[nwsteve]

The other thing to add is that people might wait to move in to a CCRC until they need to and then they face the waiting list issue. And of course moving is harder when you're older and more frail.

If a CCRC is your target senior living plan, the equation is not only complicated by wait lists but also both members of a couple passing a cognitive and health assessment. Some of the type B properties may have more flexibility, but Type "A" properties (Life Care) are generally pretty thorough on the risk assessment as the property is guaranteeing no cost increase regardless of your health status. (you pay the same in Memory Care as you did in Independent living.

 

[harllee]

If a CCRC is your target senior living plan, the equation is not only complicated by wait lists but also both members of a couple passing a cognitive and health assessment. Some of the type B properties may have more flexibility, but Type "A" properties (Life Care) are generally pretty thorough on the risk assessment as the property is guaranteeing no cost increase regardless of your health status. (you pay the same in Memory Care as you did in Independent living.

You are exactly right Steve, this is one reason we are not going to wait too long to move into a CCRC. The CCRC where we want to move is a Type A Life Care and has stringent admissions requirement and a long waiting list. Friends of ours in their mid 70s tried to get in but the wife could not pass the cognitive test (she was later diagnosed with beginning dementia) so they had to move to a less desirable place.

 

[harllee]

The other thing to add is that people might wait to move in to a CCRC until they need to and then they face the waiting list issue. And of course moving is harder when you're older and more frail.

I'm thankful that my parents both moved into their CCRC and gave up driving way before they needed to. It was a lot less stress on everyone.

Yes I am also very glad my mother moved into the CCRC years ago. On the other hand at age 90 she is still driving a little so that may be an issue.

 

[SecondCor521]

If a CCRC is your target senior living plan, the equation is not only complicated by wait lists but also both members of a couple passing a cognitive and health assessment. Some of the type B properties may have more flexibility, but Type "A" properties (Life Care) are generally pretty thorough on the risk assessment as the property is guaranteeing no cost increase regardless of your health status. (you pay the same in Memory Care as you did in Independent living.

I'm single so I didn't even think about that.

There was a period of time where my Dad was fine in independent living but my Mom was declining and probably would have gone into assisted living were it not for hospice.

That presented a bit of a conundrum for a bit as having two different living places is super expensive, and living in assisted living when you're not there yet is a bit depressing and also more expensive than needed.

In our case, hospice is what made it work, and my Mom was able to stay in their apartment until she passed away.

 

[nwsteve]

We ended up moving in two years early to a new property operated by an established CCRC non profit DW was itching to to get closer to the Grands (300 miles from home then) and we did not want the hassle of moving twice in our 70's. The early decision allowed us to avoid a waitlist as well as have capture favorable pricing and choice of units.
Another benefit of a new property we have recognized is the lack of any established cliques--everyone is new. The average age of our CCRC is about 5 years less than our 25 yr old sister property which has a 250 person waiting list. Since we are already in the youngest 25% having an overall younger population adds an element of vitality we did not see in our sister CCRC

 

[jayanu]

Sounds like your friend is a prime candidate for a CCRC (Continuing Care Retirement Community). She can move at first to an independent living type apt, where she does all her cooking and cleaning. They have activities, shopping trips on the CCRC van/bus, and she can even have her own car for this level. Then to the assisted living where she might have the food and maid services, typically go eat in a common area. Can still have the option for activities and the shopping, along with help for medical needs. Then if needed to higher level care. All at the same place, once you get in and are settled, they take care of you even if you run out of money and become medicaid.

I concur!

You can read my 44+ page document on this. What happens in old age, what is CCRC, Types of CCRC, Long Term Care Insurance, Info about the CCRC where we live etc.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TkRo92IWiiSWGh6QrfqN-YDpq0ge34HLmz0-zvkYnU4/edit?usp=sharing

My 84-year-old cousin just moved to the Type-A CCRC where we live. For his ~900 Sq ft one-bedroom apartment he paid $140K non-refundable entrance fee (actually prorated at 2%/month, so after 2 years if he moves out he gets 50% back but none after 4 years). There are 33% and 90% refund options at higher entrance fee cost.

His monthly is ~$2,100 without meal plan or ~$2,400/month with meal plan. This covers loads of amnesties in 210 acres (2,400 residents) like 11 restaurants, 2 cafés, 4 two hundred seat auditoriums, one 500 seat modern theater, 2 indoor and 1 outdoor pool, 5 smaller gyms and one large gym, 6 lanes bowling alley, tennis courts, badminton, pickle ball, volleyball courts, two ballroom dancing halls, three banks, billiards, indoor and out door shuffle boards, giant barn for parties, golf simulator, 2 pharmacies (home delivery), 24 hr Registered nurse - will come in 5 minutes if you pull the cord from any of the rooms or bathroom, Arcade, three large wood shops, Art Studios, craft rooms, Card game rooms, more than 100 clubs to keep you occupied, nightly movie at 8 PM, 2-3 music program/week including Lancaster Symphony or other musical groups from Jazz to Rock, to Classical music, Educational programs including One Day University course, - and more, all included in the monthly fee.

No property tax, no HOA fees, no utility cost, no outside maintenance from landscaping to pest control to snow removal, no home insurance cost (renter's insurance required as well as Medicare and supplemental/advantage plan) etc. Appliance repair, changing bulbs twice a year filter change, battery change for alarms, recharging/replacement of the fire extinguisher, etc. all included.

Subsidized 3 hair salons, 9 hole golf course, free shuttle to local medical doctors and shopping, fully paid travel for the qualified residents to participate in the Senior Olympics and more. Our petrol cost in 2019 was $300 - mainly for trips to NJ (2020 was a waster year!).

PLUS your (if needed) Personal Care (Assisted Living), Skilled Nursing Care (Nursing Home), Dementia Ward, and Hospice - ALL[/B] included in the monthly fee regardless of the cost in the outside world and no matter how long. Subsidized in-home care. There are five medical facilities with ~500 beds.

Cable ~$35/month, Internet (100/5 Mbps) ~$32/month, landline phone ~$30/month (who has that anymore - everyone has cell phone or VoIP phone like Ooma or Vonage), Housecleaning ~$30/hr., Handyman service
~ $37/hr., personal trainer ~$20/hr, etc.

Part of the Entrance fee and part of the monthly fees are considered as Pre Qualified medical expense, so we can itemize to get a tax break. PA does NOT tax Pension, Social Security of RMDs for IRA. It does not have estate tax, but does have inheritance tax (~4% for lineal heirs to ~15% non-lineal heirs).

Our auto insurance dropped drastically compared to NJ.

Last year in April they announced 88 new villas and all were sold by September before the construction started. Now they are creating 120 new apartments. They just announced two major construction projects. 20-story apartment building in downtown Lancaster to be completed in 2-3 years, followed by a European style "open space" Dementia facility in 4-5 years.

It is NOT for Profit Private CCRC with A rating from Fitch,~99% Occupancy, and does NOT take Medicaid patients, has 5 star from CMS. Newsweek chose it number one in PA (PA has the highest number of CCRC 33/2000 in the USA)

PLEASE READ MY DOCUMENT TO GET MORE DETAILS.
I think your friend or any of us are good candidates. Age requirement is 55+, younger crowd come for the amenities and guaranteed medical care in old age. They work locally or remotely.

If there is any neurological symptoms (Dementia or Parkinson) then this or any other CCRC will not accept, but once you are in and develop these then no problem,

The beauty is that whether you take a Studio ($99K Entrance fee) or a $700K Villa, EVERYONE gets the same amenities and medical care.

The regrets from everyone is that why didn't we move earlier!

Hope this helps you.
Thanks.
Love
Jay Shah

 

[Nick12]

My 90-yo DM just moved into assisted living on Monday. The facility seems more like a hotel, with lots of common areas for lounging, dining exercise room, entertainment room, activities room, a beauty salon, etc. They even have an artificial putting green on one of the two outside patios.

Her "room" is 328sf and includes a kitchenette, a large bathroom with walk-in shower and a 11'x15'9" living/bedroom. They also have loads of activities. So far she really likes it.

She is at the first of four levels of care... with level four being just a tad below nursing home care as I understand it. IIRC the cost is ~$3,500-4,000/month and each additional level adds ~$400/month. About 1/4 of the facility is dedicated to memory care.

That's a great deal. I priced out similar offerings in the Northeast and it is $400 per day.

 

[bmcgonig]

I concur!



You can read my 44+ page document on this. What happens in old age, what is CCRC, Types of CCRC, Long Term Care Insurance, Info about the CCRC where we live etc.



https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TkRo92IWiiSWGh6QrfqN-YDpq0ge34HLmz0-zvkYnU4/edit?usp=sharing



My 84-year-old cousin just moved to the Type-A CCRC where we live. For his ~900 Sq ft one-bedroom apartment he paid $140K non-refundable entrance fee (actually prorated at 2%/month, so after 2 years if he moves out he gets 50% back but none after 4 years). There are 33% and 90% refund options at higher entrance fee cost.



His monthly is ~$2,100 without meal plan or ~$2,400/month with meal plan. This covers loads of amnesties in 210 acres (2,400 residents) like 11 restaurants, 2 cafés, 4 two hundred seat auditoriums, one 500 seat modern theater, 2 indoor and 1 outdoor pool, 5 smaller gyms and one large gym, 6 lanes bowling alley, tennis courts, badminton, pickle ball, volleyball courts, two ballroom dancing halls, three banks, billiards, indoor and out door shuffle boards, giant barn for parties, golf simulator, 2 pharmacies (home delivery), 24 hr Registered nurse - will come in 5 minutes if you pull the cord from any of the rooms or bathroom, Arcade, three large wood shops, Art Studios, craft rooms, Card game rooms, more than 100 clubs to keep you occupied, nightly movie at 8 PM, 2-3 music program/week including Lancaster Symphony or other musical groups from Jazz to Rock, to Classical music, Educational programs including One Day University course, - and more, all included in the monthly fee.



No property tax, no HOA fees, no utility cost, no outside maintenance from landscaping to pest control to snow removal, no home insurance cost (renter's insurance required as well as Medicare and supplemental/advantage plan) etc. Appliance repair, changing bulbs twice a year filter change, battery change for alarms, recharging/replacement of the fire extinguisher, etc. all included.



Subsidized 3 hair salons, 9 hole golf course, free shuttle to local medical doctors and shopping, fully paid travel for the qualified residents to participate in the Senior Olympics and more. Our petrol cost in 2019 was $300 - mainly for trips to NJ (2020 was a waster year!).



PLUS your (if needed) Personal Care (Assisted Living), Skilled Nursing Care (Nursing Home), Dementia Ward, and Hospice - ALL[/B] included in the monthly fee regardless of the cost in the outside world and no matter how long. Subsidized in-home care. There are five medical facilities with ~500 beds.



Cable ~$35/month, Internet (100/5 Mbps) ~$32/month, landline phone ~$30/month (who has that anymore - everyone has cell phone or VoIP phone like Ooma or Vonage), Housecleaning ~$30/hr., Handyman service

~ $37/hr., personal trainer ~$20/hr, etc.



Part of the Entrance fee and part of the monthly fees are considered as Pre Qualified medical expense, so we can itemize to get a tax break. PA does NOT tax Pension, Social Security of RMDs for IRA. It does not have estate tax, but does have inheritance tax (~4% for lineal heirs to ~15% non-lineal heirs).



Our auto insurance dropped drastically compared to NJ.



Last year in April they announced 88 new villas and all were sold by September before the construction started. Now they are creating 120 new apartments. They just announced two major construction projects. 20-story apartment building in downtown Lancaster to be completed in 2-3 years, followed by a European style "open space" Dementia facility in 4-5 years.



It is NOT for Profit Private CCRC with A rating from Fitch,~99% Occupancy, and does NOT take Medicaid patients, has 5 star from CMS. Newsweek chose it number one in PA (PA has the highest number of CCRC 33/2000 in the USA)



PLEASE READ MY DOCUMENT TO GET MORE DETAILS.

I think your friend or any of us are good candidates. Age requirement is 55+, younger crowd come for the amenities and guaranteed medical care in old age. They work locally or remotely.



If there is any neurological symptoms (Dementia or Parkinson) then this or any other CCRC will not accept, but once you are in and develop these then no problem,



The beauty is that whether you take a Studio ($99K Entrance fee) or a $700K Villa, EVERYONE gets the same amenities and medical care.



The regrets from everyone is that why didn't we move earlier!



Hope this helps you.

Thanks.

Love

Jay Shah

Great information. Thanks!

What’s the name of the place your cousin lives?