The Electric Vehicle Thread

[Montecfo]

I was thinking that Texas had quite a bit of wind. I recall T Boone Pickens wanted to produce wind electricity in the "wind corridor" and integrate it into the grid and save nat. gas for ICE fuel. Nat Gas is a truly elegant fuel and should not just be burned for electricity. Burning Nat Gas in ICE cars is much cleaner than gasoline and has very few issues OTHER than a lack of fueling stations. THAT issue should be easier than electrifying. It only takes a few minutes to fuel with Nat Gas but 20 to 40 minutes for a full charge of electricity at most charging stations. SO, 3 "pumps" of Nat Gas is roughly the equivalent of a typical charging station with 20 charge connectors. Converting a car to Nat Gas is fairly easy and relatively inexpensive.



Point I was going for is that I really thought Texas was a leader in wind - probably beginning with T. Boone Pickens efforts.

They are a leader in wind but the growth of wind power has created capacity issues, because wind power is not persistent. It is in fact weather dependent and lulls after weather events or on hot summer days create brownout risk and calls to conserve.

These developments are relatively new for Texas but have become more common. Electrifying autos no doubt adds to the challenge.

You make a good point on natural gas as a surface fuel. Cheap, abundant clean burning and adds to fuel diversity. No concerning supply chain issues. These are more prominent in the rest of the world.

 

[Koolau]

Can’t explain about the ticket. It may have been parked in a charging only spot but not plugged in to charge. If a car finishes charging but stays plugged in past say 5 mins at a busy charger it may get billed extra. I don’t think there would be any ticket on the windshield in that case.

Depending on the location- generally chargers are not free. They charge by time or kWh. 33-44c per kWh for fast charging is common which is 2-3x what I pay at home. Usually you have an account setup and interact with an app. Some locations such as a hotel or a restaurant it will be free but these are generally low power thus slow chargers - OK for overnight at the hotel. For Tesla superchargers all I have to do is plug in. The car communicates with the charger and identifies itself and my Tesla account automatically bills a credit card.

There are multiple standards for charger connectors. Tesla opened up theirs last year and Ford recently adopted it for future cars and EV.go had already supported it in some locations. The Tesla NACS connector is far less bulky than others such as CCS or CHAdeMo so this is good to see. CCS is also common and used in Europe including Tesla. Tesla has retrofitted some of their superchargers to allow CCS as well. Some of the older slow connector standards will fade away.

I have adapters for just about everything. But when on the road the fastest and most reliable by far are the Tesla superchargers so I use them almost exclusively on a road trip. I can also use any RV pedestal or house socket and I have. Destination chargers such as at hotels are unreliable - parking availability, whether they are operational, etc are challenges. I’ve only occasionally used them opportunistically and don’t count on availability when traveling.

In the shopping center closest to us, there are a couple of free charging lanes. It says maximum time is 1 hour. I don't know if the charger turns off after 1 hour. The stalls are painted with green strips to distinguish it from other stalls. However, there is no enforcement of the parking. If a non EV parks in the stall, or if someone tries to charge for more than an hour, there are no tickets. I've seen ICE cars use the stalls, but not frequently. No idea what the charging rate is, but I'd bet it's not very fast.

 

[audreyh1]

In the shopping center closest to us, there are a couple of free charging lanes. It says maximum time is 1 hour. I don't know if the charger turns off after 1 hour. The stalls are painted with green strips to distinguish it from other stalls. However, there is no enforcement of the parking. If a non EV parks in the stall, or if someone tries to charge for more than an hour, there are no tickets. I've seen ICE cars use the stalls, but not frequently. No idea what the charging rate is, but I'd bet it's not very fast.

Generally free chargers are quite slow.

 

[Koolau]

Generally free chargers are quite slow.

I kinda figured that. I noticed that the business end look like it was structured for Non-Tesla vehicles. I know that 'cause I've watched my son use a fast charger on his Tesla.

 

[audreyh1]

I kinda figured that. I noticed that the business end look like it was structured for Non-Tesla vehicles. I know that 'cause I've watched my son use a fast charger on his Tesla.

A lot of free chargers are old and use a J1772 connector for which I have an adapter that came with the car but I have never used it.

I might have near my sister’s house (30 mins max free), but it was more convenient to plug into her 110 in the garage overnight which made up for local errands.

 

[Koolau]

A lot of free chargers are old and use a J1772 connector for which I have an adapter that came with the car but I have never used it.

Oh, and I've also noticed that the stalls are down quite regularly. I don't know if it's abuse, folks trying to put a round peg in a square hole or if the equipment is just sub-standard. I had thought for some time, I might buy a leaf and charge it there at the free spots since I have no other chargers close to home. Now, from what I see (and suspect) that would not be good move on my part at this time.

 

[audreyh1]

Oh, and I've also noticed that the stalls are down quite regularly. I don't know if it's abuse, folks trying to put a round peg in a square hole or if the equipment is just sub-standard. I had thought for some time, I might buy a leaf and charge it there at the free spots since I have no other chargers close to home. Now, from what I see (and suspect) that would not be good move on my part at this time.

I think the biggest problem is someone adds a charger but they don’t think or bother about maintenance. Tesla seems to be the only company determined to keep their chargers up all the time.

Yes, some are overused/abused. Maybe they aren’t up to high usage.

PlugShare is a great way to find and keep track of the state of any given charger. https://www.plugshare.com/

 

[Midpack]

I'm sure most here have seen the frequent reports of slow charging and frequent out of service chargers for all providers except Tesla.

A buddy of mine bought an Ioniq5 that came with 2 years of unlimited 30-min charging sessions at Electrify America charging stations. He also tells me when he goes to EA stations, he sees more owners who are only there to take advantage of the free charging that came with their car tying up stalls than paying customers. But I don't know who common that it? He charges at home...got tired of EA in less than a month.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/...onment/electric-vehicles-broken-chargers.html

 

[REWahoo]

I'm sure most here have seen the frequent reports of slow charging and frequent out of service chargers for all providers except Tesla.

A buddy of mine bought an Ioniq5 that came with 2 years of unlimited 30-min charging sessions at Electrify America charging stations. He also tells me when he goes to EA stations, he sees more owners who are only there to take advantage of the free charging that came with their car tying up stalls than paying customers. But I don't know who common that it? He charges at home...got tired of EA in less than a month.

I also see a lot of chatter on various EV forums about the poor reliability of non-Tesla charging stations. I have no personal experience since in the nine months I've owned our EV I have yet to visit a commercial charging station, not even a free one. I received a $500 charge credit at EVgo/Chargepoint stations with my purchase but have never used any of it.

Charging at home is so darned easy, convenient and inexpensive that I don't see ever needing a commercial charger - barring an emergency, of course. Our summer economy rates kicked in on the first of June and I'm now paying $0.068/kWh to charge. I topped off last night (to 80%) and my charging app says I paid $1.60 for 23.6 kW, which should add 97 miles to my range. That's a cost of 1.65 cents per mile.

I've said this before, but every time I drive that car I feel like I'm getting away with something!

 

[Internetskate]

I don't know if you even read what I wrote, but what limitation did I list above?

I think the way they are trying to frame it is all cars/things have “limits” and he is trying to use negative language to persuade others to see his view point.

I don’t like the limits of my ICE vehicle - I can’t fuel it up at home, have to change the oil, have to match RPM/gear for acceleration.

Lots of the comments are silly with people ignoring facts/data and trying to spin it by choosing words very carefully. “Primary vehicle” becomes “EV-only households”, etc.

I’m set to get an EV because I’m tired of ICE limitations. I’m aware if I get travel trailer the EV will have limitations towing ~200 mi to our various camping spots (will probably have to stop at a charger on the drive for maybe 10 min) but it’s better than the limitations for my current car (can’t tow a trailer, can’t fuel up at the camp site so I have to stop for gas in town, can’t plug trailer into the car if I want to boondock)

Our neighbors are not car people. They had 2 ICE. Old one needed replacement after ~15 years so they got an VW-EV. Other car is 5 years old. Guess they aren’t an “EV only household” but they have 2 drivers and both cars will be used daily.

 

[braumeister]

I also see a lot of chatter on various EV forums about the poor reliability of non-Tesla charging stations.

FWIW, I've use a great many charging stations all over the country in the five years I've had my PHEV, and I can only think of two or three occasions when I tried to use an inoperative one.

 

[REWahoo]

FWIW, I've use a great many charging stations all over the country in the five years I've had my PHEV, and I can only think of two or three occasions when I tried to use an inoperative one.

That's good to hear.

 

[audreyh1]

I'm sure most here have seen the frequent reports of slow charging and frequent out of service chargers for all providers except Tesla.

A buddy of mine bought an Ioniq5 that came with 2 years of unlimited 30-min charging sessions at Electrify America charging stations. He also tells me when he goes to EA stations, he sees more owners who are only there to take advantage of the free charging that came with their car tying up stalls than paying customers. But I don't know who common that it? He charges at home...got tired of EA in less than a month.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/...onment/electric-vehicles-broken-chargers.html

The Electrify America origin story in very interesting. It’s a subsidiary of the Volkswagen Group of America.

In 2015, the United States Environmental Protection Agency accused Volkswagen Group of using defeat devices in its diesel-fueled vehicles in order to hide from regulators that the vehicles exceeded emissions standards. The scandal quickly grew, leading eventually to billions of dollars of penalties and agreements to buy back vehicles, among other consequences.

As part of a consent decree reached with United States officials in 2016, Volkswagen agreed to numerous actions, with US$2 billion in total, to promote electric vehicle use over 10 years to atone for the additional air pollution it caused. One aspect of the program was a pledge to establish a public electric vehicle charging network.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ele...idiary of,of the Volkswagen emissions scandal

 

[Koolau]

I think the biggest problem is someone adds a charger but they don’t think or bother about maintenance. Tesla seems to be the only company determined to keep their chargers up all the time.

Yes, some are overused/abused. Maybe they aren’t up to high usage.

PlugShare is a great way to find and keep track of the state of any given charger. https://www.plugshare.com/

Something that surprises me is that - even free - few people take advantage of the chargers. Huh?

 

[Zathras]

Something that surprises me is that - even free - few people take advantage of the chargers. Huh?

I got some free charging with my MINI purchase last year. I haven't used it.
The convenience of charging at home, and waking up every morning with a 'full tank' is really, really nice.

For those that don't have the ability to charge at home, it is a great selling point.
For those that can charge at home, it isn't very impressive.

 

[audreyh1]

Something that surprises me is that - even free - few people take advantage of the chargers. Huh?

Well, if they are mostly charging at home why bother? I suppose this is where convenience trumps free.

It’s not completely free either - there are costs associated with driving somewhere and time as well. I figured out going from my sisters house to 30 mins free at the local college wouldn’t make up for the distance. If she lived in town maybe, but she’s out in the boonies. Plugged into her 110 outside overnight was a better option.

I don’t think I’d be willing to drive to a shopping center and wait for a while just to get free charging. If I’m shopping there anyway? Well I’m probably not gaining much charge during my 20-30 min shopping visit so again why bother?

 

[Montecfo]

There is a bank of chargers at a gas station near my house. All slots full all the time it seems. I get there, fuel up, no one leaves the electric chargers.

People that live in townhouses or apartments or who rent probably do not have the ability to charge at home conveniently.

Having said that, for those who can charging at home is a great convenience. Helps address range issues and lack of quick fueling capacity.

 

[Koolau]

Well, if they are mostly charging at home why bother? I suppose this is where convenience trumps free.

IIRC Hawaii has the fewest dwellings capable of providing charging to residents. I suppose a lot of EV owners here DO have the capability to charge at home. It's sort of "self selection." Maybe the people who can't charge at home just don't buy EVs here. So no need to charge. After all, we also have the worst charing network of any state IIRC.

Still, if your gonna shop anyway, why not plug in for free?? This is a huge lot with maybe 1000 stalls (by the way, at Christmas, it's FULL.)

 

[audreyh1]

Still, if you’re gonna shop anyway, why not plug in for free?? This is a huge lot with maybe 1000 stalls (by the way, at Christmas, it's FULL.)

Well I just explained why I probably wouldn’t bother. If it doesn’t make much difference to total charge, why bother. I do little retail shopping - just groceries and that’s quick.

 

[Koolau]

Well I just explained why I probably wouldn’t bother. If it doesn’t make much difference to total charge, why bother. I do little retail shopping - just groceries and that’s quick.

Heh, heh, in my case it would likely be because those 2 spots are literally the only place on the Island that I've seen charging stations (free or not.) My perusal of the internet looking for charging stations has found relatively few AND the buzz is that many are broken at any given time. So, if I'm going to Costco anyway, I'd snag one of those slots if it were available. I'm sure by the time I'd owned an EV as long as you have, I'd change my behavior as well.

 

[GhostofTomJoad]

Meanwhile: EV stocks..... Like LEV

...LEV going not just nowhere, but backwards, constantly, continuously. Since its IPO.

https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xnys/lev/quote

They have expanded to the USA. Started in a Montreal suburb.

 

[ken830]

...LEV going not just nowhere, but backwards, constantly, continuously. Since its IPO.

https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xnys/lev/quote

They have expanded to the USA. Started in a Montreal suburb.

Like vehicles, the same advice applies here... Just buy Tesla.

 

[folivier]

Help me understand how a PHEV (plug in hybrid) works please>
I think I understand that they have a smaller turbo ICE that is the main power source and the (smaller) battery pack powers electric motors for short range trips. But what happens on long road trips?
I'm imagining a vehicle for my purposes which include long trips of 500 miles each day + short local trips a vehicle where the ICE only acts as a generator to charge the battery rather than powering the drive wheels?
Is something like this available?
Like I said I don't understand a PHEV.

 

[ken830]

A regular hybrid harvests kinetic energy with regenerative braking and the ICE can be used to keep the battery in some optimal SoC. A plug-in hybrid is the same, but has a plug, so you can also charge it from shore power, but otherwise, it works identically.

Just think of a car that's not a very good gasoline car and a horrible EV... It's the worst of both worlds. Driving is no fun at all.

 

[REWahoo]

Just think of a car that's not a very good gasoline car and a horrible EV... It's the worst of both worlds. Driving is no fun at all.

As the owner of both a hybrid and an EV, I'm not aware of any factual basis in your above statement. My experience with my hybrid SUV is that it is a pleasure to drive.