What would happen if one ran out of $ later in life?

[Fermion]

My son-in-law's mother moved to Texas from Georgia to be near her son. She was on a 2 year long wait list for a Section 8 apartment that cost $800/month, plus utilities. She was working at Walmart making about $2 K/month. During those 2 years, she lived with him and my daughter. She was 62 at the time with no savings.

After my wife died last December, I started looking for apartments to see if that was something I wanted to do. Most 55+ apartment complexes here are charging near $2,000/month for a 762 sq.ft. one bedroom.

I am sorry for your loss.

But these people who are moving somewhere to be near a child or friend, they are making a choice. When you run out of money, sometimes you lose the ability to choose.

I would like to have a nice house on Lake Union in Seattle, perhaps with a boat dock in front. I can't afford that, so I don't live there.

I do get that it would be hard to move when you are 80. Perhaps an amendment to the answer of the OP's question would be to notice when you are not quite out of $$ and use the last bits to move to an area that can sustain you when you are truly out of $$.

I feel like he was asking what happens if he spends $10k a month and tosses his broker statements in the trash until one day his checks start bouncing.

 

[Birdie Num Nums]

...
I wasn't talking about the meth addict living in a van down by the river since age 23 who has paid in a total of $75 to SS.

Hey! He may have lived in a van down by the river, but he was never a meth addict!

 

[athena53]

To me, being out of money means you have sold off everything that you could. If I still have a home worth $400,000 with no mortgage, I am not "out of money".

I've been hearing radio ads for Truehold, which does a sale and leaseback to unlock equity. It seems a better option than a reverse mortgage, where you're still responsible for taxes, insurance and maintenance, but if you squander whatever cash they give you on fun things like travel (mentioned in the ads), and they increase rent to a point you can't afford it, you can still be forced out. I agree, though- equity in your house means you're not out of money. It gives you a few more options.

I find it depressing to think about all around - may have to abandon this thread.

Threads like this motivate me even more to make sure it does NOT happen to me.

 

[Walt34]

The things you own, end up owning you, they say.

But cutting out all your favorite toys would hurt, for sure.
Pay to play.

There is that of course. It has occurred to me more than once that a goodly percentage of the "stuff" we own is for house maintenance, as I do everything myself that I can. I don't hesitate to buy special tools, even if I'm pretty sure I'll only use it once. It's still cheaper than hiring someone and I get to keep the new [-]toy[/-] tool.

If we downsized to an apartment/condo, not only would our list of "stuff" shrink drastically, but also the expenses of housing. It helps that I actually like doing the maintenance stuff, even painting, but there will of course come a time when I cannot do that and we'll have no choice but to either hire it out or downsize.

As far as income goes, the pension plan I'm under is more than fully funded (105% at last report) and is about as secure as they come, second only to federal I think. (Bless their hearts, the county finance guys are both honest and conservative. But not too conservative.) And I think SS is also about a safe an income as there is. The politicians will pontificate and wring their hands and at the last minute, just like last time, they'll fix it lest they have the constituents with grandmas descending upon them with torches and pitchforks.

 

[Fermion]

I have built in panic points in our budget. At $$$$$ I just log on here and commiserate with others who have lost the equivalent value of a Model S in one bad market day. At $$$$ I start thinking about maybe I need more bonds. At $$$ I am selling our boat. At $$ I am selling our snowmobiles and other boat, maybe our mountain property. At $ I have likely cancelled most everything that could be cancelled, probably even sold the last vehicle.

I can't see going a scenario where we go from $$$$$ to 0 fast enough that I can't do anything, except a collapse of society and some form of hyper inflation (Argentina style)

 

[NW-Bound]

Gee, the market went down for one week, and people already talk gloomy.

Let's all quit this thread and go to the BTD thread.

 

[zippy2020]

Remember that if you are homeless, it's EXTREMELY difficult to sign up for help.

Have a friend who is struggling healthwise with fourth reoccurrence of breast cancer. While convalescing, she went on Medicaid and said it was a terrific struggle. Chemo and drugs made it hard for her to concentrate and she had very little energy. She was self-employed and the state required her to correctly estimate how much income she would generate in the month going forward, which was almost impossible for her to do (and it would be true if she had the usual part-time "side" employment - most of those have shifted to "just in time" call-ups).

A couple of times she was off in her estimates and had to pay back the equivalent monthly premium. She was relieved when she finally reached 65 and could go on Medicare, even though the premiums jumped for a year when she had to sell her home and move to another town for low income senior housing.

Even on lifeline utility and phone rates, free Net, she has to have a car to get to her specialists, and food inflation is tough on her budget. She says she has enough to get her to her 80's, but that's all.

It should also be noted, states with a LCOL are generally very poor in financially supporting a social safety net for their residents. Yes, there are a lot of small special programs scattered around, but almost all of them are strict about requirements and penalties.

 

[youbet]

Are you serious? Free internet took all of 2 minutes for me to set up for my mom.

2 minutes? Ridiculous! What did you do, stop at the pub for a couple of pints on the way over?

 

[TheWizard]

Gee, the market went down for one week, and people already talk gloomy.

Let's all quit this thread and go to the BTD thread.

I partly agree with that.
The underlying theme of this whole forum is Financial Independence ---> Retire somewhat Early.

It's not Go Broke for Whatever Reason and Live in a Refrigerator Carton under the Bridge...

 

[Stormy Kromer]

That is incredible story. Good for her.

Last time I checked with decent assisted living facility near us. It is $8000 per month. It will take some serious savings to be able to afford that for several years.

$7,000 plus for this one. Mom had enough for a couple years, I had her backed up after that.

They treated her like a Queen and she died 3 weeks later. I would have paid more. I'd like to add, they treated everyone there like Royalty no matter who was paying the bill. I respect them more than any corporate executive(except 1) I've ever worked with.

End of life workers are angels on earth and much underpaid. I love all of them. Can't pay them enough.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

I just have to toss this out there.

My Mother was 92 in April and living at home reasonably on her own.

June 18 cancer broke out her body and she was immediately disabled. You don't know how much health care facilities expect families to take care of elderly people, but it isnt really their job after they saved your life is it?. Take care of mom at home.

We all need to buckle down and realize its our job to take care of elderly family members. Not someone else's job. If they have the money to pay for help great, If not, help out however else you can. Just visit them, most of the time thats better than money anyway..

For the most part I'm a conservative, self reliant kind of guy. When it comes to orphans and elderly I'm very liberal, The rest of us can get a job and take care of ourselves.


Off my soap box. Good evening my friends.

 

[ivinsfan]

My experience is much different from what you describe. I’ve been helping a relative and most of the programs are very hard to navigate, especially if you are not internet savvy. I was shocked how many hoops we had to jump through to get “free” internet. It was a $30 credit per month on her bill. Things we take for granted like 2FA are baffling and humiliating to her. She expects to make a phone call and resolve every issue. She has a comfy senior apartment but her SS was not enough for her to qualify. After many attempts they found a loophole to let her in. They are not accepting any Sec 8 applications due to a years long backlog.

I don't know what to say about this...except it's in everyones best interest to get and stay internet savvy...it's a necessity.

 

[ivinsfan]

Only program I can think of in my city is section 8 and I recall a headline saying the wait list was closed. It opened briefly after another closure of a couple of years. I don't think it would be easy at all.

I know my disabled neighbor didn't qualify for things like utility assistance because she made something like $3 too much. . . Beyond that I can't say. Neighbor had cheap rent as sis owned the house.

They are probably there if you look...

 

[GenXguy]

I wasn't talking about the meth addict living in a van down by the river since age 23 who has paid in a total of $75 to SS.

That's a straw man. The people who I know who I was referring to are in no way drug addicts or illegal drug users nor do they live in a van by the river. That's pretty insulting to say about someone you don't know anything about.

There are many people that will have a difficult time living off primarily SS benefits, if they even get that, and did not live that type of lifestyle. Many people have a much more difficult path in life than others. You can assume they had the same opportunities as you and are failures because they came up short of money in their old age.

And as several others have commented, those social assistance programs can be very difficult to qualify for if they are even available, not to mention some long waiting lists.

And I don't think anyone should have to move to some crack bad neighborhood when they are a senior citizen due to low (or no) SS benefits. We should take care of them. Younger people can go to work, as someone else said. More of us should sell some of those "extra" vehicles that we are registering and donate the money to the needy.

 

[Fermion]

That's a straw man. The people who I know who I was referring to are in no way drug addicts or illegal drug users nor do they live in a van by the river. That's pretty insulting to say about someone you don't know anything about.

There are many people that will have a difficult time living off primarily SS benefits, if they even get that, and did not live that type of lifestyle. Many people have a much more difficult path in life than others. You can assume they had the same opportunities as you and are failures because they came up short of money in their old age.

And as several others have commented, those social assistance programs can be very difficult to qualify for if they are even available, not to mention some long waiting lists.

And I don't think anyone should have to move to some crack bad neighborhood when they are a senior citizen due to low (or no) SS benefits. We should take care of them. Younger people can go to work, as someone else said. More of us should sell some of those "extra" vehicles that we are registering and donate the money to the needy.

Don't immediately assume that just because an area is cheap, that it is crack bad neighborhood. That is also pretty insulting to neighborhoods you know nothing about.

Our town is quite nice, safe to walk around, and an apartment here is $550 to $700 a month, the hospital is decent and is a 5 block walk from 3 of the apartment complex in town.

I know not everyone gets $3,000 a month in SS. I just grabbed the average SS from a government website.

 

[ivinsfan]

That's a straw man. The people who I know who I was referring to are in no way drug addicts or illegal drug users nor do they live in a van by the river. That's pretty insulting to say about someone you don't know anything about.

There are many people that will have a difficult time living off primarily SS benefits, if they even get that, and did not live that type of lifestyle. Many people have a much more difficult path in life than others. You can assume they had the same opportunities as you and are failures because they came up short of money in their old age.

And as several others have commented, those social assistance programs can be very difficult to qualify for if they are even available, not to mention some long waiting lists.

And I don't think anyone should have to move to some crack bad neighborhood when they are a senior citizen due to low (or no) SS benefits. We should take care of them. Younger people can go to work, as someone else said. More of us should sell some of those "extra" vehicles that we are registering and donate the money to the needy.

Man this is harsh....In point of fact SS benefits tend to be made higher in regards to money contributed on the low end. Nobody said anything about someone being a failure if they got a low SS payment. Others including myself have mentioned there a many fill in the cracks program that GIVE government money to those on low incomes. SS was never supposed to be the sole source of income for someone as they age. The social net in this country is broad and wide if you can make use of it. But they don't come to you, you must go to them. ..My friend with only an SS check and the big house will likely end up with his power turned off and no food in his fridge because he doesn't want to ask for help or is in denial that this problem won't magically fix itself. I've looked up things, checked online and made calls, when I tell him what he need to do to straighten things out I either get a lecture or get ignored. I'm not sure what solution we can offer people in his position I do know there are people who can't or wont' reach out for help.

 

[NW-Bound]

...My friend with only an SS check and the big house will likely end up with his power turned off and no food in his fridge because he doesn't want to ask for help or is in denial that this problem won't magically fix itself. I've looked up things, checked online and made calls, when I tell him what he need to do to straighten things out I either get a lecture or get ignored. I'm not sure what solution we can offer people in his position I do know there are people who can't or wont' reach out for help.

I think this is the same friend who had an addiction of Ambien that you had a thread on.

I was very interested because the husband of my sister-in-law also had an addiction of Ambien that drove him to literal insanity. If it were not for his wife and kids who stepped in, he would have died of starvation because he refused to eat.

 

[Fermion]

Ok, so I just went to the SS calculator at https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/benefit6.cgi

I did the quick calculator and for someone born in 1956 I had them start working at Wal-mart in 1993 at a starting wage of $20,000 a year. They got a raise after 10 years and were making $25,000 a year in 2003. They got another raise after 10 more years and were making $30,000 in 2013. They finally retired in 2023 at age 67 still making $30,000 a year (they were not really good at getting raises).

The calculator says they get a payment of $1695 a month from SS at age 67.

I don't know about you, but working 30 years, starting at $20,000 a year and only having 2 raises and ending at $30,000 a year doesn't sound like a really high earner to me

 

[jazz4cash]

Are you serious? Free internet took all of 2 minutes for me to set up for my mom.

Yes, absolutely serious. The BIG POINT is that broad generic statements (it’s so easy….it’s very hard) just don’t fit every situation. YMMV.

 

[GenXguy]

Man this is harsh....<snip>. Nobody said anything about someone being a failure if they got a low SS payment.

Harsh? That comment was in response to the previous comment about them being meth addicts living in a van down by the river and not ever paying much at all into SS. That sure sounded like the poster was implying them to be failures who don't deserve any more than they get. I was the one defending those people against the comment. It's not an easy path for everyone, no matter how much effort they put in.

SS was never supposed to be the sole source of income for someone as they age.

This has already been mentioned in this thread (and countless others), and I already responded to it. It doesn't change the reality that many retirees are paying most of their bills from SS benefits. So repeating it doesn't help someone who doesn't have many years to prepare. And like I said earlier, there are many who do not even qualify for SS benefits at all despite being old enough.

 

[ivinsfan]

I think this is the same friend who had an addiction of Ambien that you had a thread on.

I was very interested because the husband of my sister-in-law also had an addiction of Ambien that drove him to literal insanity. If it were not for his wife and kids who stepped in, he would have died of starvation because he refused to eat.

You are correct and the Sh%^ should hit the fan anytime now..but it does point out that some people can't manage the steps to ask for what is readily available from the government.

 

[ivinsfan]

Harsh? That comment was in response to the previous comment about them being meth addicts living in a van down by the river and not ever paying much at all into SS. That sure sounded like the poster was implying them to be failures who don't deserve any more than they get. I was the one defending those people against the comment. It's not an easy path for everyone, no matter how much effort they put in.

Actually I meant there is no need to argue here, I didn't get that impression from the post you quoted. I think the issue is some people with difficult lives don't find it easy to jump through the hoops of our government. I have no idea how to fix that..many of us struggle but none of us are failures who don't deserve a helping hand.

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^ Some people need to be put in custody if they are going to be helped. And this applies to more than your friend.

We do not have a legal framework to come take people away. The husband of my sister-in-law fought her and their children. They were able to get him admitted to the hospital ICU only when he became too weak to fight.

PS. When Ambien got out of his brain, he gradually came to his senses. When he became normalized, he had no recollection of what transpired, what landed him in the ICU. Very bizarre and scary story. I would not believe it if we did not hear it from my sister-in-law. She and my wife are very close.

 

[ivinsfan]

Ok, so I just went to the SS calculator at https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/benefit6.cgi

I did the quick calculator and for someone born in 1956 I had them start working at Wal-mart in 1993 at a starting wage of $20,000 a year. They got a raise after 10 years and were making $25,000 a year in 2003. They got another raise after 10 more years and were making $30,000 in 2013. They finally retired in 2023 at age 67 still making $30,000 a year (they were not really good at getting raises).

The calculator says they get a payment of $1695 a month from SS at age 67.

I don't know about you, but working 30 years, starting at $20,000 a year and only having 2 raises and ending at $30,000 a year doesn't sound like a really high earner to me

SS benefits have always been slanted towards lower earners, but the higher benefits can''t replace the income the wasn't earned for 30 plus years.

 

[Fermion]

SS benefits have always been slanted towards lower earners, but the higher benefits can''t replace the income the wasn't earned for 30 plus years.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Our discussion is about running out of money and (maybe sidetracked), is there a safety net.

If you worked at Wal-Mart for 30 years then retired at 67, I get that you probably don't have $1 mil in a 401K, but I thought we were talking about running out of money, whether it be going from $20k in the bank to $0, or $2mil to $0.

I am saying you can live on $1695 a month in several (not crack death zones) parts of the USA.