AA FUBAR - No Pilots

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Red Badger

Red Badger

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So, American Airlines accidently gave all pilots Christmas vacation. :nonono: I'm suggesting all confirmed passengers dust off their DVD (or VHS) of Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. Oh, and buckle up. The ride's about to get bumpy!
 
As soon as I read about that I checked my airline reservations. Not on AA. Whew!
 
love how they blame it on a computer error - who wrote the vacation code?
 
I am really surprised they cannot force them in to work...

I know when something like that happened when I worked at mega they told some that they had to come in anyhow... if not, then do not worry about coming in after your vacation....

I have seen that they are offering 150% of salary, which they said is the maximum they can offer....
 
Texas Proud said:
I am really surprised they cannot force them in to work...

I know when something like that happened when I worked at mega they told some that they had to come in anyhow... if not, then do not worry about coming in after your vacation....

I have seen that they are offering 150% of salary, which they said is the maximum they can offer....
Click to expand...

Answer: Union
 
DW & I are flying AA int'l on 3 January. Hopefully those pilots are well rested after their vacations!
 
Gulp.

I am flying American Airlines on an overnight flight from Miami to Santiago, Chile on Dec. 6-7. And I have a return American Airlines overnight flight Dec. 23-4 from Buenos Aires, Argentina to Miami.

(It may end up being Feliz Navidad for me if I am marooned in BA. :nonono:)

omni
 
On a flight out of Madrid a fews years ago we got stuck in a strike. Sat on the plane 45 minutes before taking off. When we arrived in Dallas every flight was either cancelled or delayed. Finally got rebooked, sat down on the plane and waited another hour to get a flight crew sent in from Houston. Then another hour because the pilot saw a "problem" and had to call in a mechanic from home.
If we weren't so tired and could think better we would have gone to a hotel and flown out the next day.
I try not to fly AA since that experience.
 
Aerides said:
Answer: Union
Click to expand...

I agree...


I saw something scrolling on the bottom of the TV... the union was telling its pilots to NOT take the airline's offer for 150%... that it was not in the contract...


SOOO, the union would rather screw the company instead of working on fixing a problem that happened by accident or some other reason...
 
Texas Proud said:
SOOO, the union would rather screw the company instead of working on fixing a problem that happened by accident or some other reason...
Click to expand...

Kind of tells you something about the union management. This attitude usually spills over into the rank and file. I had 30 years of dealing with unions, several in the same plant I ran. No wonder U.S.manufacturing has gone overseas in many industries.
 
Big_Hitter said:
love how they blame it on a computer error - who wrote the vacation code?
Click to expand...

The same folks probably who wrote the code for the Ryanair pilot scheduling system.

Ryanair cancels flights after 'messing up' pilot holidays - BBC News

Ryanair cancelled 82 flights on Sunday after admitting it had "messed up" the planning of its pilots' holidays.
The budget airline said on Saturday that it would cancel 40-50 flights every day for the next six weeks.
Marketing officer Kenny Jacobs said affected customers with bookings up to 20 September had been informed.
"We have messed up in the planning of pilot holidays and we're working hard to fix that," he said.
Click to expand...
 
Texas Proud said:
I agree...


I saw something scrolling on the bottom of the TV... the union was telling its pilots to NOT take the airline's offer for 150%... that it was not in the contract...


SOOO, the union would rather screw the company instead of working on fixing a problem that happened by accident or some other reason...
Click to expand...

The union would rather screw all the innocent people who purchased tickets and are now caught in this mess!
 
Unions look at it as leverage.... they have something the airlines want, let's use it to get the most out of them we can. Same as a mega telling their non-union people they must work on a holiday or don't come back in.
 
Big_Hitter said:
not a lot of unions in TX, hence the confusion, although I've had the same experience with regard to staffing around the holidays
Click to expand...

It's not specific to Texas. Airline pilots have one of the strongest unions that are out there (although AA pilots have their own, not associated with the mega-pilot-union ALPA). AA pilots and management have been at odds for a very, VERY long time...and that's all I will say about that to keep porky at bay.

For those of you flying AA, I will only say what my Dad has said for year (he flew for Eastern way back in the day)..."If you have time to spare, go by air!"

aja8888 said:
Kind of tells you something about the union management. This attitude usually spills over into the rank and file. I had 30 years of dealing with unions, several in the same plant I ran. No wonder U.S.manufacturing has gone overseas in many industries.
Click to expand...

While in the AF, I had very little dealings with unions, but I heard stories from my Dad about all sorts of shenanigans. BUT...my last assignment was doing flight test of planes after being modified by a mega-DoD-contractor and my first dealings with unions. They made my life very, VERY difficult.
 
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So, are they going to make everyone sit on the tarmac waiting for their vacation to be over?

I don't see how unions are any worse than not-unions. It's a "depends on whose ox is being gored" thing. Personally I am ambivalent about unions. The worst thing about them is they are actually a business. They are in the "business" of labor. Hence they succumb to the same things that drive businesses. No one, at least in this culture, seems to be ale to rise above things.

And it was a business management act to screw up the vacation schedule. The union didn't do that. The union is just reacting the way a businessman would react if he thought he could scam something extra. Again, cannot seem to rise above things and find --The Best-- solution.
 
I have no issue with it being a union per se.

5000 people legit submitted vacation requests, and had them approved, made plans with their families for the holidays. They should (IMO) negotiate for fair and strong compensation to give that up vs. "tough, fly or you're fired" which might happen otherwise. Time-and-a-half? Not good enough for me to go back to work. And would not have been good enough for me to give up my holiday break when I was still working.

And in an industry where overtime abuse might otherwise run rampant, the unions probably work to keep that in check. I don't want pilots taking 30 hour shifts to take up the slack here and falling asleep on my flight... I want this controlled!
 
Aerides said:
I have no issue with it being a union per se.

5000 people legit submitted vacation requests, and had them approved, made plans with their families for the holidays. They should (IMO) negotiate for fair and strong compensation to give that up vs. "tough, fly or you're fired" which might happen otherwise.

And in an industry where overtime abuse might otherwise run rampant, the unions probably work to keep that in check. I don't want pilots taking 30 hour shifts to take up the slack here and falling asleep on my flight... I want this controlled!
Click to expand...

They won't get fired, the union will make sure that doesn't happen. And there are rules (federal aviation regulations) that limit the duty day of a pilot. Many years ago, the unions were necessary for worker's rights and safety...today...yeah, not so much.
 
Aerides said:
I have no issue with it being a union per se.

5000 people legit submitted vacation requests, and had them approved, made plans with their families for the holidays. They should (IMO) negotiate for fair and strong compensation to give that up vs. "tough, fly or you're fired" which might happen otherwise. Time-and-a-half? Not good enough for me to go back to work. And would not have been good enough for me to give up my holiday break when I was still working.

And in an industry where overtime abuse might otherwise run rampant, the unions probably work to keep that in check. I don't want pilots taking 30 hour shifts to take up the slack here and falling asleep on my flight... I want this controlled!
Click to expand...


I would bet that all 5000 did not make vacation plans...

There also is a seniority system in place... so if the airlines needs 1000 pilots you first ask for volunteers and then fill the rest of the slots with the bottom of seniority...

You can make it up to an employee at some other time... but not with the union...

As an example... I had a friend who worked at a power plant... the pay for working a holiday was 2 1/2 pay... he always worked a double shift since he was not married.... said it was almost always easy and it was a big check...

My sister was a nurse... they alternated holidays... if you took this then you got off that....

It seems like the airline is trying to do something to get pilots in, but the union seems to not want to help... that is very bad IMO if an employee is unwilling to help out the employer in a time of need...
 
aja8888 said:
Kind of tells you something about the union management. This attitude usually spills over into the rank and file. I had 30 years of dealing with unions, several in the same plant I ran. No wonder U.S.manufacturing has gone overseas in many industries.
Click to expand...
Didn't spend a lot of time in a union, but this was my experience as well.

When I was in college, I worked in a unionized grocery store. I worked in the Produce Dept, which was right next to Dairy. On holidays and busy weekends, occasionally the milk case would get wiped out and I could see customers standing there wondering how they could get a gallon of milk or some half-and-half. So, I'd run over and pull out a couple of cases of these items from the back to tide things over until the dairy guy restocked everything.

Turns out that was a violation of the union contract - only the dairy guy was allowed to stock the dairy case.

The customers didn't care who put out the milk, and the store manager sure didn't; it was the union who threatened me. The union rep told me that if I did it again I would be kicked out of the union (no union card, no job).

To me, it was a customer service thing. Happy customers are good for the company and good for the union. But, the union didn't care about the customers, the company, or, for that matter, me.
 
This is a serious management failure, pure and simple. In fact, multiple fails. It took too long to detect and stop the vacation scheduling problem. They (apparently) did not involve the pilots union in looking for a solution. The issue became public before a solution has been agreed. Poor management here.

The pilots did not cause this problem and they are not responsible for developing the solution. If they want more money to abandon their vacation plans, they’re certainly not any greedier than management. These are the moments when CEOs and executives earn the big bucks they’re being paid. The AA CEO makes $16M and the 5 man executive team >$40M. If they can’t deal with this problem they aren’t doing their job.

If I were a shareholder, I’d look to the executive team to 1) take responsibility, 2) assure customers their flights will stay on schedule, and 3) involve the pilots in solving the issue. All of that, today.
 
MichaelB said:
This is a serious management failure, pure and simple. In fact, multiple fails. It took too long to detect and stop the vacation scheduling problem. They (apparently) did not involve the pilots union in looking for a solution. The issue became public before a solution has been agreed. Poor management here.

The pilots did not cause this problem and they are not responsible for developing the solution. If they want more money to abandon their vacation plans, they’re certainly not any greedier than management. These are the moments when CEOs and executives earn the big bucks they’re being paid. The AA CEO makes $16M and the 5 man executive team >$40M. If they can’t deal with this problem they aren’t doing their job.

If I were a shareholder, I’d look to the executive team to 1) take responsibility, 2) assure customers their flights will stay on schedule, and 3) involve the pilots in solving the issue. All of that, today.
Click to expand...

In chatting with the friend who flies for AA, it stemmed from a glitch in a new scheduling software that pilots have started using. Much of the fuss was started by APA (pilots union) when they sent out a press release about what was going on BEFORE management was able to well, MANAGE the issue...more games with the union v. management that has been going on for YEARS. The lines (flights) will be covered, no worries. AA may have to pay up to 400% of normal rates, but it will happen. This is generally a case of the media "overblowing" a situation...albeit with the help of APA.
 
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