off shore IRA? Moving money out of US?

[Patricia Lyn]

Hello,
Anyone have experience moving money out of the US? I recently looked into transferring our IRAs and Roth-IRAs to an off shore account. It’s really scary to think about since we have always had our money at Vanguard. We are currently very worried that if our economy crashes, the government will come after people’s retirement savings…currently the largest untapped source of money in our country besides the printing press.
I know this sounds extreme but other countries are doing this at times and it could happen here.
Any thoughts?

 

[COcheesehead]

I just read that burying in the yard is a good option too.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/wildwood-hidden-money-great-depression-new-jersey-1934/

 

[Patricia Lyn]

Funny article!

Yes, the 1,000.00 was worth a lot more back then…20K! Pretty sad

 

[aja8888]

Hello,
Anyone have experience moving money out of the US? I recently looked into transferring our IRAs and Roth-IRAs to an off shore account. It’s really scary to think about since we have always had our money at Vanguard. We are currently very worried that if our economy crashes, the government will come after people’s retirement savings…currently the largest untapped source of money in our country besides the printing press.
I know this sounds extreme but other countries are doing this at times and it could happen here.
Any thoughts?

Moving IRA's offshore means cashing them in and paying the tax? If you want to move them as IRA's, I don't believe you can do that where the Gov would not have the right to seize them.

No where is safe and the U.S. is probably the safest place to store your money. If they come after yours, they will be going after everyone's.

Besides, printing new money is faster and won't rattle the cages of the inmates.

 

[Spock]

From what I understand, you'll have to do more than just move it. You'll also have to cut all the cords, such as renouncing US citizenship. I dunno what that does to your SS benefits, but would be surprised if you could collect them.


Confiscating retirement funds has been circulating since at least the 1980's. More recently (2010's?) there was a "retirement expert" (Teri G*i, long name, cant spell it good enough for google to find it) testifying before congress that all retirement accounts should be forced to invest in gov bonds.
ETA: Found it! Teresa Ghilarducci


The other boogyman is bank "bail-ins" where your savings above a threshold get used to recapitalize a failed bank... in return you supposedly would get stock in the new bank...

There are groups like International Man (Simon Black) that love to get people riled up on the topic and then "subscribe to my newsletter for the answers on how to not only protect but profit from such an occurrence". They talk of places like Panama (uses the USD so... ?), Puerto Rico (practically the 51st state (or 52nd after DC), Argentina (hello?? how many times have they gone bankrupt), which make no sense. On the other hand, those places have had so much turmoil they're used to dealing with it. Switzerland isn't the haven it used to be.



I've looked at it for years. So far (but rapidly changing) the US is still the "cleanest dirty shirt in the hamper". Lately Eastern Europe seems more sane... like Poland maybe.

Similar to investing strategy, the advice seems to be to diversify your $ across different countries as well as different investment categories.
And then there is always "beans, bullets, bullion, and bandages"... although there is talk of the Feds confiscating food storage from preppers and "re-distributing it".

Or "eet ze bugz".

 

[Doingitwrong]

Which country do you trust more?
You'll still pay US tax on your worldwide income unless you offshore yourself and pay all the taxes due now on everything you own.
Be careful. Had a client, US citizen in UK, hit with $88,444.23 in Lifetime Allowance tax for accumulating too much in a pension account. I don't know how that works exactly, but it seems harsh.

 

[mrfeh]

Hello,
Anyone have experience moving money out of the US? I recently looked into transferring our IRAs and Roth-IRAs to an off shore account. It’s really scary to think about since we have always had our money at Vanguard. We are currently very worried that if our economy crashes, the government will come after people’s retirement savings…currently the largest untapped source of money in our country besides the printing press.
I know this sounds extreme but other countries are doing this at times and it could happen here.
Any thoughts?

I think you need to get a grip.

Sorry for being so direct, but this is paranoia to the extreme.

 

[Patricia Lyn]

AJ888 and Spock,
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I guess you are probably right that the US is the cleanest dirty shirt. It’s just so scary to keep money in an institution that could either go under, suffer a devastating cyber attack, or an EMP even! All those years of living frugally in order to save for retirement…poof! I guess a government confiscation would be better than an EMP. maybe I should just stop looking at Zero hedge!

 

[OldShooter]

... We are currently very worried that if our economy crashes, the government will come after people’s retirement savings…currently the largest untapped source of money in our country besides the printing press. ...

But they have the printing press. When have you ever seen US politicians do anything but take the path of least resistance?

 

[aja8888]

AJ888 and Spock,
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I guess you are probably right that the US is the cleanest dirty shirt. It’s just so scary to keep money in an institution that could either go under, suffer a devastating cyber attack, or an EMP even! All those years of living frugally in order to save for retirement…poof! I guess a government confiscation would be better than an EMP. maybe I should just stop looking at Zero hedge!

Yes, stay off ZH. Toxic place. Full of fear mongers and outright liars.

 

[Patricia Lyn]

Mrfeh,
Your reply cracks me up considering other governments have done exactly what I’m talking about, my level of paranoia is only mild. Extreme would be if I worried about our government deciding to freeze bank accounts of those who donated to or otherwise showed solidarity to their political enemies…such as what happened in Canada recently. No, I think paranoia is totally justified these days.

 

[OldShooter]

... All those years of living frugally in order to save for retirement…poof! ...

Also true when you die, which is probably a higher probability than some kind of US financial apocalypse.

 

[Patricia Lyn]

Old shooter, Yes absolutely. Must keep perspective! Lots of things more likely…

 

[Spock]

Yes, stay off ZH. Toxic place. Full of fear mongers and outright liars.

I find ZH quite useful (it was highlighting a strange new virus a few months before "it" became something more than just cruise ship news), but it requires a lot of filtering. There are some authors that you can just skip their "articles" because you already know what sort of doom they're going to say.

Your choice is either limit yourself mainstream pablum/propaganda sources or be willing to filter out some turds.

Although lately ZH is just a teaser site for The Epoch Times a lower signal-to-noise ratio.

 

[OldShooter]

Old shooter, Yes absolutely. Must keep perspective! Lots of things more likely…

FTFY

 

[Freedom56]

Come on. You guys are being trolled.

 

[aja8888]

Come on. You guys are being trolled.

Things are slow around here today. It's OK. Plus, we are post maniacs.

 

[RobbieB]

Buy gold, bury in backyard.

 

[Newventurer]

these guys will sell you anything you want

https://www.sovereignman.com

 

[mrfeh]

Come on. You guys are being trolled.

I don't think so, unfortunately.

There are lots of people that have conspiracy theories for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Wikipedia's summary of Zero Hedge:

Zero Hedge (or ZeroHedge) is a far-right[13] libertarian[18] financial blog and news aggregator.[14][15][19] Zero Hedge, per its motto,[a] is bearish in its investment outlook and analysis, often deriving from its adherence to the Austrian School of economics and credit cycles.[23] While often labeled as a financial permabear,[24][25] Zero Hedge has also been described as a source of "cutting-edge news, rumors and gossip in the financial industry".[26]

Over time, Zero Hedge expanded into non-financial political content,[c] including conspiracy theories and fringe rhetoric[3][28] advancing radical right,[15][29] alt-right,[30][31][32] and pro-Russia positions.[1][33][34][35] Zero Hedge's non-financial commentary has led to multiple site bans by global social media platforms, although its 2019 Facebook ban[36][37] and 2020 Twitter ban were later reversed.[15][38]

 

[marko]

I must say.......one of the more "interesting" thread subjects I've seen here.

 

[Patricia Lyn]

Glad to know there are some who are interested in this subject. I’m not a troll. Been on this forum for three years now.Hardly ever post but I had an honest question. Glad to see a variety of perspectives.

 

[Dash man]

I buried some gold, but I’m not saying where! (I just hope somebody doesn’t look in the rose garden!)

 

[tulak]

Buy gold, bury in backyard.

And send me your address.

 

[luckydude]

Glad to know there are some who are interested in this subject. I’m not a troll. Been on this forum for three years now.Hardly ever post but I had an honest question. Glad to see a variety of perspectives.

Ok, I'll bite.

There's nothing preventing you from liquidating your IRA, pay the appropriate taxes, and move your money offshore to another country. Lots of foreign banks would rather not deal with the hassle of opening bank accounts for US citizens due to FATCA and all the reporting requirements for "US person", but if you can find a foreign bank willing to do it, just remember to declare your foreign bank account to the IRS and pay taxes on any income earned on the said account.

Or you can move your money offshore and buy foreign real estate. There are no IRS reporting requirements for foreign real estate holdings.

There's nothing wrong with looking to diversify your assets internationally, as long as you understand all the risks, tax implications and reporting requirements. Personally, I think the US is as good as it gets, but YMMV.