Who gets paid if we have shutdown

[Car-Guy]

I think many look at it as a forced paid vacation that doesn't count against their accrued vacation time. Pretty good deal, if your part of the right group.
And you have saved to get you through until you do get paid.

So "we" just pay them later for doing "nothing" now?

 

[Andre1969]

I've been a gov't contractor since late 1992. I can remember three shutdowns. and they were all handled a bit differently.

On the first one, which was around 1995-96 (or maybe it was a several of them, just close together?) they sent all the government people home, but us contractors had to come in, and basically sit around and twiddle our thumbs. We got paid though.

The second one, which was October of 2013, was a bit different. They sent us home this time, and made us burn through our leave. I do remember we got paid for Columbus Day, though I also qualified for one week of employment, which at the time was something like $420 or $433, with no taxes taken out. Ultimately, they did reimburse us for whatever leave we used, and if it put us over our maximum leave accrual, they cut a check for the overage. I don't think we got reimbursed until early 2014, though.

This most recent one, at the end of 2018/early 2019, they sent us home with laptops, and encouraged us to take a lot of online training. Some employees were able to fudge enough hours to almost stay full-time, but in my case, a lot of the real work dried up, so I was only around 50-60% of full time, and had to use my leave to make up the difference. We eventually got reimbursed for that, too.

In my case, I was lucky, as I had a ton of leave saved up. But some people had to go negative on their leave balance. I think our company will let you go to negative 40 hours. And some people, I'm sure, had to take a reduced paycheck, if they burned through that, as well.

If there have been any shutdowns since then, I can't remember what happened.

I had very little invested back in 1995-96. I was married back then, and fast approaching a negative net worth! But in 2013, and the 2018-19 shut-downs, the stock market did pretty well, and I saw a ton of appreciation. So, if that set a precedent that will continue, I say SHUT IT DOWN!

 

[pb4uski]

if the IRS is shut down, do we still have to pay taxes?

Silly question. Yes. But if you don't pay they might not notice for a while, but the penalty for underpayment won't change.

 

[pb4uski]

...PS - I think it's utter nonsense that our elected officials repeatedly cannot get this done on time.

+1. If I were king then if Congress didn't approve a budget then they would all be deemed to have resigned and new elections for their replacements held within 60 days.

If we had a feature like that I'd bet the house that we would always have a budget in place by the deadline.

 

[pb4uski]

So "we" just pay them later for doing "nothing" now?

Yup. That's the way it works. Not their fault, they would rather just go to work

What is amazing/appalling to me are the stories of government employees who know this happens every so often but have no emergency fund so they can pay their bills when they are not receiving pay.

 

[Car-Guy]

Yup. That's the way it works. Not their fault, they would rather just go to work

What is amazing/appalling to me are the stories of government employees who know this happens every so often but have no emergency fund so they can pay their bills when they are not receiving pay.

That's unfortunate... But you'd think they should know better, especially after the first time.

 

[pb4uski]

But just wait, if we do have a shutdown within a couple weeks there will be stories and features on families where a government employee ithe breadwinner and they are struggling to pay their bills because they are not getting paid.

 

[Markola]

But just wait, if we do have a shutdown within a couple weeks there will be stories and features on families where a government employee ithe breadwinner and they are struggling to pay their bills because they are not getting paid.

That’s not so much about being a government worker as being a typical American, especially younger ones behind the curve with student loans.

 

[Robert the Red]

The gov never shuts down. That is the first big lie that is told and believed. The IRS continues to rake in money from taxpayers, those on the dole continue to receive benefits, the military soldiers on doing their thing, etc. Only a select few get told to stay home and enjoy the benefits of an additional paid vacation that the rest of us never get.

Since a furloughed employee is subject to recall within a day (in some cases, 2 hours), going on a "vacation" is not practicable. Most furloughed employees are upset at not being able to do their jobs, worrying about stuff that will pile up when they return, and (if the furlough lasts weeks) worried about money.

Especially upset are researchers in the middle of experiments that have to be shut down, and restarted later. That delay has resulted in the loss of months of work because the shut down caused the experiments progress to be destroyed -- for example, cancer cultures dying and having to be grown from scratch again. All to make a pointless political point.

 

[Andre1969]

Since a furloughed employee is subject to recall within a day (in some cases, 2 hours), going on a "vacation" is not practicable. Most furloughed employees are upset at not being able to do their jobs, worrying about stuff that will pile up when they return, and (if the furlough lasts weeks) worried about money.

Yep...my stepdad tried that tired trope on me back in 2019, when we were furloughed for about 5 weeks. He said something like "Well you're always talking about retiring, so now you get to see what it feels like!"

It actually got me mad, although mostly because he was putting words in my mouth. While I might talk about retirement, in certain circles, such as on here, I'd actually make it a point to talk as little as possible about it, to my Mom and stepdad. Mostly because they could get overly annoying and nagging, over just about ANY subject, and just don't know how to let something drop. By herself, Mom wasn't bad, but my stepdad could rub you wrong after about 5-10 minutes. And put them together and they'd just feed off each other, and reach levels of toxicity Mother Nature never intended! Mom died a couple months ago, and my stepdad has actually doubled down on the annoyance and nagging, which I didn't think was possible! He's also the type who never asks you for a favor, but rather tells you to do something. Like, instead of "Could you help me out with this?" it's "I need you to do t his for me." I learned ages ago to grow a backbone and simply say NO. But he doesn't give up, and would do his damndest to monopolize my time, if I let him. So, the LAST thing I'm going to do is talk about retirement with him, and give him the idea that I suddenly have all this free time he's entitled to.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling, and back to 2019. I ended up telling him that retirement is something you tend to do on your own terms, when you're financially and mentally ready for it, and without the prospect of being called back to work. So no, this was NOTHING like retirement. Plus, I still had to log into the company laptop, do some busy work, and clock out at some point later in the day. So it was more like being temporarily laid off, but knowing you're eventually going back to work, and it could very well be the next day.

It was nice not having to go to work, and I did have more free time, to run errands during the day go for a short walk here and there, and so forth. But, just with being called back to work any day looming large in my mind, it did NOT feel like the freed-from-the-shackles-of-work that i imagine retirement is supposed to feel like. It's not like I could plan any vacations. Well, I could, but I would have had to use leave for it, so it would have been like taking a vacation while I was working, anyway. And even though I was still charging about 50-60% of my normal hours, which is better than nothing, I was burning through my leave, and if that furlough went on long enough I would have been taking a pay cut.

I also wasn't financially ready to retire, in early 2019. I had just bought a house a few months earlier. It cost me about $175-180K up front (down payment, inspections, closing costs etc) just to get into it, and I wanted the market to go up enough to at least make that amount back for me. But after I bought the house, it went the other way! Plus, the mortgage payment was around $2900/mo back then (I've refinanced since then, and now it's around $2550), so no, I was nowhere near ready to retire.

One thing I've noticed, is that when you get an unexpected day off from work here and there, it actually feels special, like a treat. Sort of like a snow day back in school. But, with each additional day, there seems to be a diminishing return. In many respects, that ~5 weeks I had off work back in 2019 felt like 5 weeks of Sundays! Of course, YMMV.

 

[Koolau]

+1. If I were king then if Congress didn't approve a budget then they would all be deemed to have resigned and new elections for their replacements held within 60 days.

If we had a feature like that I'd bet the house that we would always have a budget in place by the deadline.

I like it.

 

[Badger]

It would be nice if Congress didn’t get paid during the shutdowns. And also not get to collect back pay when the shutdown ends. It might get them to actually solve problems instead of whining into to news media microphones. Maybe turn off the heat/AC to their offices too. Electricity should stay on though.

+1

Cheers!

 

[Markola]

^^^^^ Or turn on extra heat to the offices of the select few who are behind the nonsense. 150F would be a good start.

 

[Redbugdave]

Looking at the big picture...these shutdowns cost the govt much more waste, money and lost productivity than if it never happened. The added cost comes out of our tax dollars. What a waste.

 

[Car-Guy]

Looking at the big picture...these shutdowns cost the govt much more waste, money and lost productivity than if it never happened. The added cost comes out of our tax dollars. What a waste.

Just heard this morning on the news that many (maybe most) government agencies are only using 25%, and none are using more than 50%, of the office space they are allocated/paying for. No shutdown required. I wonder if they keep the "utilities on" (e.g. AC or heat) in all this unused office space too. Probably paying for things like cleaning and security too. Sure some of this is probably due to "some" still working from home "post COVID" but I understand this was a big problem before COVID too.

I know at my mega corp, they were always trying to optimize office space utilization due to the high cost... I have just one word for this waste that is "publishable here"... "Accountability"

 

[Koolau]

^^^^^ Or turn on extra heat to the offices of the select few who are behind the nonsense. 150F would be a good start.

Not suggesting right, wrong or indifferent, but a "shut down" is a form of political leverage. The "outs" have little leverage and a shut down gives some leverage. Whether that is a good or bad idea is something I leave to others. But Pols always seek leverage. It's the nature of the game. YMMV

 

[Markola]

But the “outs” are not causing this mess. The “ins” are fighting amongst themselves.

 

[MichaelB]

What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet

Shakespeare would prefer that we not get into the partisan aspects of this, even when using other names …

 

[TickTock]

Pretty good article on what happens if they shutdown, who gets paid etc. Quick read.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/government-shutdown-2023-what-happens/

Like what happens to entitlements:

"entitlement programs, including Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, are not halted during a shutdown because they are funded through permanent appropriations that don't require renewal. Entitlement payments keep going out, but staffing levels at the agencies could be affected and cause delays in enrollment or other service interruptions."

If Social Security checks, Medicare and Medicaid were on the 'not paid list', I predict that there would likely be none, and at most one, more "government shutdowns".

I will pay your bill when the government fulfills it's obligations to pay me...

 

[RxMan]

Looking at the big picture...these shutdowns cost the govt much more waste, money and lost productivity than if it never happened. The added cost comes out of our tax dollars. What a waste.

It’s easy to waste other people’s money. Members of Congress make a career out of it.

 

[yhoomajor]

We were told (when Congress was arguing over raising debt ceiling) that debt limit is the wrong thing to argue about. Congress already approved the budget. So if any thing, discussion needs to happen when budgets are approved, and that debt ceiling is irrelevant.

Well, now we are at $33 Trillion dollars in debt. Fast approaching $35T.

For argument sake, lets say deficits don't matter (fine if you believe that, but I don't). Then why not send a check of $10 million to every american?

At what point do we ask our Government to control its spending? It would be one thing if Government spending was done for the good of average Joe and Jane. But most of debt spending ends up in pockets of Billionaires who benefit from big government stimulus spending.

Billionaire rich keep getting richer. Average Joe gets to watch his budget.. balancing on how much to spend on Rent/Mortgage vs food.

 

[Markola]

At what point do we ask our Government to control its spending? It would be one thing if Government spending was done for the good of average Joe and Jane. But most of debt spending ends up in pockets of Billionaires who benefit from big government stimulus spending.

Probably at the point when Americans no longer want Medicare/Medicaid/ACA, Social Security or Defense.

 

[yhoomajor]

Probably at the point when Americans no longer want Medicare/Medicaid/ACA, Social Security or Defense.

 

[Markola]

Americans PAY for social security and medicare. Its not a freebies that Government doles out of debt.

So, what targets are left to cut that make a dent? Veterans? Defense? Not pay interest on the debt?

Raise taxes? OK. On whom?

 

[yhoomajor]

So, what targets are left to cut that make a dent? Veterans? Defense? Not pay interest on the debt?

Raise taxes? OK. On whom?

Do we really need to subsidize $50,000 EV cars? Should the federal government be responsible for ponying up monies for state & city level pension funds?
Why is US defense budget more than rest of world combined? The list is very long. And I am not here to convince anyone. Neither I will be able to.

Why does US government always raise the taxes on middle class, but always fail to close the carried interest loop hole? Loop hole that most billionaires on East and west coast enjoy. More so in Private equity.

Just close all the loop holes. But nope. Its much easier to take on more debt and burden common working citizen.