What are people cutting back on?

[SecondCor521]

Dusted off the library card (although it seems most of the books I want to read are not available)

Perhaps your library has ILL or purchase request programs which would help tremendously with the availability.

 

[Aerides]

I won't be reducing my car AC usage at all.

All my life, I've happily lived by the mantra "I will throw money at a problem, but I'm not going to sweat."

And I ER'd expecting rough patches, and with enough room at the edges so I don't need to adjust or pull back on quality of life stuff, because that's what all the planning taught me to do.

So, nah, no real changes, with the exception of not booking a hotel that should be $300 but is now $800, but that's the kind of stuff that should come back down to earth pretty soon.

 

[Chuckanut]

Actually, idling takes relatively little fuel. Even though gas has doubled in price, to me the main thing is paying $3 or more for a cup of coffee. A couple ounces of fuel, I can still afford. 16 ounces of coffee - not so much.

If the car is a hybrid it will turn itself off for most of the time in line.

 

[athena53]

So, nah, no real changes, with the exception of not booking a hotel that should be $300 but is now $800, but that's the kind of stuff that should come back down to earth pretty soon.

I'm about to have that conversation with my granddaughters. When I visit they love spending a night at the local Hilton with me. For quite awhile it was about $200/night and last time I reserved it it was closer to $350. We'd tried the Hampton Inn but the last few times the pool was always closed- a big disappointment to them. We had to postpone my visit and the room is now $250 for the new date, but I want to ask them about other local places in the Hilton chain (I have Diamond status to stick with them) for future bookings. Pool and 2 Queen beds are essential- but does it have to be downtown, for example?

The earlier they learn to make these types of decisions about spending, the better.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

I'm curious if turning off AC improves gas mileage. I wouldn't be surprised if the reduction in aerodynamics of the dirty air swirling through the windows offsets the reduction in power needed to drive the AC.

I actually thought that was debunked years ago. Like back in the 80’s? And that it was determined you were not saving any gas by not using the AC and rolling down the windows.
I won’t be doing that regardless.
I sold my second car in March because of how much carmax paid me for it and it was mostly just sitting in the driveway. That also saved me about $100/month in insurance.

I usually pay for my grandkids tennis lessons but they take a hiatus during little league season. Right at the end of little league one of my grandsons broke his arm at school so no tennis lessons for now. They are twins so if one can’t play neither does the other.
Of course once his arm heals the tennis lessons will resume.

I’m not too worried about cutting back at this point. I think I have a lot of slack in my budget to reduce spending if necessary. I had to do that during the recession in 2008-10 due to reduced pay. It wasn’t all that painful. Of course I was commuting at that time and gas actually went down back then.
Since I’m not commuting anymore I can control gas usage if necessary.

Maybe I should be more worried!

 

[Surewhitey]

You must have a cheap lawn guy. I did the same comparison and found it to be around 2 years instead of 7. That is for a self-propelled walk behind mower though and I assume you are talking a high quality rider.

Thinking the same... My breakeven was 1 year in TX as we have a long season. I've been banking for 6+ years now with maybe $25 in repairs/oil changes. I consider it part of my workout and forces an additional shower every week.

 

[Koolau]

It's quite off-topic, but if y'all indulge me, I will explain why I still find the relatively poor fuel economy of a motorcycle unexpected.

First, it is true that weight or rather mass matters most during acceleration or going up a slope and does not matter when you maintain a constant speed. However, the rolling resistance of the tires increases with the weight bearing down on them.

The four big fat tires of a car with 3,000-4,000 lbs weighing down on them must have quite a bit more rolling resistance compared to the two motorcycle tires.

Secondly, a car body is more streamlined than a motorcycle along with its ride, but a car has a much larger frontal area. Consider the equation for the drag force.

Fd = 1/2 * rho * V^2 * Cd * A

rho: mass density of air
V: speed of vehicle relative to air
Cd: drag coefficient
A: frontal area

Cd for a modern car is about 0.25. For a motorcycle+rider, I saw a number at 1.8, which is 7 times higher than that of a car. But what's the ratio of the two frontal areas? Perhaps the motorcycle frontal area is higher than 1/7 that of a car, hence a motorcycle perhaps ends up having more drag.

Finally, let's look at the engine. I have not looked at the fuel consumption of a motorcycle vs. its output power, but let's compare a 400cc motorcycle to that of a car with a 2500cc (2.5L) engine. You can kick start a 400cc engine, but can you turn over a 2.5L engine that easily? The car engine has so much internal friction compared to the smaller motorcycle engine. I would imagine a car engine burns a lot more fuel just to turn itself at a couple of 1000 rpm, let alone moving the car.

Still, somehow the car does not do that badly, and that's what I found unexpected.

Keep in mind that, to a first approximation, for a steady state, it's mostly in the air resistance with engine efficiency probably second - it's not the rolling resistance or the weight. The best treatise on this subject can be found here: https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/07/100-mpg-on-gasoline/

With a Cd of 1.8, a motorcycle is very much handicapped. The efficiency of the engine is relatively unimportant because bikes get decent mileage compared to cars AND there are no CAFE standards - so who cares. Bikes are for fun more than transportation. YMMV

 

[Koolau]

If the car is a hybrid it will turn itself off for most of the time in line.

Good point. Yet another reason hybrids are the sweet spot between ICE and EV. You can turn of your ICE in line, but the starter/engine are not really designed to do that often whereas hybrids are actually optimized for such on/off operation. YMMV

 

[ERObjd]

I'm curious if turning off AC improves gas mileage. I wouldn't be surprised if the reduction in aerodynamics of the dirty air swirling through the windows offsets the reduction in power needed to drive the AC.

There have been several studies on this https://www.cenex.com/about/cenex-i...t=“The rule of thumb is,than a switched-on AC.

 

[Still Learning]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Still Learning

Still keeping the lawn guy. To purchase a mower, trimmer and blower would pay for 7 years of mowing.









You must have a cheap lawn guy. I did the same comparison and found it to be around 2 years instead of 7. That is for a self-propelled walk behind mower though and I assume you are talking a high quality rider.



Small riding mower, electric trimmer and backpack blower are not so cheap anymore at about $3,500. My lawn guy is still cheap at $515 for the summer.

 

[Andre1969]

I actually thought that was debunked years ago. Like back in the 80’s? And that it was determined you were not saving any gas by not using the AC and rolling down the windows.

I have a feeling those studies were done at highway speeds, by running a car with the a/c on, and then running it with the a/c off, and all of the windows down as far as they would go.

In local stop and go driving, running the a/c is definitely going to use more fuel than rolling down the windows. And especially if you're accelerating. Once you're out on the highway, loafing along at a constant speed, the a/c probably isn't affecting you much, but at the same time, whenever I've been rolling along at 70 mph or whatever, I'm not rolling the windows down as far as they'll go. They're usually only cracked an inch or so, at the most.

Back in 1978, GM tried an experiment with their downsized intermediates (Malibu, LeMans, etc). By that point, we were pretty much accustomed to the rear windows of coupes being stationary. Well, for '78, GM made the back windows in the 4-door models (sedan and wagon) stationary as well, and you only had a flip-out vent window. In the sedans, it was in the C-pillar, but in wagons it was in the back part of the door. In their wind tunnel testing, they determined that you got better airflow when you rolled down the front windows and opened the vents in the back, than you would have if they made the back window roll down. The air flowed through more effectively, whereas with a roll-down window in back there was a more chaotic turbulence that messed with the aerodynamics.

This was fine and dandy, at highway speeds, but again, in local stop and go driving, the back seat passengers would bake, and it made air conditioning almost mandatory. And that was back in the day when even in such lofty cars as an Electra, Ninety-Eight, and New Yorker, a/c was still an option. You had to go with a Cadillac or Lincoln if you wanted it standard.

People griped about those stationary door windows, and even today, in classic car forums, if someone mentions one of these cars, people come out of the woodwork to complain about those stationary windows. But, the cars continued to sell well, in their day, and GM saw no need to modify them, right up until the final Cutlass Supreme sedan rolled off the assembly line in 1987.

Anyway, one test you can do, yourself, is to get out on the highway, and then put on the a/c. See if you notice a drag on the engine's performance. Then, try it with the a/c off, and the windows all rolled down as far as they'll go, and see if you notice.

The a/c is also going to hurt your fuel economy more, with smaller engines, than a bigger engine that just loafs along.

 

[Koolau]

I have a feeling those studies were done at highway speeds, by running a car with the a/c on, and then running it with the a/c off, and all of the windows down as far as they would go.

Anyway, one test you can do, yourself, is to get out on the highway, and then put on the a/c. See if you notice a drag on the engine's performance. Then, try it with the a/c off, and the windows all rolled down as far as they'll go, and see if you notice.

The a/c is also going to hurt your fuel economy more, with smaller engines, than a bigger engine that just loafs along.

Yeah, in town, there's no contest. AC takes more energy (SWAG) up to maybe 40 mph. Windows down is better in town - of course, I'll pay the gas money for the AC if it's uncomfortable. At highway speeds, AC is likely to take less fuel than the added air resistance costs. As you mention, several test have been run and generally the AC wins at highway speed.

I did half your highway study. My car has one of the OBD outputs fed through a computer that generates mpg instantaneous. Mine on the old Buick reads a very consistent 8% high. So even though the output is high, it is consistently high by 8% so, for the following test, it should be a wash.

On more than one extended trip with light/variable winds, I have set the speed at 75 with the CC. Typically, that gives an mpg readout of 37 or 38. I can do that for miles if there are no ups/downs. Turning on the AC drops those number by a consistent 4 mpg. I have no idea how to calculate the HP drain, but the % increase in fuel required would be directly proportional to the MPG. That calculates to about 10%. But that's 10% of rather good mileage considering the Buick is a land yacht and incredibly smooth and comfortable at speed.

Unfortunately, it didn't occur to me to try the windows-down experiment. Next trip - I will try it and (if I remember) I'll report back here.

 

[MC Rider]

Thinking of downsizing from the Ducati Monster 1200. Not due to the gas mileage, it gets low 40s. The power output is excessive and unnecessary, but it is a lot of fun and as close as I will hopefully come to being shot out of a cannon.


Of course this power is not cheap to buy, maintain, insure, etc. Maybe a Suzuki SV650 in my future.

 

[gauss]

We haven't cut back on anything, but I don't really have spending budget.

-gauss

 

[Koolau]

We haven't cut back on anything, but I don't really have spending budget.

-gauss

It's kinda nice not having a budget. I hate having too many constraints - especially ones I put on myself. Having said that, I can't seem to help comparison shopping, substituting, walking away from items too costly for perceived value, etc. I don't need a budget for any of those things and I guess that attitude is one of the things that got me to FIRE. YMMV

 

[Car-Guy]

Thinking of downsizing from the Ducati Monster 1200. Not due to the gas mileage, it gets low 40s. The power output is excessive and unnecessary, but it is a lot of fun and as close as I will hopefully come to being shot out of a cannon.


Of course this power is not cheap to buy, maintain, insure, etc. Maybe a Suzuki SV650 in my future.

But, but, but, that is over a 50% cut in horsepower IIRC.....

 

[Midpack]

I don't think people cut back at all, that's why inflation is extremely high.

We haven't cut back. Sure the high price of gas hurts at over $50 a fill, but for us that is normally once per month per vehicle or less, so it doesn't really affect the bottom line significantly.

When you see the Starbucks have no line, that's when you know it's really biting.

+1. It appears many here haven’t really cut back (we haven’t much either), supporting Sunset’s observation. When we reach many more consumers real limits - a function of time/credit/higher prices, inflation will slow down, not until then. Unfortunately some lower income folks are getting (financially) trampled while many others are more easily absorbing higher prices. Same as it ever was…

 

[GenXguy]

I'm cutting back where I can. My discretionary spending has been minimal this year, and we're almost have way through it. I'm avoiding buying anything that I don't really need. I've rarely eaten out or gotten take-out from restaurants outside of low cost breakfasts in our work cafeteria. I don't drive much but am even trying to cut back on that further. This inflation makes me feel poor, so I'm living more like it. But really, the biggest effect inflation has had on me is that it's caused me to delay retirement from May of this year to at least next year, possibly even longer.

 

[ERObjd]

the older cars in the 60's had little triangle windows in the front doors that would funnel outside air in without having to open the whole entire window.

 

[tmm99]

I have a feeling that most people here have a big enough buffer that they don't need to cut back, but many here are frugal too, so it's natural that we want to cut back.

Just seeing my network shrinking and prices of just about everything going up, although my numbers are still looking very good, I can't help but want to tighten my belt. I'm more conscious of what I am spending money on and I try to spend my money more wisely, which isn't a bad thing anyway.

 

[athena53]

I did shop my Auto, Homeowners and Umbrella insurance for the first time in 6 years after the Homeowners went up from $2,000 to $2,800. (We had a separate thread on this.) I am satisfied that the coverage I have is equal or better- wasn't just the lowest quote I could get on the Internet. I sat down with a local agent.

I may have to do that more often.

 

[ERObjd]

we have 3 vehicles one is a 2010 Subaru Forester that we got for our daughter to use for college it is a 2.5 4 cylinder so when AC is on in the city stop and go traffic gas mileage drops like a stone.. on the hiway at hiway speed running AC does not affect mileage very much.
The car wife and I drive is a 2009 Hyundai Sonata with the 2.4 L engine running AC in the city drops the mileage about 2 miles per gallon on the hiway at hiway speeds it does very well with AC on with no noticble drop in mileage .We also have a 2004 F 150 5.4 L V8 4x4 which gets poor mileage no matter what. AC or no AC. I dont drive it much and last time i filled it it cost $97.00 and that was about a month ago

 

[Ready-4-ER-at-14]

Maybe that's my problem, I'm normally so [-]cheap[/-] frugal that I would always hand wash in the driveway unless I got a free wash.

My only cut back is to leave the car out in the rain and count that as a wash. Yesterday when it rained I seriously thought of going out and soaping up the car with a bucket and let the free rain rinse it off.

Seriously I do that. I have a bucked and add some car wash to water and go out with a soft bristle brush (like you use to clean a work bench at harbor freight for ~ $3) and soap it up.. I go out just as it starts.. Neighbors like me so I am just considered eccentric : ) . Car has to be pretty bad for me to do it though as usually our rains cleans cars well.

 

[friar1610]

It's kinda nice not having a budget. I hate having too many constraints - especially ones I put on myself. Having said that, I can't seem to help comparison shopping, substituting, walking away from items too costly for perceived value, etc. I don't need a budget for any of those things and I guess that attitude is one of the things that got me to FIRE. YMMV

+1

I went to a college reunion this past weekend. Went to the bookstore to buy a college logo ball cap. $33.99! I couldn’t believe it! Don’t have a budget but knew that was too much for a ball cap. And I can easily afford it - it’s the value thing.

 

[Ready-4-ER-at-14]

We have found that air fare for about a 12 hr car drive has increased a lot and are delaying a ticket to see if it might become available for about double of what we paid maybe four months ago.