Good BBC video on FIRE

[kevink]

Apologies in advance if this has already been posted and I somehow missed it, but this came my way via a Mr. Money Mustache post and I thought it was very good:

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p09qwdp6/playing-with-fire-the-millennial-movement-to-quit-work?fbclid=IwAR1LD_KB_vEUk-zrBAqbYj2TjzjpjltRRdQ3aYTF08Cs0Mzg1pcGP-5w_Cc

IMHO it's a good "bookend" to any number of stories of late criticizing FIRE folks for being naive, selfish, etc. Could be a good thing to share with friends and family who have a hard time understanding folks who've chosen not to live the usual American lifestyle of debt and conspicuous consumption.

 

[braumeister]

How about a brief summary in your own words?

 

[ut2sua]

It is a pretty good clip on FIRE. It talks about things that most on this forum have already known: Time could be more valuable than $. It is a choice that gives more freedom not only because one has more time, but also to be independent of MC (which could let folks go anytime, so not a super reliable source of $). The FI comes from making your $ to work for you (by investing). 25X of spending was mentioned at the needed amount to FIRE (even though some folks in the videos are in the 30's or 40's). A frugal FIRE life style is more liberating and rewarding than a more luxurious, traditional life style for some who chose to FIRE. I am sure I miss quite a few other points....

 

[jazz4cash]

Dinks.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

How about a brief summary in your own words?

It seems pretty well summarized to me.

 

[Major Tom]

Dinks.

One of the couples in the video have kids, as well as supporting the husband's mother. This couple stated that they had a "more flexible approach to F.I.R.E." The husband talked about how, the bigger your expenses are, the more complex it can be to make things work (no kidding!) I took all of this to perhaps mean that they were not fully independent from paid work. Nevertheless, the message from the video is what many of us, as well as previous generations, have long known - the more you save, the bigger of a financial cushion you will have. It never hurts to keep making that point.

 

[tmm99]

I also got the message from one of the couples that their goal was to save A LOT in a shorter amount of time, which probably means they made more sacrifices upfront compared to other people who save less and work for more years.

I really liked the vid. People featured were all young-ish and decided to be creative with their lives. All LBYM kind of people. One mentioned travelling in Portugal, Poland and Thailand for about 20K/year for a few years. Another mentioned driving a cheaper vehicle, doing his own repairs, etc. Another mentioned that his new lifestyle allows him to spend more time with his child. They've decided to get off the beaten path by doing something different.

Personally, I have never had a desire to keep up with the Joneses, and I think that's why I am where I am today. It's not an extravagant lifestyle, but it suits me well.

It would have been even better if the segment delved more into the details of their lives, but it was a very short video, so it is what it is...

 

[kevink]

Dinks.

Pete Adeney (aka Mr. Money Mustache) is a divorced father and as mentioned by others having kids and pursuing FIRE isn't at all uncommon.

Really the FIRE acronym ought to be replaced or at least supplemented with more inclusive phrases - of which the best I've heard over the years is "Lifetime Semi-Retirement." Bob Clyatt, whose book "Work Less, Live More" and frequent posts on these very boards starting nearly two decades ago were hugely influential, has long been an articulate advocate of that approach, which several in the video are pursuing. Rather than "retiring" they're looking at financial independence as a tool to support doing work (for pay or otherwise) they truly love rather than being wage slaves.

And yeah, it's a short video but I enjoyed the snapshots of folks and the considerable variety of approaches they're pursuing.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Pete Adeney (aka Mr. Money Mustache) is a divorced father and as mentioned by others having kids and pursuing FIRE isn't at all uncommon.

Really the FIRE acronym ought to be replaced or at least supplemented with more inclusive phrases - of which the best I've heard over the years is "Lifetime Semi-Retirement." Bob Clyatt, whose book "Work Less, Live More" and frequent posts on these very boards starting nearly two decades ago were hugely influential, has long been an articulate advocate of that approach, which several in the video are pursuing. Rather than "retiring" they're looking at financial independence as a tool to support doing work (for pay or otherwise) they truly love rather than being wage slaves.

And yeah, it's a short video but I enjoyed the snapshots of folks and the considerable variety of approaches they're pursuing.

I wouldn't call MMM (Pete) FIRE'd for the simple fact that he has about 15 projects going at any given time, so I agree...that term is really not applicable to a LOT of people. This isn't to say he could be full-on FIRE (if he wanted to) but I wouldn't say he is retired in the traditional sense of the word.

I also don't really agree with folks being categorized in any given way considering the many routes one may take to be FI and/or RE.

I am slightly curious how many of the folks on the videos have blogs/YT channels and such?

 

[jollystomper]

I am slightly curious how many of the folks on the videos have blogs/YT channels and such?

I agree.

I remember back at the height of the pandemic, some "FIRE" folks were panicking because suddenly their side gigs were drying up... and it was impacting their ability to support themselves. That is why, in my view, it may not be true "FIRE".

I have not yet seen a video on FIRE that truly depicts those who are not working at all, and are blowing their dough, because of what they did while they were working .

 

[tmm99]

I have no idea if those people have blogs or what, but even here on this forum, I've been seeing more and more younger people with substantial assets. That could happen with good investment strategies and good-paying jobs (Potentially double the amount of money for families where both spouses work.)

My feeling is that if you live in a LCOL area with a paid-off mortgage (It's not hard to pay off a mortgage on a $200K house, for example...), you can live on very little, as we've witnessed with older generations. Unless you have an expensive hobby or want to travel to expensive areas of the world, there's so much you could do with very little money, but from the clip, I got the feeling that they could build some nest egg (not sure if it's "sizable" by the definition of this forum...) from their investments.

I also think that younger folks still want to make contributions to society in some ways (more so than us old folks who feel we've already contributed enough of our time), so I can see them doing different things to keep their minds busy and if that brings some monetary benefits, I'd say, so be it. I don't mind them calling themselves FIRED. (I think there was one guy on this forum a while back who was in his early 30's and had more than enough money to retire but wanted to start something to contribute to the society...)

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I wouldn't call MMM (Pete) FIRE'd for the simple fact that he has about 15 projects going at any given time, so I agree...that term is really not applicable to a LOT of people. This isn't to say he could be full-on FIRE (if he wanted to) but I wouldn't say he is retired in the traditional sense of the word.

I also don't really agree with folks being categorized in any given way considering the many routes one may take to be FI and/or RE.

I am slightly curious how many of the folks on the videos have blogs/YT channels and such?

We've been over this before, but the MMM guy left a lot out of his initial budgets, especially what are the big ticket items for most of us, like taxes, home improvement, travel, gas expenses that didn't match up with his driving trips, etc. If you add all that back in, his budget wasn't really very low at all. I don't know how FIREd he would really be without the blog income. He had a Reddit post in the early days where he openly admitted he couldn't explain his net worth or investment values when he retired.

 

[oiseux]

I wouldn't call MMM (Pete) FIRE'd for the simple fact that he has about 15 projects going at any given time, so I agree...that term is really not applicable to a LOT of people. This isn't to say he could be full-on FIRE (if he wanted to) but I wouldn't say he is retired in the traditional sense of the word.

For those that didn't view the video, Mr. MM is featured. I agree with the assessment above though, he's hustling as much as any social media influencer/YouTuber/blogger/etc. That's not retirement, even if you enjoy the w@rk (like his carpentry or blogging), especially at the revenue levels he's achieved.

The focus of the feature was on millennials, so other paths were not featured, just the more frugal end, including "barista FIRE".

One common thread I noticed -- no one mentioned health care(or the lack thereof). At this end, many are depending on staying healthy/alternative plans or ACA/foreign subsidies. The latter just doesn't sell very well in a media interview.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I have no idea if those people have blogs or what, but even here on this forum, I've been seeing more and more younger people with substantial assets. That could happen with good investment strategies and good-paying jobs (Potentially double the amount of money for families where both spouses work.)

Well, if ANYONE just stuck their money in a index fund over the last 10 years and left it alone, then the ROI would be pretty damn good. Time will tell if this will stand the test of time if/when there is a large correction.

 

[tmm99]

Well, if ANYONE just stuck their money in a index fund over the last 10 years and left it alone, then the ROI would be pretty damn good. Time will tell if this will stand the test of time if/when there is a large correction.

Yeah, that's the million-dollar question for all of us, I guess... My fingers are crossed!

 

[youbet]

they're looking at financial independence as a tool to support doing work (for pay or otherwise) they truly love rather than being wage slaves.

The real winners, IMHO, are those who never "FIRE" because their lifelong gigs are work they truly love. They succeed in never being "wage slaves." They become very financially independent but never want to be considered "retired." They love what they're doing and always have.

 

[ImThinkin2019]

I really liked the video because it promotes the LBYM lifestyle. Thank you for posting it.

IMHO the more positive spin this lifestyle gets, the more people will think about LBYM. Those of us who have done this have freedom to use our time and resources in many ways. And less worries.

Thinking back to when we were young, at that time (before the internet), LBYM people did not get as much positive press as now. Then The Millionaire Next Door was published. That got a little press.

I remember when 401K plans were invented and our company upped the amount we could put in from 16% to 25%. That was really exciting to us. Other people not so much.

Anything that influences young people to save and invest more is a good thing. IMHO, anyway. Especially showing people that saving more does not mean deprivation!!

 

[donheff]

Pretty positive view of the FIRE movement. A lot of emphasis on adopting a FIRE work lifestyle (frugality and savings) regardless whether you will fully retire early. They pointed out that you can't rely on your employer for financial security over the long term. Prepare for FIRE and you will be prepared for your job to suddenly disappear.

 

[finnski1]

Well, if ANYONE just stuck their money in a index fund over the last 10 years and left it alone, then the ROI would be pretty damn good. Time will tell if this will stand the test of time if/when there is a large correction.

No kidding. By my calculations from the very bottom in Mar 2009, the S&P has returned 15.34% per year ever since then. This means for every $100,000 you had in a very low cost index fund at that time it is now worth about $650,000. That's a lot of return in 12 and a half years.

 

[kevink]

Pretty positive view of the FIRE movement. A lot of emphasis on adopting a FIRE work lifestyle (frugality and savings) regardless whether you will fully retire early. They pointed out that you can't rely on your employer for financial security over the long term. Prepare for FIRE and you will be prepared for your job to suddenly disappear.

Yeah for me that's the best part about the video, and of course it echoes the same advice from the likes of Jonathan Clements, William Bernstein, JL Collins, etc. IMHO the best part is the focus on financial independence or at least having enough of a nest egg to have options in one's choice of employment as well as the ability to ride out a major economic downturn or layoff without panicking.

 

[Markola]

There’s so much inspiring, common sense in the video. Thanks for sharing. I sent it to two college seniors in my life.

What amazes me is some of the “Oh, they aren’t really retired because they still make money” judgy comments above, which are beyond ironic to read ON AN EARLY RETIREMENT FORUM!!

The point of FIRE is to put oneself in position to do what one wants with one’s time. If creative pursuits result in some bank, who freaking cares!!!

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

There’s so much inspiring, common sense in the video. Thanks for sharing. I sent it to two college seniors in my life.

What amazes me is some of the “Oh, they aren’t really retired because they still make money” judgy comments above, which are beyond ironic to read ON AN EARLY RETIREMENT FORUM!!

The point of FIRE is to put oneself in position to do what one wants with one’s time. If creative pursuits result in some bank, who freaking cares!!!

Not sure if this was directed at me because I can be critical at time (or "judgy" if you prefer) but in my defense, I also mentioned that the definition of retirement has changed in recent years...what retirement is for person A is not the same retirement that person B is.

Nonetheless, there is still a dictionary definition of the word and very often, some folks (usually the ones with blogs who are WORKING to make money) try and sell the idea that they are indeed retired (as literally defined) and that is the only issue I have with it.

 

[Major Tom]

Anything that influences young people to save and invest more is a good thing. IMHO, anyway. Especially showing people that saving more does not mean deprivation!!

+1

Not everyone actually wants to retire early, even if given the choice. I imagine there are also a sizable number of people who, while they would quite like to have retired early, weren't motivated enough to save, and are content enough with working up to a more traditional retirement age, or even beyond.

However, everyone can benefit from saving. Whether it's in order to supplement other sources of retirement income, or simply to cover an emergency expense, I think that few have ever regretted putting money aside for a rainy day.

 

[youbet]

What amazes me is some of the “Oh, they aren’t really retired because they still make money” judgy comments above, which are beyond ironic to read ON AN EARLY RETIREMENT FORUM!!

The point of FIRE is to put oneself in position to do what one wants with one’s time. If creative pursuits result in some bank, who freaking cares!!!

Why are people who choose a lifestyle where they're still receiving some earned income so sensitive about not being considered fully "retired?"

Participating in the lifestyle of your choice due to the freedom given by financial independence is a wonderful thing. It's just not the classic definition of being "FIRED."

Why do you fret about it?

 

[Aerides]

Why are people who choose a lifestyle where they're still receiving some earned income so sensitive about not being considered fully "retired?"

Because I love to argue silly counter-points, one could just as easily ask:

Why are people who are early retired, receiving no earned income, so sensitive as to always label others who are, as not really retired?