Cramer Blaming Obama

[travelover]

I sure wish you'd post this stuff in the political forum since I have that firmly on IGNORE.

 

[dex]

I sure wish you'd post this stuff in the political forum since I have that firmly on IGNORE.

I think the difference is that no one is saying my candidate is better than your candidate or slamming a candidate, or even Dems are better than Repubs.

This is in the vane of general POTUS criticism which is always always in season.

 

[HFWR]

Let's get one thing straight: Cramer is NOT entertainment...

Using an analogy, I fear the economy is like an old clunker; if you take your foot off the gas, it might die, and you'll never get it started again.

I'm not sure I agree, but many of the smartest guys in the room think the prospect of deflation is so bad, they're willing to try anything to keep it from happening.

I also think that the US and China are about the only economies/countries with the ability to "reinflate", though that's also a questrionable assumption...

The numbers we're talking about here are mind bogglin'... Prez Obama had better have a sharp knife to cut enough fat out of the budget to reduce the deficit, let alone the debt.

But to discuss how this relates to FIRE: in my case, we can probably lose the E; I don't think it's going too be "early"...

 

[youbet]

The good thing about still working

There's an oxymoron!

 

[ziggy29]

There's an oxymoron!

Not if your economic survival depends on being able to hold onto your job...

 

[Gone4Good]

Is your 401(k) worth more than it was on election day? FYI The S&P was about 27% higher then.

Market aren't about politics, just confidence about the future being better than the present. The market participants have spoken as to what they think of Obama's vision of our financial future is.

This might hold if we assume the economic outlook consists of only one variable "Obama's vision" and ignore the 17% rise in the SPX the week leading up to Nov 4.

 

[youbet]

Not if your economic survival depends on being able to hold onto your job...

Maybe for you Zig..... But for me, having to work in order to survive economically is not a good thing! Maybe a necessary thing, but not a good thing!

 

[youbet]

The market participants have spoken as to what they think of Obama's vision of our financial future is.

Now there's a true statement! They may be right, they may be wrong, but market participants clearly are not optimistic about our future and are expressing that feeling with their dollars.

 

[HFWR]

Now there's a true statement! They may be right, they may be wrong, but market participants clearly are not optimistic about our future and are expressing that feeling with their dollars.

What about me, and probably lots of index funds, and pension plans, who are not daytraders, and are in the market for the long run? No knee-jerk market timing, just investing. Where else you going to go? Half-percent bonds?

I'm not sure the day-to-day gyrations of the market, at this particular point in time, are indicative of anything but the panic du jour...

 

[bubba]

So I guess your 401k was doing just great before Obama took office, huh?

It was doing a whole lot better than it is now; thanks for asking!

 

[youbet]

What about me, and probably lots of index funds, and pension plans, who are not daytraders, and are in the market for the long run? No knee-jerk market timing, just investing. Where else you going to go? Half-percent bonds?

I'm not sure the day-to-day gyrations of the market, at this particular point in time, is indicative of anything but the panic du jour...

I'm not talking about day-to-day gyrations, I'm talking about a downward trend that's been in place for some time now. Active participants in the marketplace are buying/selling ownership in American businesses for lower and lower prices. IMO, the net outcome of transactions over the past year+ expresses lack of optimism for the future.

Sellers may be wrong and perhaps today's buyers (who are btw optimistic about the future at least in relation to today's so-called bargain prices) may be rewarded. But I think the falling valuation of businesses is indicative of a net lack of optimism.

I share your pain. As a long term, buy and hold indexer this has been an extremely painful ride down that has changed our lives for the worse. And I'm not optimistic about the future of business as we've thought of it during my lifetime. I guess I'm part of the problem. I'm looking and listening and concluding NOT to invest further in businesses at this time.

 

[newporttony]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29434104

Let me be very clear on the economics of President Obama’s State of the Union speech and his budget.
He is declaring war on investors, entrepreneurs, small businesses, large corporations, and private-equity and venture-capital funds.

 

[HFWR]

I'm shocked that Larry Kudlow could say such a thing...

 

[newporttony]

I'm shocked that Larry Kudlow could say such a thing...

Actually, Larry has been very complimentary of BHO in the past. He was one of a handful of conservatives invited to meet with him before he took office and has been pretty supportive of he man.

 

[bubba]

I'll be the first to admit that during the election campaign Obama was too liberal for my tastes, but recognizing that the economy was is bad shape, I thought/hoped that he would help restore confidence to the markets and provide some guidance and hope for the economy. While he has only been in office a short time, as someone said earlier, the buyers and sellers apparently see no reason for renewed confidence. President Obama is as far as I know a very honorable man, and I respect him as our president. Cramer gets on the last nerve I have, and I can't watch him so the only thing I know about what he said is what I've read here. All I know is that at 52 years old, I've seen a few recessions, and maybe it is because I'm older now but I can't imagine how to accomplish any retirement (early or otherwise) given the losses in the retirement accounts. The only reason I post this here is because I don't want to look like someone who jumps in once in a while to take a pot shot at another political party. To me, my concerns are valid and pressing, and right now I see nothing encouraging coming out of Washington. My hope is that I can revise this point of view shortly.

 

[FatCyclist]

I feel I must rise in defense of Mr. Cramer. I'll be the first to admit that his antics are an unnecessary irritant. However, he was right about the housing bubble. And he was right when he told viewers of the Today show to get any money they will need in the next 5 years out of stocks some 3000+ Dow points ago. I believe he is right when he argues that the financial crisis will not stabilize until confidence returns to the housing market (why would a bank make a loan when the underlying collateral decreases in value every month?).

The S&P 500 is 26.9% lower than it was the day of the election. It is down 8.7 % in the month since the inaugural. Clearly, the stock market's confidence has not been restored by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, the TARP, the continuing investments in the mega-banks and a proposed $3.6 trillion budget that is 49% ($1.75 trillion) deficit spending. The implications of this last item for future taxes, interest rates and inflation are (IMO) enormous.

Would anyone be able to do better than Mr. Obama and his team? Maybe not. No one can argue that he hasn't been dealt a lousy hand. But they're the only cards he--and all of us--have. Mr. Cramer argues that the President and his team have not played the hand well as evidenced by a pork laden spending bill, confused messages from Mr. Geithner, and the announcement of a budget that doesn't even make an attempt to rein in spending. Regardless of your party affiliation, you've got to admit Cramer's got a legitimate argument.

 

[ziggy29]

The S&P 500 is 26.9% lower than it was the day of the election. It is down 8.7 % in the month since the inaugural. Clearly, the stock market's confidence has not been restored by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, the TARP, the continuing investments in the mega-banks and a proposed $3.6 trillion budget that is 49% ($1.75 trillion) deficit spending. The implications of this last item for future taxes, interest rates and inflation are (IMO) enormous.

Would anyone be able to do better than Mr. Obama and his team? Maybe not. No one can argue that he hasn't been dealt a lousy hand. But they're the only cards he--and all of us--have. Mr. Cramer argues that the President and his team have not played the hand well as evidenced by a pork laden spending bill, confused messages from Mr. Geithner, and the announcement of a budget that doesn't even make an attempt to rein in spending. Regardless of your party affiliation, you've got to admit Cramer's got a legitimate argument.

Plus, I'd add that the stuff Bush and Paulson were doing wasn't exactly well-received by the markets, either. So I don't think it's Obama per se or his specific policies per se, but the markets seem to be indicating that they don't think any government interventions will work. I'm not sure I believe that, but I would believe that as much as we feel we need to "do something," doing something bad is worse than doing nothing at all.

In any event, I think the market is saying that it believes we need to hit the "reset button," let everything collapse, and rebuild from the ashes. Because nothing that's perceived as "propping up" sick institutions is doing anything but tanking the market.

And on that note, I'm moving this thread into the politics area.

 

[Rustic23]

"a very honorable man" He is a Chicago politician!

 

[dex]

"a very honorable man" He is a Chicago politician!

Let's shorten that to: He's a politician.

I don't know what McCain would have done. But I'm glad I don't have to listen to all Hollywood actors, comics, and general media make jokes about him. Can you imagine what we would have had to listen to if Obama lost?

 

[youbet]

Let's shorten that to: He's a politician.

I don't know what McCain would have done. But I'm glad I don't have to listen to all Hollywood actors, comics, and general media make jokes about him. Can you imagine what we would have had to listen to if Obama lost?

Good point Dex. It's true that the language and tone of the anti-McCain folks had gone way over the top by the end of the campaign. Now, even a whisper than Obama is not perfect is met with cries that the speaker is unpatriotic, a bigot, etc. I sense a little hypocrisy..... and since I like to beat up on all candidates and politicians, I think it's unfair to not allow open criticism of everybody from everybody.

 

[Dawg52]

Good point Dex. It's true that the language and tone of the anti-McCain folks had gone way over the top by the end of the campaign. Now, even a whisper than Obama is not perfect is met with cries that the speaker is unpatriotic, a bigot, etc. I sense a little hypocrisy..... and since I like to beat up on all candidates and politicians, I think it's unfair to not allow open criticism of everybody from everybody.

As borrow a phrase used concerning the stock market....."it's different this time".

 

[SkisALot]

I agree 100%. I am disgusted by him now. I guess he just wants Wall Street to stay the way it has been. As I said in an earlier post on another thread...the more these fools on Wall Street squeal, the more bullish I get. Obama's change movement is starting to bite on the Street and I could not be happier about that.

Let's see how happy your are when Obama's "change movement" bites your wallet and your freedom.

 

[lightwaves]

Skis...since you do not seems happy with Obama's solutions, what do you propose?

 

[OhSoClose]

. . . but the markets seem to be indicating that they don't think any government interventions will work. I'm not sure I believe that, but I would believe that as much as we feel we need to "do something," doing something bad is worse than doing nothing at all.

Ziggy, there ain't a politician alive, democrat or republican, who under these circumstances would risk doing nothing and being percieved by history as another Herbert Hoover. Let's just hope if Obama isn't doing the right thing now he figures it out in time. Lol.

 

[jug]

Let's see how happy your are when Obama's "change movement" bites your wallet and your freedom.

Obama's solutions are definitely gonna bit the wallet, how could they not?

As for freedom, what is that all about? I don't think the country is going to turn into a police state unless of course the economy sinks badly and there is much civil unrest, that is possible.

Freedom is relative. If you are working your ass off for many years, hating it, but paying for all the goodies, that are nothing but temporary fixes, are you free?

The only thing I see the democrats doing is getting us into more debt, but isn't that exactly what the other side would do?

The crisis as I see it, and from what I read about it, choosing carefully not to politicize it, was perpetrated by those who should have known better, such as the bankers, the brokers, the politicians, the Fed, the Sec, all the so called pros who would or could not think systematically enough into the future to see that this whole house of cards would eventually come tumbling down.

To blame Joe six pack for buying a house he couldn't afford is easy to do, but it's the ones who should have known better, the professionals that sold him a product knowing he was going to go down the tubes.

Now that the country is leveraged, another term for in hock, up to it's eyeballs, what do we do? Does Rush Limbaugh and his CPAC people have a solution, perhaps we should just let the chips fall where they may, perhaps that would lead to many more layoffs and worse, civil insurrection.

Who knows?


jug, hates to pay bills