setting boundaries after retirement!

[Calico]

Saying "No", full stop, is a great idea in principle, but obviously it has some drawbacks. I wish we lived in a world where "No" ended the conversation, but in the actual world it's almost always followed by something like "Oh... are you busy that day/time?", followed by more questions if you simply say "Yes, I am." If you hold steadfast with "I just can't do it" or "I don't want to do it", then you're immediately judged as selfish and rude. Of course, if this doesn't bother you at all, then a simple, full-stop "No" is great. Personally, I have trouble with being this blunt and reticent with my close friends and family.

It doesn't bother me even one tiny bit. I'm not responsible for what they choose to think.

 

[rk911]

So, now you are the guy/gal who is retired.

I find all of a sudden we are getting dogs dumped on us to watch while others take trips. Lots of calls to do this or do that to fix other peoples problems.

I think it is revealing. We find we need to set hard boundaries.

Has anyone else seen this??

Nope. Maybe because together we have very little family left. We have no kids; my wife's bros. were both single; my nephew and his wife have no kids (yet) and my sister and her husband had just the one. And up until Covid we spent 6-mos away from home in our motorhome.

For those so inclined I'm told this book is an excellent guide on how to set and maintain personal boundaries.

https://www.drcloud.com/books/boundaries

 

[troutnut1]

I used to suffer from people pleasing. Not any more. Several sayings that helped me…

“If you don’t like being walked on, stop acting like a doormat.”

“No.”

“Sorry, I’ve got too much on my plate right now.”

“I’ll have to take a rain check on that.”

“Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don’t say it mean.”

 

[brett]

I used to suffer from people pleasing. Not any more. Several sayings that helped me…

“If you don’t like being walked on, stop acting like a doormat.”

“No.”

“Sorry, I’ve got too much on my plate right now.”

“I’ll have to take a rain check on that.”

“Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don’t say it mean.”

Agree completely. Never a problem for us. It just takes one or two polite no's to set the stage.

You simply need to decide if you are going to let people take advantage of you.

It is your choice.

 

[punkinhead]

I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood where friends and neighbors helped each other. Electricians, plumbers, mechanics, carpenters, etc. If someone was building an addition or needed a car fixed someone would pitch in. Everyone had skills to offer. For the past 30 years I've lived in an upper middle class white collar neighborhood where everyone is an office worker with no skills unless you need a TPS report filled out. They've got nothing to trade so I learned decades ago to politely decline. I especially never loan tools since they're not knowledgeable enough to use them safely and take care of them. I'm retired now but still have a well stocked machine shop, woodworking shop, and garage with a lift but I still say no because anything I do would be a one way street. They're all nice people that I'm happy to have a beer and chat with, but I'm not getting roped into spending my time doing things they can afford to hire out. I do occasional machining for friends who need parts for antique aircraft but those people all have skills that I don't so they eventually reciprocate.

 

[EarlyandLate]

I am often happy to help with things on an ad hoc basis from time to time. However, I find that organizations want to rope me into ongoing regular commitments. That's where I say a hard NO! I want to keep my time flexible and be able to take advantage of spontaneous activities. I'm not at all interested in anything like "every Tuesday morning at 9:00", etc. People who are enslaved to a job don't seem to understand why that's a problem.

 

[HtownRose]

"No" is a complete sentence, but if it feels too blunt, you can add filler such as "Oh thank you so much for thinking of me but I won't be able to, so sorry!"

And agree that you want to avoid giving reasons that they could then counter. If they want to know why you give them a repeat of what you already said just in different words: "Why? Oh, because I wouldn't be able to, so sorry!"

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Saying "No", full stop, is a great idea in principle, but obviously it has some drawbacks. I wish we lived in a world where "No" ended the conversation, but in the actual world it's almost always followed by something like "Oh... are you busy that day/time?", followed by more questions if you simply say "Yes, I am." If you hold steadfast with "I just can't do it" or "I don't want to do it", then you're immediately judged as selfish and rude. Of course, if this doesn't bother you at all, then a simple, full-stop "No" is great. Personally, I have trouble with being this blunt and reticent with my close friends and family.

I learned this lesson from my birth family, who will trample all over you if you let them. If people who are trying to manipulate me into doing something for them that I don't want to do think that I'm rude, then great! Maybe they'll stop making unreasonable demands or stop expecting me to do something really uncomfortable or difficult or stressful for myself, or worse, my household. The real problem with that is you (Soujourner) probably care more about their approval than they do about yours, so they use that to get whatever they want with no reciprocity. No judgement, that's how I was raised, too, but I noticed the discrepancy and eventually figured it out, and this is how I prefer to deal with it. Nothing wrong with placating them IF you really prefer that to the alternative.

 

[youbet]

I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood where friends and neighbors helped each other. Electricians, plumbers, mechanics, carpenters, etc. If someone was building an addition or needed a car fixed someone would pitch in. Everyone had skills to offer. For the past 30 years I've lived in an upper middle class white collar neighborhood where everyone is an office worker with no skills unless you need a TPS report filled out. They've got nothing to trade so I learned decades ago to politely decline. I especially never loan tools since they're not knowledgeable enough to use them safely and take care of them. I'm retired now but still have a well stocked machine shop, woodworking shop, and garage with a lift but I still say no because anything I do would be a one way street. They're all nice people that I'm happy to have a beer and chat with, but I'm not getting roped into spending my time doing things they can afford to hire out. I do occasional machining for friends who need parts for antique aircraft but those people all have skills that I don't so they eventually reciprocate.

I hear you on all that punkinhead! As a blue collar guy with significant "hands on" skills, I avoid helping my white collar friends with their "hands off" issues with a vengeance. I've learned to deal with my own financial issues, do my own taxes, etc. They can learn to sharpen the blade on their own lawn mower!

 

[flyingaway]

I am not retired but noticed some of this after I started working from home since I saved time commuting.

My mom kicked her boyfriend out awhile back and he used to help her financially, cut her grass, and do her yardwork. She asked me to start cutting her grass as she's not really able to use a mower. Then it was yard work. She had started asking things like what I'm doing when she calls and has been trying to gauage what my schedule is during the week. Lately I've gotten requests for things ilke hauling some stuff over to the Goodwill, pickup something she wants to buy on Craigslist, etc. She has another son with a truck (but apparently his time is more valuable because he's married) and a brother with a truck but will hit me up first. At what point is it necessary to draw the line?

Helping parents is a different thing.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I am really shocked at the number of people saying no. I always help friends and family unless they are total losers and never reciprocate. Some people can’t because of illness or injury and then I consider it a good deed.

 

[luckydude]

I am really shocked at the number of people saying no. I always help friends and family unless they are total losers and never reciprocate. Some people can’t because of illness or injury and then I consider it a good deed.

I am one of the "no" people. I don't mind (and am happy to) doing one-off stuff to help people. But I find that some people who receive help can be "boundary pushers" in that they will ask for help again and again and develop a sense of entitlement to my assistance, and then guilt-trip me when I say finally say no. And then I become the bad guy for not wanting the help.

To avoid such scenario, now I just say no unless it's something really simple (like picking up neighbor's kids from school at the same time when I'm picking up my own) and I know the person doing the asking is not likely to be a boundary pusher.

 

[folivier]

For me the key word to understand is "help". If they're doing something and need some help or guidance then I have no problem helping. But if their definition of help is for me to do something they don't want to do or pay someone to do then it's a NO.

 

[Surewhitey]

For me the key word to understand is "help". If they're doing something and need some help or guidance then I have no problem helping. But if their definition of help is for me to do something they don't want to do or pay someone to do then it's a NO.

Just did exactly that. DD'S MIL had a backsplash installation that she wants done. "if your family will help, I'm in to provide tools and guidance." We knocked it out and enjoyed the time in the process. Took 6 hours and looked great. It really depends on the willingness to help, imo.

If I have time & want to help, I do typically. You know who takes advantage though & I have no problem with" No, sorry"...

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I am really shocked at the number of people saying no. I always help friends and family unless they are total losers and never reciprocate. Some people can’t because of illness or injury and then I consider it a good deed.

That's just it, we're talking about people who are unreasonable; who want what they want, when they want it, how they want it; who trample normal, reasonable boundaries; and who never reciprocate, or make token gestures in order to use them to get what they want. I can only speak for myself, but I would guess that most of us who talk about learning to say No still do a lot for others, but on our own terms, and usually just not for the narcissists/users in our lives/families.

 

[MarieIG]

I was going to say no, but then I remembered that wouldn't be correct.

We are/ have been very involved with helping out family, and they have helped us . . .

 

[brett]

It is not about saying no or not doing a good turn.

It is about saying no to those who routinely want to take advantage of you financially or otherwise.

I see no difference between pre retirement or post retirement. It is not the fault of the person making the request or the demand.

The fault lies with the person who for some reason allows themselves to be taken advantage of .

It this is happening to you then look in the mirror. There is the source of your problem. Don't pass the blame to them.

Learn to say no to unreasonable requests OR continue to be treated like a door mat. It is entirely up to you.

Perhaps the complaint should really be I cannot say no to unreasonable or frequent requests from friends and relatives.

 

[Chuckanut]

It is not about saying no or not doing a good turn.

It is about saying no to those who routinely want to take advantage of you financially or otherwise.

I see no difference between pre retirement or post retirement. It is not the fault of the person making the request or the demand.

The fault lies with the person who for some reason allows themselves to be taken advantage of .

It this is happening to you then look in the mirror. There is the source of your problem. Don't pass the blame to them.

Learn to say no to unreasonable requests OR continue to be treated like a door mat. It is entirely up to you.

Perhaps the complaint should really be I cannot say no to unreasonable or frequent requests from friends and relatives.

+1

It’s about avoiding the crazy makers that infest our society.

 

[HawkOwl]

There is a degree of “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” in most interpersonal relationships. If the other person is abusing the social contract, a blunt refusal is a reasonable response.

If the other person feels that the request was not excessive, or that they have or will offer equal favors, a “no” will likely cause them to question whether you are a friend in the first place, and effect their response if you need help in the future. Whether that is a good trade off depends on the specifics.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

There is a degree of “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” in most interpersonal relationships. If the other person is abusing the social contract, a blunt refusal is a reasonable response.

If the other person feels that the request was not excessive, or that they have or will offer equal favors, a “no” will likely cause them to question whether you are a friend in the first place, and effect their response if you need help in the future. Whether that is a good trade off depends on the specifics.

Right, and for those to whom we feel a debt (parents), or we want to contribute without reciprocity (frail elderly, disabled), that changes a little, but not completely. Most family do for each other as they are able, and while there's no bean counting, if your adult child begs for help paying their phone, car, and rent and then they decide to go on a 3-week luxury cruise, that's not helping, that's being taken advantage of (to pick an extreme and blatant example).

 

[pacergal]

It is not about saying no or not doing a good turn.

It is about saying no to those who routinely want to take advantage of you financially or otherwise.

I see no difference between pre retirement or post retirement. It is not the fault of the person making the request or the demand.

The fault lies with the person who for some reason allows themselves to be taken advantage of .

It this is happening to you then look in the mirror. There is the source of your problem. Don't pass the blame to them.

Learn to say no to unreasonable requests OR continue to be treated like a door mat. It is entirely up to you.

Perhaps the complaint should really be I cannot say no to unreasonable or frequent requests from friends and relatives.

Exactly.

In OP's case, it seems as if his wife and daughter are the ones saying Yes, and expecting him to do the jobs. This is a different issue.
I would be frustrated if a family member expected me to do something they agreed too!

 

[brett]

Exactly.

In OP's case, it seems as if his wife and daughter are the ones saying Yes, and expecting him to do the jobs. This is a different issue.
I would be frustrated if a family member expected me to do something they agreed too!

No problem whatsoever. He just has to say no once or twice and let his wife or daughter embarrass themselves for having the temerity to commit him to something without his approval. They will get the message loud and clear!

No different from my perspective other than who makes the ask.

Spouse and children can just as easily take advantage of the other spouse as can some other relative or friend.

The real issue is not who but rather one's apparent willingness to be taken advantage of our one's seeming inability to reject being taken advantage of. The decision lies with him.

 

[Midpack]

I've never had a problem with giving a polite no when asked to do something I'd rather not. That didn't change when I retired. If I can help and want to great, otherwise sorry. I will go to great lengths for family & friends that I like, others not so much...

 

[athena53]

In some ways I'm more generous with my time now that I'm retired; due to a few issues at the blood bank yesterday I was there 2 hours to no avail. I needed to wait for a specific machine and what little plasma they got had to be thrown out because I had a hematoma and it wasn't flowing- totally useless visit but Stuff Happens and 99% of the time my donations go very smoothly. For a couple of months I drove a friend to church while she was living with her sister in my town (church is 17 miles away)- I enjoyed her company. We have another member who's unemployed and has no car and I'll be taking him soon.

BUT- I get really antsy now when meetings associated with my volunteer activities go on and on. When what was described as a "short meeting" after church was still going on over an hour later, I just got up, said, "I gotta leave" and then did so. When the HOA Board kept obsessing on stuff that was pure speculation, acknowledged my observation and then kept yammering on during a Zoom meeting, I cut off the video and surfed the Internet till they got back on track. I had to put up with that in my career but will NOT do it for free.

 

[Teacher Terry]

When I was married both my husband and I helped a couple stay together in their home for 2 years because they were good friends and he had terminal cancer and she had Alzheimer’s. It finally ended when we went on vacation for 3 weeks. She had to go to a nursing home and he to his son’s home for a few months until he died.

Two years ago I helped a friend from work bust out of a terrible nursing home with the help of another work friend. For a year we took him to doctor appointments, etc and got him into a really nice assisted living apartment within a facility. He was severely hearing impaired so couldn’t use a phone and had Parkinson’s disease. I went to visit at least weekly and ran over anytime the facility called because of health issues, etc. Sadly he died. When he died he left both the friend and I 20k each for helping him so much. I was totally shocked and had never received anything before. In these circumstances I would hope that if I was in the same situation someone would help me. I have helped people my entire life. People have reciprocated when they were able.

However, I have learned to say no to people that weren’t there for me emotionally when I got divorced and rarely ever even called. One of those started calling me daily when her husband died and has asked me to do things for her. I have supported her by phone but haven’t provided other support because of past behavior. I have tapered the calls to once a week. So I do agree that you have to weed out the losers.

Parents and in-laws were always a definite yes to help but none took advantage and did what they could. I had wonderful parents and were happy to help. They also helped babysit the kids when needed which was priceless . I also didn’t take advantage of them and expect it a lot.