Don't look at your investments too closely.

[Graybeard]

In the final 7 or 8 years I was working, I checked my 401k daily. That was not good, on big up days the thrill was exhilarating but on the big down days that was depressing. I stopped that and would never look every day again.

I do an asset allocation check mid month and month end. One side of the sheet is just tax deferred to know what fund balances are for RMDs. The other side is everything for a total AA review. It's been pretty depressing for the past 6 months but it's just money!

 

[Koolau]

In the final 7 or 8 years I was working, I checked my 401k daily. That was not good, on big up days the thrill was exhilarating but on the big down days that was depressing. I stopped that and would never look every day again.

I do an asset allocation check mid month and month end. One side of the sheet is just tax deferred to know what fund balances are for RMDs. The other side is everything for a total AA review. It's been pretty depressing for the past 6 months but it's just money!

During a rough patch at megacorp, I was looking every day. I was trying to convince myself that I would be able to retire at the very earliest allowed by megacorp (age 51 in my case.) Once the rough patch passed, I more or less forgot to look (we did get a yearly statement which always surprised me at how much my stash had grown.) YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

In the 90s, I was so busy with work at megacorp and also moonlighting at a startup that I went for at least 5 years without paying attention to my savings and 401k. Of course they grew, but if I paid some attention, would not have so much money sitting idle.

When I discovered my mistake, I swore never to neglect my financial affairs again. Even when traveling and not making trades, I still make the point of looking at the total daily figure as reported by Quicken.

With Internet connection worldwide, there's no reason not to, although when I was RV'ing in Alaska, did lose contact for several days.

 

[Koolau]

In the 90s, I was so busy with work at megacorp and also moonlighting at a startup that I went for at least 5 years without paying attention to my savings and 401k. Of course they grew, but if I paid some attention, would not have so much money sitting idle.

When I discovered my mistake, I swore never to neglect my financial affairs again. Even when traveling and not making trades, I still make the point of looking at the total daily figure as reported by Quicken.

With Internet connection worldwide, there's no reason not to, although when I was RV'ing in Alaska, did lose contact for several days.

Sorry, but checking every day begins to sound like a j*b to me. As long as I know I have enough, I don't need to be checking that often. Now, my money w*rks for me, not the other way around. YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

Oh, but I think this job pays me well. And it is enjoyable too, just like my past engineering job.

Sold only 3 OTM covered calls today, but bought back 46 contracts for pennies. They were going to be worthless on Friday anyway, but might as well clear them off my book to get ready to sell the next batch.

 

[nobody]

I'm not an active trader. Have an app on my phone that gives me SP500, DJIA and VTI. I get a notification end of market day and can see what happened. Only look directly at my brokrage account maybe once every couple of months but I do check checking account daily.

 

[CyclingInvestor]

In my final job 1998-2006 I was (among other projects) programming stock price data feeds. One of my "test" programs was a tracker for my portfolio, with up to the second prices. I thought it was so cool to watch my own trades cross the ticker (these were stocks that only traded like once per minute) less than a second after submitting them.

 

[ERObjd]

I log in to my Vanguard and Fidelity about every month and of course when I buy more shares. My funds pretty much track with the Total Market and SP500, and since I do not have a tv and only listen to radio. .When the top of the hour news says markets stay the same or are up or down whatever %, then my funds are up or down accordingly. I have no need to log on to my accounts every day.

 

[pacergal]

I check how the market is doing on a daily basis. I check and print out our investment monthly balances on the first of every month, place them in my notebook. Finally got our IRA rollovers completed, adjusted to closer to 70/30 comfort level, now nothing to do but leave them be.

 

[F.I.R.E User]

I check it everyday on Mint.

 

[Exchme]

I look at the market every day and tabulate everything in my spreadsheet each week. I check to see if I need to rebalance anything and nowadays look for tax loss harvesting opportunities.

The last few years, I also have taken to charting my results vs. the boring old S&P 500 (I use the Yahoo S&P 500 Total Return index as an easy way to include dividends). It's been very humbling to compare my other funds to the S&P 500.

 

[perez99]

Retired 6 months ago. I check everyday. Its been somewhat depressing, but I'm ok with it at the end. Still refining income plan as I have a few years before pension and quite a few before social security. Early morning my brain is still in good shape, so its my preferred time.

 

[Dash man]

Oh, but I think this job pays me well. And it is enjoyable too, just like my past engineering job.

Sold only 3 OTM covered calls today, but bought back 46 contracts for pennies. They were going to be worthless on Friday anyway, but might as well clear them off my book to get ready to sell the next batch.

I’ve been selling covered calls too. I’m in the process of simplifying my Roth IRA by moving the stocks into four ETFs (SCHA, SCHB, SCHD and SCHY). The cash I make from selling the CCs I put into an ETF. If a stock gets assigned, I put that cash into an ETF. Eventually those stocks will be gone and my Roth will be on autopilot in case something happens to me. Can’t do this in my taxable account because of tax consequences.

 

[Koolau]

Retired 6 months ago. I check everyday. Its been somewhat depressing, but I'm ok with it at the end. Still refining income plan as I have a few years before pension and quite a few before social security. Early morning my brain is still in good shape, so its my preferred time.

The good news: The theory is that if you were "okay" according to FIRECalc you should be okay for 30 years. I recall retiring in late 2005 and then hitting 2008 just after moving 5000 miles away from "home." Lots of stuff to think about. So far, all has worked out wonderfully after almost 17 years. YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^ When I stopped work in 2012, I was also a few years from SS, Medicare, and even from the 59-1/2 when I could get access to 401k/IRA.

Darn, time goes by faster than you thought. I am now an old man with all the privileges bestowed to geezers. I still don't know if I should feel happy or not.

 

[sengsational]

I look once a month (at minimum), as required to maintain my rebalancing rule, which requires checking monthly to see if anything crossed a trigger point. When I see chatter on this board about market swings, I might do an extra look. If none of the five web interfaces have changed anything, it only takes a minute to log on, grab, log off using a macro I wrote. But more often than not, something has changed, and I need to update the macro. I often ask myself why I bother with the macro, but haven't abandoned it.

As to checking frequently for nefarious activity, I trust that I'd see unexpected email alerts, so that's no motivation to check more frequently.

 

[JoeWras]

After reading a recent thread on Bogleheads about fraudulent ACATS transfers, I'll be checking at least weekly, maybe daily.

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=381060

 

[NW-Bound]

After reading a recent thread on Bogleheads about fraudulent ACATS transfers, I'll be checking at least weekly, maybe daily.

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=381060

I just learned about ACATS. It is the process which happens when you open an account at a new brokerage, and transfer all your assets from your existing brokerage.

It means someone steals your identity to open that new account at another brokerage, then transfer all of your assets out. I think the identity thief will then sell and transfer all the cash out to another account where he can then withdraw and disappear.

He cannot leave the money there in the ACATs receiving account, because that account is associated with your identity.

What Is the Automated Customer Account Transfer Service (ACATS)?

The Automated Customer Account Transfer Service (ACATS) is a system that facilitates the transfer of securities from one trading account to another at a different brokerage firm or bank. The National Securities Clearing Corporation (NSCC) developed the ACATS system, replacing the previous manual asset transfer system with this fully automated and standardized one.

The Automated Customer Account Transfer Service can be used to transfer stocks, bonds, cash, unit trusts, mutual funds, options, and other investment products. The system may be required when an investor wants to move their account from Broker Company A to Broker Company B.
Only NSCC-eligible members and Depository Trust Company member banks can use the ACATS system.

How the Automated Customer Account Transfer Service (ACATS) Works

The ACATS system is initiated when the new receiving firm has the client sign the appropriate transfer documents. Once the document is received in good order, the receiving firm submits a request using the client's account number and sends it to the delivering firm. If the information matches between both the delivering firm and the receiving firm, the ACATS process can begin. The process takes usually takes three to six business days to complete.

The ACATS simplifies the process of moving from one brokerage firm to another. The delivering firm transfers the exact holdings to the receiving firm. For example, if the client had 100 shares of Stock XYZ at the delivering firm, then the receiving firm receives the same amount, with the same purchase price. This makes it more convenient for clients as they do not need to liquidate their positions and then repurchase them with the new firm. Another benefit is that clients do not need to let their previous brokerage firm or advisor know beforehand. If they are unhappy with their current broker, they can simply go to a new one and start the transfer process.

 

[JoeWras]

To be clear, I'm "looking at" my accounts just to make sure everything is there, and not obsessively checking performance. Mr. Bogle's advice to not "peek at your statements" is excellent metaphorically, but in today's world of on-line thievery, it is dangerous when taken literally. Look at your statements, just ignore the performance information.

So here's the problem, as grabbed from NW-Bound's excellent quote about ACATS above:

Another benefit is that clients do not need to let their previous brokerage firm or advisor know beforehand. If they are unhappy with their current broker, they can simply go to a new one and start the transfer process.

So ACATS "pulls" from the existing broker. This does not require 2FA, MFA, security questions, etc. It just happens. Most brokers, including Fidelity and Vanguard won't even send you a text or email even if you have notifications turned on. ACATS just happens silently. One day your securities are just gone.

I remembered when I moved from E*Trade to Vanguard just how simple it was. It seemed too simple.

The thief needs to have successfully obtained your identity info. They need your exact name, DOB, SSN. Most of this is freely available on the dark web. They use this to open an account at the "pulling" broker in your name. The next thing they need is your brokerage account number, and maybe some rough information about the account.

The problem with Fidelity is that the brokerage account number is encoded on checks if you have their brokerage checking account. If you have such a Fidelity account and use it, make sure to "lock" your account in their security section.

Other things to consider:
- Snail mail feels good, but it is insecure. Go electronic. Print your own. Thieves can and do steal mail for financial information and sell it on the dark web.
- If you have a history of being hacked at your brokerage (somehow someone got your credentials), and even though you've changed passwords and "nothing" happened, well, something happened and they may have saved a view of your brokerage life. Get the broker to get you a new account number (an internal transfer)
- If you use Fidelity, consider the "locking" feature in their security. I don't think Vanguard has this.

ACATS fraud is not running rampant. Don't panic. Just be on the lookout. I suspect if this kind of fraud gets more common, we'll see some changes to ACATS, or at least options to "lock" at more places.

 

[Ronstar]

I look once a month. I used to do a detailed look where my spreadsheet computed monthly and YTD for each account and investment. I got rid of the pct's. I'm now only interested in end of month total portfolio balance and monthly $ spent, and $ lost or gained per month and YTD.

 

[Koolau]

I just learned about ACATS. It is the process which happens when you open an account at a new brokerage, and transfer all your assets from your existing brokerage.

It means someone steals your identity to open that new account at another brokerage, then transfer all of your assets out. I think the identity thief will then sell and transfer all the cash out to another account where he can then withdraw and disappear.

He cannot leave the money there in the ACATs receiving account, because that account is associated with your identity.

IIRC when I do almost anything at any of my account holders, I get an email notification virtually as soon as I complete the transaction. Is that not enough to catch a fraudulent transfer?

 

[Koolau]

To be clear, I'm "looking at" my accounts just to make sure everything is there, and not obsessively checking performance. Mr. Bogle's advice to not "peek at your statements" is excellent metaphorically, but in today's world of on-line thievery, it is dangerous when taken literally. Look at your statements, just ignore the performance information.

So here's the problem, as grabbed from NW-Bound's excellent quote about ACATS above:
So ACATS "pulls" from the existing broker. This does not require 2FA, MFA, security questions, etc. It just happens. Most brokers, including Fidelity and Vanguard won't even send you a text or email even if you have notifications turned on. ACATS just happens silently. One day your securities are just gone.

I remembered when I moved from E*Trade to Vanguard just how simple it was. It seemed too simple.

The thief needs to have successfully obtained your identity info. They need your exact name, DOB, SSN. Most of this is freely available on the dark web. They use this to open an account at the "pulling" broker in your name. The next thing they need is your brokerage account number, and maybe some rough information about the account.

The problem with Fidelity is that the brokerage account number is encoded on checks if you have their brokerage checking account. If you have such a Fidelity account and use it, make sure to "lock" your account in their security section.

Other things to consider:
- Snail mail feels good, but it is insecure. Go electronic. Print your own. Thieves can and do steal mail for financial information and sell it on the dark web.
- If you have a history of being hacked at your brokerage (somehow someone got your credentials), and even though you've changed passwords and "nothing" happened, well, something happened and they may have saved a view of your brokerage life. Get the broker to get you a new account number (an internal transfer)
- If you use Fidelity, consider the "locking" feature in their security. I don't think Vanguard has this.

ACATS fraud is not running rampant. Don't panic. Just be on the lookout. I suspect if this kind of fraud gets more common, we'll see some changes to ACATS, or at least options to "lock" at more places.

What is the "responsibility" of the account holder if your funds are stolen? Are you just "out?" or do they make it right or at least pursue the issue.

This seems like such a poor system that it needs more safeguards. What am I missing?

 

[Mark1]

To be clear, I'm "looking at" my accounts just to make sure everything is there, and not obsessively checking performance. Mr. Bogle's advice to not "peek at your statements" is excellent metaphorically, but in today's world of on-line thievery, it is dangerous when taken literally. Look at your statements, just ignore the performance information.

So here's the problem, as grabbed from NW-Bound's excellent quote about ACATS above:
So ACATS "pulls" from the existing broker. This does not require 2FA, MFA, security questions, etc. It just happens. Most brokers, including Fidelity and Vanguard won't even send you a text or email even if you have notifications turned on. ACATS just happens silently. One day your securities are just gone.

I remembered when I moved from E*Trade to Vanguard just how simple it was. It seemed too simple.

The thief needs to have successfully obtained your identity info. They need your exact name, DOB, SSN. Most of this is freely available on the dark web. They use this to open an account at the "pulling" broker in your name. The next thing they need is your brokerage account number, and maybe some rough information about the account.

The problem with Fidelity is that the brokerage account number is encoded on checks if you have their brokerage checking account. If you have such a Fidelity account and use it, make sure to "lock" your account in their security section.

Other things to consider:
- Snail mail feels good, but it is insecure. Go electronic. Print your own. Thieves can and do steal mail for financial information and sell it on the dark web.
- If you have a history of being hacked at your brokerage (somehow someone got your credentials), and even though you've changed passwords and "nothing" happened, well, something happened and they may have saved a view of your brokerage life. Get the broker to get you a new account number (an internal transfer)
- If you use Fidelity, consider the "locking" feature in their security. I don't think Vanguard has this.

ACATS fraud is not running rampant. Don't panic. Just be on the lookout. I suspect if this kind of fraud gets more common, we'll see some changes to ACATS, or at least options to "lock" at more places.

This is very interesting info. DW and I have most of our assets at Fido, so I investigated the "lock down" feature. It looks simple in that I can "lock" and "unlock" very easy within the security center. Most of our ECH transfers (e.g. our "monthly paycheck" from Marcus that I have set up to live on) are inbound transfers and not effected. I figure that ever January I will need to "unlock" and maybe once or twice a year, but that's not too bad. Thanks for the information.

 

[JoeWras]

IIRC when I do almost anything at any of my account holders, I get an email notification virtually as soon as I complete the transaction. Is that not enough to catch a fraudulent transfer?

ACATS transfers out (pulled from somewhere else) do not kick an email on Vanguard or Fidelity, as confirmed by many people who recently did them.

What is the "responsibility" of the account holder if your funds are stolen? Are you just "out?" or do they make it right or at least pursue the issue.

This seems like such a poor system that it needs more safeguards. What am I missing?

First, don't panic. This is not common. The brokerages using ACATS require a decent amount of information to do the transfer. As long as you are keeping your information safe, this is very unlikely. You should not be "out" permanently, but like all identity issues, it's gonna hurt and could tie up funds for a while.

Your responsibility is to immediately report it to the brokerage as soon as possible. The earlier the better. First report verbally, then follow up with a written request. The "have it in writing" is outlined in the fine print we never read (I just read it for Vanguard under "Reporting discrepancies"). The broker is obligated to take it from there, per SIPC rules.

This should do it, and if it doesn't there's always legal action or direct requests to SIPC or FINRA.

If you have Fidelity, you may want to click the lock box under security.

As for ACATS, well, it came into existence because so many broker transfers were getting completely hosed. There's more good than bad here. What is a bit perplexing is that they don't require a "log on" to the distributing broker. Think about ACH: if you set up a bank account to transfer from, you either have to approve it with seeing and reporting tiny deposits, or you have to give them your log-on information. I'm going to guess that ACATS fraud has been so rare since they invented this that this step wasn't seen as necessary. Perhaps changes will be forthcoming in the future.

 

[Koolau]

ACATS transfers out (pulled from somewhere else) do not kick an email on Vanguard or Fidelity, as confirmed by many people who recently did them.


First, don't panic. This is not common. The brokerages using ACATS require a decent amount of information to do the transfer. As long as you are keeping your information safe, this is very unlikely. You should not be "out" permanently, but like all identity issues, it's gonna hurt and could tie up funds for a while.

Your responsibility is to immediately report it to the brokerage as soon as possible. The earlier the better. First report verbally, then follow up with a written request. The "have it in writing" is outlined in the fine print we never read (I just read it for Vanguard under "Reporting discrepancies"). The broker is obligated to take it from there, per SIPC rules.

This should do it, and if it doesn't there's always legal action or direct requests to SIPC or FINRA.

If you have Fidelity, you may want to click the lock box under security.

As for ACATS, well, it came into existence because so many broker transfers were getting completely hosed. There's more good than bad here. What is a bit perplexing is that they don't require a "log on" to the distributing broker. Think about ACH: if you set up a bank account to transfer from, you either have to approve it with seeing and reporting tiny deposits, or you have to give them your log-on information. I'm going to guess that ACATS fraud has been so rare since they invented this that this step wasn't seen as necessary. Perhaps changes will be forthcoming in the future.

Thanks, Joe. This makes me feel better - I think!