Advice wanted on Fed Tax situation

My input: From my many years of working IT, Actuarial at a Financial Company....and take this for what it is worth. Literally, you had $6000 come out. Period. Those amounts came out of a equity account, so real amounts on real days, that caused the sale of real units of mutual funds/stocks to literally happen on the day of the request. So, the withdrawal amount was indeed $6000. There is a deposit amount of $3000, on another day buying real units of stocks or mutual funds. Who knows, that '2nd' $3000 when sold from your account, may have been when the market was high, and the $3000 then deposited, might have been when the market was low, hence, giving you an unforeseen 'advantage'. Of course, it could have been the other way, too...Bottom line, you had 2 withdrawals, that they by law have to do on the request date..and they can only 'undo' if there was a mistake...there was no mistake. She had legal right to ask for that money. You've now solved it for the future, by being the POA. So, just assume you made money off the sell and buy of that $3000, and that will hopefully pay the taxes that this 'uh oh' incurred. Schwabb did nothing wrong..and they can't make up a 1099...
 
I would show the $3,000 returned to the account as a rollover. Problem solved.
Gill
My thoughts exactly.... I had a distribution (taxable) from an IRA and a rollover (not taxable) from a 401k..... I got tax forms for both but taxed only on the IRA withdrawal. Sounds about the same to me.
 
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I did not get a 5498, just a 1099. I do have a copy of the confirmation from the investment co. showing it as a rollover which I also gave to my accountant with the letter. Now looking at my tax returns I see he included the amount on line 4a on my 1040 as an IRA distribution and taxable!

So I called him this evening but he was just going home so he said he will check into it tomorrow. I hope he can correct this and do an addendum.

Thanks. Good thing I saw this thread. So much for counting on a CPA.
 
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I did not get a 5498, just a 1099. I do have a copy of the confirmation from the investment co. showing it as a rollover which I also gave to my accountant with the letter. Now looking at my tax returns I see he included the amount on line 4a on my 1040 as an IRA distribution and taxable!

So I called him this evening but he was just going home so he said he will check into it tomorrow. I hope he can correct this and do an addendum.

Thanks. Good thing I saw this thread. So much for counting on a CPA.


Line 4a is the distributed amount. Line 4b is the taxable amount. If 4b is zero, the CPA did the rollover correctly.
 
Yes. Right. It shows on 4 b as taxable and it should not.

Now I’m stressed.
 
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SIL had a similar problem -- someone told her to contribute to IRA even though she had no earned income. She did it, I pointed out it wasn't allowed, and now we're working on removing it. Had to file this form w Schwab --

I'm giving you the link because it looks to me like you got two distributions, and a 1099 for the total. There wouldn't be a 1099 for the re-deposit -- it will look just like a contribution. If DW didn't have $3000 earned income, you need to take it out, and you have only until the due date of the return to do it. If the money was out for more than 60 days, you can't say it's a rollover, I believe. If you do this in the same year you withdrew it, you get a 1099 with code 8 -- correction of excess contribution. But you're trying to correct a withdrawal from last year, so you might get another code -- P, I think. But Schwab should certainly help you with correcting this.

Then, on your tax return, I think you do not include the amount in question as either a withdrawal or a contribution, but I think I'd add a statement on the "IRA taxable amount" line about what you're doing.

Don't forget you also have to withdraw all the income that was generated by the amount you are replacing. Schwab automatically will calculate that.
 
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I did not get a 5498, just a 1099.

You'll get the 5498 for 2020 in May 2021 (three months from now). Weird, I know, because it seems late, but that's when you'll get it. I think the timing has to do with the fact that contributions can be made for 2020 up until April 2021.

As long as your rollover was done within 60 days of the distribution *or* by August 31, 2020, then it should be handled under the CARES Act rules and should not show in 4b as taxable. The CPA should know this stuff.
 
Oh. Ok. Right. Like when I get the ones for our regular IRA accounts.

The accountant definitely made an error here. And I wrote him a note, gave him a copy of the letter plus the rollover confirmation! Geez....

And yes. I did roll it over before 8/31/20.

That’s why I hate dropping off taxes. I like to sit with an account while he does the return to avoid this kind of thing. I suspect he will see he has to do an addendum. I just signed the return today and he might have already submitted it.

So now, because we lived on cash last year we should have a negative gross income by several thousand dollars. How does that work in terms of a refund if any?

We already were supposed to get a few thousand back with the low income before this error.

This is all new to me since we are newly retired.
 
Yes, except rollovers will show up in box 2, instead of box 1 contributions.

Yes, the accountant made an error.

If it was submitted already, he should file an amended return on Form 1040-X, not an addendum. Since it was his error, I wouldn't pay him for it.

If you have a negative income, when you get to the taxable income (on line 15 this year) it will say "if zero or less, enter zero". If you have no other taxes that are due (like SE taxes), then you should get refunded to you any withholding plus any refundable credits (such as the recovery rebate credit, the EITC, the refundable portion of the CTC, and some others).

...

You didn't exactly ask for advice, but if you had done a Roth conversion last year, it probably would have been effectively federal income tax free because it would "sop up" any other negative income you had as well as any nonrefundable credits that you might have qualified for. If your situation is similar this year, it's something you might consider doing. (I personally do my Roth conversions in December once I know my tax situation and can see how much I can do at a low or no tax cost.)

Note that Roth conversions still are typically subject to state income taxes, and do affect AGI and everything that depends on AGI, like ACA subsidies and stimulus payments and FAFSA EFC effects. So there are still other things to consider, but I think they're still a good deal.
 
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My input: From my many years of working IT, Actuarial at a Financial Company....and take this for what it is worth. Literally, you had $6000 come out. Period. Those amounts came out of a equity account, so real amounts on real days, that caused the sale of real units of mutual funds/stocks to literally happen on the day of the request. So, the withdrawal amount was indeed $6000. There is a deposit amount of $3000, on another day buying real units of stocks or mutual funds. Who knows, that '2nd' $3000 when sold from your account, may have been when the market was high, and the $3000 then deposited, might have been when the market was low, hence, giving you an unforeseen 'advantage'. Of course, it could have been the other way, too...Bottom line, you had 2 withdrawals, that they by law have to do on the request date..and they can only 'undo' if there was a mistake...there was no mistake. She had legal right to ask for that money. You've now solved it for the future, by being the POA. So, just assume you made money off the sell and buy of that $3000, and that will hopefully pay the taxes that this 'uh oh' incurred. Schwabb did nothing wrong..and they can't make up a 1099...

I'm not sure I see the uncashed check as so clearly bring a distribution. But I do think it will not be corrected because of the issuer's process. They very likely do not view it as incorrect, as you point out.
 
I am not sure what you mean about box 2. Box 2a on the 1099 shows the $11,000 distribution. I only have a confirmation from the company showing it as a rollover.

I guess that’s what I meant. An amended return. No way will I pay him any extra. Like you said- his mistake not mine.

On the return right now we have a taxable income of $5000 on line 15 after the itemized deductions and so forth. We are scheduled for like $4300 on this return.

But now I am wondering since the income is wrong and it will be way less than zero by thousands how that affects our refund.

The Ira rollover was $11,000 (about $2500 of it had gone to taxes when it was first distributed and I netted the rest, but of course, I put the whole $11,000 back when I rolled it over).

We had to keep our income low this year due to ACA and my financial advisor told me to take $19,000 out of my Ira to add income so I would not fall into Medicaid. That’s what I assume should be the only amount showing on line 4b of the return but the accountant added in the $11,000. So it shows $30,000.

So that’s why no Roth conversions. (btw- no state income taxes here in NH).

I go on Medicare in June.

Thanks.
 
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I was referring to box 1 and box 2 of Form 5498 that you'll receive in three months, not the 1099-R you've already received.

I think the best thing for you to do is wait until the accountant fixes the return and see what happens to your refund.

Yes, sounds like the $19K IRA distribution should still show on 4b.
 
Yes, I second SecondCor521's approach:

"The CARES Act suspended all RMDs for 2020. Subsequent legislation allowed individuals who had already taken RMDs to redeposit those RMDs back into their IRAs by 8/31/2020. These redeposits would be treated as a rollover for tax purposes, with the additional benefit that the "rollovers" were not subject to the one rollover per 12 month period rule.

So if I were in OP's shoes, I would treat the second $3K as an RMD that was made in February then redeposited by 8/31. For tax purposes, then, the $6K would be reported as a distribution on the 1099-R, but the taxable amount should be reduced to $3K. If there is an option to indicate in the tax program you're using that the other $3K was a rollover, I would do that; the word "ROLLOVER" may show up on line 4b. You should end up with $6K on line 4a of the tax return and $3K on line 4b of the tax return (plus any other IRA distributions that you may have taken from your own IRAs, of course).

This would save you the uphill battle of trying to get a corrected 1099-R, which I doubt you'd be able to do. It also will perfectly match things up for the IRS....."
 
It's not just their reading of mail that is slow but the sending. DH brought me a letter from the IRS today. Now, we don't get many of those and we had recently filed our return so I was little anxious when I saw it. But .... we already got our refund so why a letter now.

Anyway, it was a letter telling me I had gotten the second stimulus payment in late 2020 (was it in December? don't remember) and telling me it wasn't taxable, etc. Nice info to have, of course (I already knew it but OK). But, it seemed a little late since this is the end of February (we filed our return 2/12).
 
I was referring to box 1 and box 2 of Form 5498 that you'll receive in three months, not the 1099-R you've already received.

I think the best thing for you to do is wait until the accountant fixes the return and see what happens to your refund.

Yes, sounds like the $19K IRA distribution should still show on 4b.


Thanks.

So yes. I called the accountant and explained and he was just leaving his office and said he would call me the next day after he checked into it. Never heard from him.

So I left a voice mail message later that evening and I sent an email so I would have it all in writing and then waited two days and called him again. He answered the phone said he was correcting it as we spoke on the phone. Said they would run a diagnostic and then I would get an encrypted email with the correction from his manager that afternoon at 1:00-1:15. Never got it. (At the time I wasn't sure if he was correcting the "yet to be submitted" return- or- if he already e -filed it- if he was doing an amended return.)

So the next day I called him again. He picked up the phone and apologized that I had to call him before he got to calling me first. (really?). Said his office has been crazy. Claimed he was holding it in his hand as we spoke. Said they already e-filed my return on Friday and would do an amended return at no cost to me (I should hope so!) and I would receive it via encrypted email after they run a diagnostic.


Later on this afternoon when I called about my ACA plan- see my other post down this thread- another accountant there who was doing my amended return said if I ever do this next time- roll over a RMD distribution- to ask the financial company to put in the correct code to show it was a rollover. I don't know what he is talking about. The only code I see on the 1099R is code 4 which = Death. I don't know that they could put on another code on that form since taxes were paid out of it. It wasn't like a regular roll over where you don't pay taxes on it.


Anyway-my first phone call today was at 10:30 this morning and still haven't received the amended return. I will give it until the end of the week and call again.

I am curious now as to what this does to my tax return. I assume I should at least be getting back the taxes I had to pay on the distribution when I took it back in March since when I rolled over the money in August I had to add the taxes back in.

Also- putting us at a negative income (0) I wonder what that does?

I'm sorry I even sent it back. In the past I used to take the distribution in June around my birthday (considering it a birthday from my deceased mom). This helped also to remind me to make sure I sold of some investments and had the money necessary for the RMD in the Money Market account.

Last year my financial advisor told me to take it early as it helped with planning. All his clients take it early in the year he said. Ok- so I changed it to March.If I had waited until June, I would have known about the Cares Act then and not taken the RMD in the first place.

I didn't see why this was even necessary. I mean- according to him, I ended up having to take an RMD from my Traditional IRA this year so as not to fall under the ACA poverty limit that would push me on Medicaid. And honestly, I am not sure I even had to do that because I will be going onto Medicare in June anyway and already have my ACA plan in place until then. So what would it even matter? They cannot put me retroactively on Medicaid. (I just applied for Medicare today to start June 1st).

Ironically, so now because of this amended return due to the rollover of the Inherited IRA, our income will be much lower for 2020 than the advisor projected anyhow. And before I sent it back I did ask him if I should do so! And I believe it does put me at the Medicaid level. But like I said, I don't see where it will matter anyhow, so all the planning was for not. Maybe I'm missing something.

I could have just kept that Inherited IRA money and took out a much smaller amount from my Traditional IRA. The advisor knew I would have to take money out of the IRA anyway. But honestly, to me it seems I shouldn't have taken any money out of either one of them.


Come to think of it maybe I could have done a Roth conversion because I am going on Medicare in a few months anyway, so why worry about the ACA plan?


Maybe this year 2021 I will do one, but I don't know. I like to keep things simple. I also have to worry about Medicare premium rates in regards to income.


*One more concern I have is right now the way the incorrect tax return that was already e filed stands, the adjusted gross income shows $31,000, which puts me above what I should have had for the subsidies I received. Was this factored into my taxes already? I am getting a refund of several thousand dollars.



Or- is this something I later would get a letter from the IRS asking for money back? Not sure how it works.


After the amended return our adjusted gross income will be $20,000 which puts me at Medicaid level.



This is why I am obsessing about this whole thing.



SMH......


PS I want to thank the OP for starting this thread. I almost did not read it and if I didn't I would have never realized this. So much for relying on a CPA. I learned a lesson. Check your returns even if having a so called professional preparing them.
 
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I have another question. I do not see where my accountant attached form 8962 with my return. Doesn't he need to do so since I received an 1095A for my ACA plan?


I received advanced premium payments and I believe those have to be reconciled in the return. The accountant was telling me some crazy thing like there is no mandate or something. I think he is confusing it with no mandate to indicate health insurance coverage on the tax return UNLESS you received advanced premium credits


Now I am really concerned about this accountant's work! If I am right, that is two big mistakes in this year's tax return!



I just finished sending him another email in regard to this.
 
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Yes, for a few reasons:

  • To see if they missed anything.
  • To learn a bit more about how taxes work.
  • Because you are responsible for it, just ask Al Capone :LOL:




I have actually always done our tax returns but decided the past two years to have an accountant do them.
 
I have another question. I do not see where my accountant attached form 8962 with my return. Doesn't he need to do so since I received an 1095A for my ACA plan?

Yes, if you received a Form 1095A, then Form 8962 should have been completed and attached to your tax return.
 
This is what I thought. How could a CPA not know this?

I don't know.

It's pretty clear from your posts that you are not happy with your CPA. I'd suggest finding a new one. There are good ones out there.
 
I don't know.

It's pretty clear from your posts that you are not happy with your CPA. I'd suggest finding a new one. There are good ones out there.

Well, right. I need to get this resolved and then next year I might have to either do them myself or look elsewhere.

The point of hiring a CPA to me is so I don’t have to deal with this stuff. I guess I’m wrong.
 
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