Another one of those articles

[donheff]

The evil bank should have written off the mortgage as a bad debt and delivered title to the family free and clear.

So you get into financial difficulties (for whatever reason), you get a "free home"?

Not that I want to defend his sentiment but I think youbet forgot that sarcasm has been outlawed on these forums.

 

[TromboneAl]

Sure we don't know the whole story, and we're being judgmental, but many of us see people who make tons of dough, yet find ways to smugly waste it on toys and McMansions and live paycheck to paycheck. So we should be forgiven if we enjoy pointing out possible poetic justice.

Also, remember that having four kids is a choice, and probably the most extravagant choice that they made.

 

[haha]

Sure we don't know the whole story, and we're being judgmental, but many of us see people who make tons of dough, yet find ways to smugly waste it on toys and McMansions and live paycheck to paycheck. So we should be forgiven if we enjoy pointing out possible poetic justice.

Also, remember that having four kids is a choice, and probably the most extravagant choice that they made.

Also a choice that the rest of us who are not having the 2.2 kids necessary to replace the population should be thankful for.

 

[wildcat]

Another knock on the journalism - the title says 'formerly wealthy'

What made them wealthy? They had a big house and nice cars? Pfft....

I've been through rough spots (nothing like these people) and know what it's like to struggle a bit. Sometimes you get burned and it teaches you to never be in that position again. I guess, thankfully, it happened to me early so I've been able to recover. A full financial recovery probably won't be the case for the people profiled.

 

[traineeinvestor]

Sure we don't know the whole story, and we're being judgmental, but many of us see people who make tons of dough, yet find ways to smugly waste it on toys and McMansions and live paycheck to paycheck. So we should be forgiven if we enjoy pointing out possible poetic justice.

Also, remember that having four kids is a choice, and probably the most extravagant choice that they made.

+1

Even on a (low?) six figure salary, putting four children though private schooling is going to be a severe drain on finances. It would be interesting to see how the children are doing in several years time once they have become independent.

Time for a mandatory savings regime?

 

[FIRE'd@51]

Trying not to be too judgmental, and speaking in strictly financial terms, were they ever really wealthy?

Exactly what I was thinking. Baschoff was already in his fifties and only living in a 300K house (at the top of the real estate market) in New Jersey. He then got a promotion to a "six-figure job". What does that mean? Maybe he was earning a little over 100K.

 

[FIRE'd@51]

Almost all in Cleveland metro who want their kids to have a decent education put them in private schools.

Not sure what Cleveland metro has to do with this. The article said he was living in a New Jersey suburb of Philadelphia.

 

[youbet]

So we should be forgiven if we enjoy pointing out possible poetic justice.
.

No we shouldn't. If you choose to be judgmental without knowing the whole story (your words) be proud of it and stand up for your actions and words. Don't do it and then beg for forgiveness.

 

[HFWR]

No we shouldn't. If you choose to be judgmental without knowing the whole story (your words) be proud of it and stand up for your actions and words. Don't do it and then beg for forgiveness.

Loudon Wainwright- Mr Guilty - YouTube

 

[Rustward]

Exactly what I was thinking. Baschoff was already in his fifties and only living in a 300K house (at the top of the real estate market) in New Jersey. He then got a promotion to a "six-figure job". What does that mean? Maybe he was earning a little over 100K.

Good points . . . and . . . they spent it all every month.

 

[youbet]

Loudon Wainwright- Mr Guilty - YouTube

Thanks HFWR! Loudon is one of my favorite singer-songwriters. He and John Prine are absolutely the best! DW and I catch their concerts everytime they come through the Chicago area, which sadly hasn't been too often lately.

And regarding my comment to TAL....... Yep, if ya do the deed, step right up and take credit. Skip the whining for forgiveness or justification. Life is so much simpler when painted in black and white!

 

[brewer12345]

Seems like Baschoff took a big gamble at the absolute worst time and got caught out. Sad. Sure, he did not make the greatest choices (should have sold the house instead of renting it) and he should have saved more before taking that kind of risk, but I think most Americans do not spend a lot of time plumbing the downside of whatever they do. Hopefully the publicity in the article helps him.

 

[jkern]

The article doesn't state enough information to judge all of their decision making. I'm sure most of us would have been more conservative.

However, I think the message in the article is that you can seamingly do everything right (education, work history, well paying job, etc..) but in this job market be sent back to square one. A person can have a $200K education, $100K of continuing education, 25 to 30 years of experience and be laid off at 56 years old and never find a comparable job in their field again. That is the sad part of the US job market and economy.

 

[Texas Proud]

The article doesn't state enough information to judge all of their decision making. I'm sure most of us would have been more conservative.

However, I think the message in the article is that you can seamingly do everything right (education, work history, well paying job, etc..) but in this job market be sent back to square one. A person can have a $200K education, $100K of continuing education, 25 to 30 years of experience and be laid off at 56 years old and never find a comparable job in their field again. That is the sad part of the US job market and economy.

Yes... my sister was 53 when laid off and could not find a job.... she was a compter programmer and he skills were 'dated'... most places would rather hire a 20 or 30yo even if they are not better...

 

[TromboneAl]

However, I think the message in the article is that you can seemingly do everything right (education, work history, well paying job, etc..) but in this job market be sent back to square one.

Yes, that may have been the message that the article intended to convey, but the message many of us cheapskates are getting is that if you don't live below your means and save your money, you won't be prepared for a financial disaster.

And based on the outcome, he didn't do everything right. He had four kids, sent them to private school, didn't save more than two month's income in the 30 years he was working, and drove a gas-guzzling SUV.

 

[ziggy29]

I cannot understand why any sentient person, in this economy, would not keep at least a couple of years' expenses in the emergency fund. With unemployment compensation and LBYM, this could last 3-4 years.

We're up to 2.5 years stashed away -- before any unemployment or severance -- and it still doesn't feel like enough.

 

[tmm99]

We're up to 2.5 years stashed away -- before any unemployment or severance -- and it still doesn't feel like enough.

It's true that these guys didn't save enough. They should have been saving more, BUT, if you are laid off before your time and cannot find a job for 3 years, yeah, it is going to affect just about anybody.

I am 53, and not ready for retirement yet for another decade (hopefully sooner). I have enough money stashed that I could last5 years or maybe even 6 years if I got laid off and couldn't find a job (I would have to liquidate everything except for the retirement funds like 401K & IRA), but then what? By then, I would be 57-58 years old with no job experience for 4-5 years, so finding a decent paying job at that point, I imagine would be pretty slim. It didn't say if they spent their bankruptcy sheltered retirement funds, but if I didn't touch the retirement funds, I would be in the same boat as they after a while (minus the kids.)

I know it wasn't luck that enabled you to retire early, but it sure helped with better economy which enabled you to keep your job until you accumulated enough money.

Despite that I feel they should have been more frugal, I feel for people who happen to be working in the industry that got hit hard by this downturn. I'm sure some of these people were savers. I have a feeilng if they cannot find another job, those savers are hurting too.

 

[nvestysly]

It's All About The Choices Made...

...and cumulatively it appears these people made choices that did not work in their favor. There are lots of hard-luck stories in the news and I have some in my own circle of family and friends. But most of the issues seem to center around the poor financial choices people make during their lives.

Any one of us could find ourselves in a bad financial situation at some point (past, present, future) in our lives. Many of us have likely experienced some sort of setback that caused financial difficulty/uncertainty. I'd guess that many of this forum worked their way through it.

DW and I recently discussed this topic after seeing/hearing/reading about the census numbers that show an increase in poverty. I know, I know, that's another subject. But it's related - I'm a believer that people make their own luck. The choices you make put you into positions that allow you to capitalize on the good things and minimize the bad situations. That does not mean that nothing bad ever happens - you simply keep the bad to a minimum and work to maximize the good.

I am very much in favor of private schools. However, I also know that you adjust one financial area of your life in order to achieve another. I know several people who send/sent their children to private schools and they still managed to retire early. In one case the spouse is school teacher. In the second case the spouse did not work at all. In both cases the primary breadwinners made a good salary but they were not SVP's or anything of the sort. They made choices that allowed them to capitalize on good financial situations and they did their best to minimize exposure to the bad financial situations.

 

[mh]

Yes... my sister was 53 when laid off and could not find a job.... she was a compter programmer and he skills were 'dated'... most places would rather hire a 20 or 30yo even if they are not better...

I do programming also and long ago came to the conclusion that I should assume that by 50 it was not at all unlikely i could end up jobless. Tech companies don't want to hire software people in their 50's for a variety of reasons.

Although ER was a plan for me back then, I also figured it might also be someone else's plan for me at some point. I'm 51 now , and they seem keen on keeping me but i wonder what the result would be if tried to hire on there now. I'm thankful that it is likely to be me doing the deciding at this point.

 

[Rustward]

And based on the outcome, he didn't do everything right. He had four kids, sent them to private school, didn't save more than two month's income in the 30 years he was working, and drove a gas-guzzling SUV.

. . . exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Brat]

He didn't think out of the box either. Bright guy, why not home school his kids? Develop a strong curriculum, save money on tuition. Make this time a great adventure while saving a chunk of cash.

I know of families who bought a boat and text books and set sail. I don't recommend that but there is a lot that isn't taught in school that educated parents can provide. I recall taking our children to DC and walking though the art museums while pointing out the difference between art before and after the advent of photography. We talked about the role of the artist and their patrons in society as well as composition, prospective and even the chemistry of pigments. There is so much to be learned outside the classroom.

 

[ESRwannabe]

A middle class family does not need private schools in the US. The working parents may need to commute but there are school systems just about everywhere that are adequate.

Reading between the lines tells me that perhaps the better way to phrase it is that: "If you want your kids to be physically safe in that location, then you will have to send them to a private school or home school them."

 

[ESRwannabe]

We're up to 2.5 years stashed away -- before any unemployment or severance -- and it still doesn't feel like enough.

The conclusion I came to after spending a good deal of time thinking about my "emergency fund" is that cash is just not good enough. Even if you have a few years of living expenses in cash, it isn't enough.

What I do is save more money than most people. I save for retirement and then I save additional money in a taxable account specifically for creating an income stream from stock dividends.

My stock dividends throw off enough to cover about three months of living expenses every year. A bonus to doing this is that once I get this income stream up to covering 12+ months of living expenses... well then I can retire early.

 

[eridanus]

Despite that I feel they should have been more frugal, I feel for people who happen to be working in the industry that got hit hard by this downturn. I'm sure some of these people were savers. I have a feeilng if they cannot find another job, those savers are hurting too.

Yep. It's so happy that we all belong to a forum where everyone is an economic automaton, no one's industry takes a multi-year beating, and getting cancer is brushed off like lint on a collar. "Breast cancer? Pshaw. That only forces people off a job if they're unprepared."

 

[Brat]

I may be diverting this discussion a bit but how many of you caught the interview of Michael Lewis today? My DD, who has booked him, opined many months ago that he is a great book salesman... But...

In his opinion too big to fail is still alive and well and that the European bond exposure may bring us again to facing financial Armageddon and tax payers bailing out Wall Street.