FinanceDude
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2006
- Messages
- 12,483
Might be the beginning of the end. Art G, what does your crystal ball say??
Do you mean the end of GM, or the end of the current market downdraft?
Ha
if GM ever goes Chap 11, it will be litigated for years to come
the only people to make money off it will be GM execs getting nice retention bonuses, lawyers, and the investment banks with their restructuring consulting fees
i bet the unions will spend a fortune litigating their pensions, medical benefits, plant closings and whatever
i think the last strike was in 2006 and i remember reading that part of the contract was a promise by GM to keep some models around for a specified amount of time. can't remember the details but it amazed me that the UAW was telling GM which models to build and for how long
That's true of some of their products, maybe even most, but producing low quality isn't the problem.You make a garbage product and this is what happens. I was born in the 1960's and my perception of GM and Ford is JUNK. Shame on me but that's how I see both. I would never buy either.
That's true of some of their products, maybe even most, but producing low quality isn't the problem.
The real issue is that unions and government regulations have forced companies like GM to turn into social institutions, carrying an unbearable burden of vacations, health care, and pension plans for their employees.
There's no way a company acting as a social institution can compete in a global market, where the competition isn't saddled with those burdens. If American businesses, like GM, were allowed to function as businesses, there would be no problem staying profitable.
My coworker just had an idea... GM could pull out of the domestic market and only make cars for other countries.
Might be the beginning of the end. Art G, what does your crystal ball say??
Agreed that they have other, serious, problems ... but the bottom line is no manufacturer of products that few customers are willing to buy can have any future. A well-deserved reputation for shoddy goods is a key part of GM's difficulties.That's true of some of their products, maybe even most, but producing low quality isn't the problem.
To the best of my knowledge, GM was not forced to do anything. It negotiated collective agreements of its own free will, without any governmental interference. And while I despise unions, one cannot blame the UAW for doing its utmost to feather the beds of its members.The real issue is that unions and government regulations have forced companies like GM to turn into social institutions, carrying an unbearable burden of vacations, health care, and pension plans for their employees.... If American businesses, like GM, were allowed to function as businesses, there would be no problem staying profitable.
You're right that a company cannot survive without sales. Seeing a drop in sales across all manufacturers, though, may tell us that the issue is not necessarily one of quality. For example, even Toyota, with its high-quality offerings has seen a drop in sales.Agreed that they have other, serious, problems ... but the bottom line is no manufacturer of products that few customers are willing to buy can have any future. A well-deserved reputation for shoddy goods is a key part of GM's difficulties.
Well, union negotiations are basically legalized blackmail. Of course, I don't blame the unions themselves for doing their best for their members (and corrupt leaders), but it sure looks like big business can no longer afford unions altogether. Maybe GM will be forced to follow the Wal-Mart's model.To the best of my knowledge, GM was not forced to do anything. It negotiated collective agreements of its own free will, without any governmental interference. And while I despise unions, one cannot blame the UAW for doing its utmost to feather the beds of its members.
I guess that's true. While the experience of Cuba suggests that people are able to make cars last a long time if they have to, the Cuban climate is probably a lot better for old cars than that of the northern states and Canada, where generous winter salt usage is usually a problem.It's just a matter of time before car sales pick up, though, as older cars break down and repairs become more costly than the price of a new lease.
Oh I do hope so. They're just BAD, on so many levels.I do think that the era of large gas guzzlers is coming to an abrupt end
To the best of my knowledge, GM was not forced to do anything. It negotiated collective agreements of its own free will, without any governmental interference.
Toyota (-21% in June) sales have not fallen as much as Ford (-28%) or Chrysler (-46%) - and Honda actually sales increased 1% (even they don't know why). GM sales were off -18%. But the critical difference is Toyota and Honda have products in the pipeline now that will meet the needs of a buyer facing $4-7/gal gasoline near term. I suspect the pipeline at GM, Ford and Chrysler is filled with options like the recently introduced Escalade Hybrid ("Intelligent Indulgence" indeed) and the Camaro. And I'd be willing to bet Honda and Toyota will fare far better over the next few years than the 'big three' (doesn't have the ring it once did...).You're right that a company cannot survive without sales. Seeing a drop in sales across all manufacturers, though, may tell us that the issue is not necessarily one of quality. For example, even Toyota, with its high-quality offerings has seen a drop in sales.
I do think that the era of large gas guzzlers is coming to an abrupt end, so the question will be whether GM can shift its manufacturing to smaller cars. That will take major restructuring (meaning many more layoffs and transfers). In the end, though, GM might have to cut off its cushy employee benefits to stay afloat.
Then GM should have relocated its operations to a more company-friendly environment. It made the decision to stay in Michigan etc. Nobody forced it.Various laws (i.e. government interference) tipped the balance against companies and toward unions in these negotiations. It's better in some places than others (e.g. "right-to-work" states here in the US typically are more evenhanded in their laws", but that's not where most GM operations are based).
I thought the 'Big Three' meant Honda, Toyota and Nissan? Must be a generational thing...
Toyota (-21% in June) sales have not fallen as much as Ford (-28%) or Chrysler (-46%) - and Honda actually sales increased 1% (even they don't know why). GM sales were off -18%. But the critical difference is Toyota and Honda have products in the pipeline now that will meet the needs of a buyer facing $4-7/gal gasoline near term. I suspect the pipeline at GM, Ford and Chrysler is filled with options like the recently introduced Escalade Hybrid ("Intelligent Indulgence" indeed) and the Camaro. And I'd be willing to bet Honda and Toyota will fare far better over the next few years than the 'big three' (doesn't have the ring it once did...).