Any New Alternatives to Quicken?

[Gotadimple]

I am looking to replace MS Money due to its discontinuation. I only use its Portfolio Manager feature to "mark to market" my stocks and MF positions (my wife tracks all expenses and billings with her own system).

The program has been popping up messages seducing me to switch to Quicken. But T-Al is upset with it, and wants something else.

Just now, looking at the link Gotadimple provided, its chart says that Quicken does not have Portfolio Manager.

That's correct, the basic version of Quicken doesn't have Portfolio Manager, but it's available in the Premier version (or whatever they call the $60 one).

-- Rita

 

[easysurfer]

I used to use Quicken to handle all my tasks (checkbook balancing, portfolio tracking, net worth totals, etc.). But after finding that I spent too much time getting Quicken to do everything for me, I decided it was better to not use it anymore and meet my tasks in different ways. I do most of my investing with Vanguard, so I just wait for their quarterly and annual statements. From these statements, I enter those totals and the totals from a few investments outside of Vanguard in a spreadsheet. From the spreadsheet, I tally my asset allocations and such. To replace the budgeting I used to do with Quicken, I use a simple budeting program. To balance my checkbook, I use the old fashion print out my bank statement, and use a pencil and calculator. I know my method isn't the prettiest, but it gets the job done for me.

 

[TromboneAl]

From these statements, I enter those totals and the totals from a few investments outside of Vanguard in a spreadsheet. From the spreadsheet, I tally my asset allocations and such.

But Vanguard will do all of this for you. You can enter your outside investments on the Vanguard web site.

 

[easysurfer]

That is good to know. thx. I haven't used that part much of Vanguard online. For the outside investments, would it allow for entering things like US Savings bonds totals? I have some of these from when I used to w*rk. That's some of the stuff I include on the spreadsheet.

 

[ERD50]

I've never tracked expenses with the detail many of you do. I save that effort for the income and portfolio performance side of things. But I'd like to try it for 2010.

Please let us know how that works for you. I'm in a similar boat - I don't track expenses at the detail level of many here. It seems like an important thing to do, but I wonder what I would gain from it?

I don't over spend, as I only have so much $ transferred into my checking account each month. My 'cushion' never runs down w/o me knowing ahead of time that I have some big expenses (remodeling, repairs, etc) were hitting it. And like most LBYMers, I look for value in what I buy. So what exactly would I learn if I broke out (for example) the gasoline bills from my CC statements? I drive cars with pretty good mpg, combine trips, etc. I just don't see where knowing it would change my behavior.

OK, another example - dining out, or entertainment. I don't add it up, but I would not want to cut back, because we enjoy whatever amount we do (which doesn't seem like all that much). Or "honey, do you realize how much milk we buy each month?"? I do watch utility bills and car mpg just as an early warning of maintenance or problems.

I guess what I'm saying is, I just can't imagine that after I detailed out a budget, that I would suddenly learn that "Oh wow! I spend $X on such-and-such, so I'm gonna cut way back on that!"? I'm pretty sure I do that with *every* purchase. I do look at big budget, easily identifiable items, was kinda surprised when I added up all the various insurance costs for the year (cars, house, umbrella) - but I'm not going to drop any of those.

To put it another way - for those who do keep detailed budgets, what positives came from it?

-ERD50

 

[TromboneAl]

To put it another way - for those who do keep detailed budgets, what positives came from it?

Here are some examples:

"Oh, wow, I've been trying to cut back on X, but I see now that that only saves me an insignificant amount, so I'll stop cutting back on that."

Or "I've been spending X per year on college expenses, so next year when DD has graduated, I'll need less and can lower my equity exposure."

I spent $10,000 more last year, but I see that it was only because of the unexpected medical procedure.

We love eating out, but I didn't realize how much we are spending on it. I'd rather cut back, and spend that money on cable TV.

Why am I wasting my time washing baggies, when health insurance premiums are my main expense?

 

[easysurfer]

Similar to what TromboneAl said, one big advantage is that having a detailed budget allows one to make choices and prioritize what buget categories we put our money towards. Also, to see the spending trends. Without a budget, there's no way for sure to know how much we spent on what.

For example, do I want to dine out every month or buy that new TV I've been thinking of? Since I can't do both.

 

[ERD50]

Thanks for the replies, a few comments...

Here are some examples:

"Oh, wow, I've been trying to cut back on X, but I see now that that only saves me an insignificant amount, so I'll stop cutting back on that."

OK, kind of the opposite way to look at it from the normal view, but just as valuable. I guess I tend to look at this on a case by case basis - when I find myself fretting or taking action on something, I'll calculate the cost of that item that I was wondering about. For example, a bunch of outside lights (mostly CFLs) on a timer - ends up less than $2/month. Move on.

I spent $10,000 more last year, but I see that it was only because of the unexpected medical procedure.

We love eating out, but I didn't realize how much we are spending on it. I'd rather cut back, and spend that money on cable TV.

I do track (or at least see) my total cash flow. So if I see that my check account buffer is dwindling, it would cause me to look into it.

Why am I wasting my time washing baggies, when health insurance premiums are my main expense?

Similar to above, but an important distinction. If I have taken steps to get the best value from my Health Insurance (or any big ticket item), then there is nothing more to do there. But if washing baggies (or other small cost savings) actually provides a savings, then it helps (in a small way). This actually relates to one of those (ahhh, can't think of the proper name) economic conundrums that people face. A $10 savings is a $10 savings. It makes no difference if it was a $10 savings on a $20 expenditure or a $5,000 expenditure. At the end of the year, there is an extra $10 in your pocket.

For example, do I want to dine out every month or buy that new TV I've been thinking of, since I can't do both and max out every other category?

Yes, and this seems to be met by my being aware of my total cash flow.

So, I guess it comes down to is:

A) Monitoring at a high level overview (monthly cash flow), and jumping on "problem areas", along with some occasional "auditing" of specific expenditures

versus

B) Monitoring everything all the time?

I'll make a car analogy - would I want to continuously see every sensor reading that goes into my cars computer, or just respond when the "Check Engine" light comes on? Along with regular check ups to monitor key systems?

Different strokes for different folks an all, I'm just not getting the motivation to dig into the nitty-gritty like some do. Maybe because if I did, I would think I would need to take it all the way to really get any value out of it. A $300 bill at Costco tells me nothing - I'd need to break that receipt down to food, occasional clothing, tools, (where do you put things like Toilet Paper?), cleaning supplies, liquor, entertainment, whew..... At that point, I don't think I could see the forest for the trees?

-ERD50

 

[easysurfer]

A couple of more thoughts...I keep track and do the analysis out of necessity since FIRE'd and not for fun (though, the exercise is enlightening). I remember, while I was still working, not on a budget I bought a whole new furniture set. But at that time, since I had a salary coming in, my mindset was, "no biggy, my paycheck would pay for the furniture". Since that isn't the case anymore, the tracking and bugeting keeps myself honest that when I spend goes to what I prioritize to spend on. Not as sponatneous as the furniture purchase, but that is a well-worth trade off in my mind to enjoy being retired.

About the breakdown of receipts. For me, yes, I do break that down if I go to the store and buy several things. In the case of toliet paper though, for me I count that as "Groceries and Supplies" and lump those together. On the otherhand, if while shopping, for example, if I happened to pick up a gift card, or bought OTC cough medicine, on my budget I would separate them as "Gift" and "OTC medicine". I do fudge a little and do some rounding -- I won't drive myself nuts recalculating taxes for each item, for example.

I guess in a nutshell, for me the tracking keeps me honest and is the roadmap on my spending to make sure I'm on course. Yeah, it can tedious sometimes, but I'd much rather be at home tracking my spending than in a conference room thinking "and why am I in this conference call?"

 

[ERD50]

A couple of more thoughts...I keep track and do the analysis out of necessity since FIRE'd and not for fun (though, the exercise is enlightening). I remember, while I was still working, not on a budget I bought a whole new furniture set. But at that time, since I had a salary coming in, my mindset was, "no biggy, my paycheck would pay for the furniture". Since that isn't the case anymore, ...

I guess that is why it works (more or less) for me - I get a "pseudo-paycheck" each month. I have an automatic transfer from my taxable investment account to my checking account each month. Since I anticipated similar costs pre/post-retirement, I set the amount about equal to my take-home pay. That seemed to be all the "budgeting" I needed when I worked, and it seems to be working for me in retirement. I only said "more or less" earlier, as I am am still trying to figure if the detailed level budget would improve things for me or not.

Yeah, it can tedious sometimes, but I'd much rather be at home tracking my spending than in a conference room thinking "and why am I in this conference call?"

No argument there! Well, other than sometimes you can catch a nap during a conference call (BTDT!) . But at this point, the choice isn't between the conf call and a spreadsheet, I have better options (If I haven't said it in a while - it is GREAT to be retired!!!)

-ERD50

 

[haha]

I finally read the MS Money info about ending of support.

Looks like the only thing that I use that will be impacted is automatic background data importing from banks.

No biggie there, the program will continue to import data that you import directly from the bank webpage. The banks will likely stop supporting the MS Money file type, but as I remember Money can import comma delimited files.

So this gives a bit of time before acting or learning another program, if indeed that ever becomes necessary.

Ha

 

[TromboneAl]

Note also that if your application works well, there's very little additional effort in tracking everything. That is, once you tell it that Denny's is a restaurant, and Chevron sells gas, things are pretty automatic.

 

[youbet]

Please let us know how that works for you................. To put it another way - for those who do keep detailed budgets, what positives came from it?

-ERD50

I'm not expecting any big money saving breakthroughs. My current "view from 10,000 ft" keeps me well aware of the bulk of our expenditures.

All our income sources are laundered through our joint checking account. My SS and DW's pension are direct deposited. An occasional check written on the RE portfolio MM acct supplements those. So the info is there in the check register if I want to do a deep dive. Of course the biggest check every month is to Visa. But my Visa provider has nice tools for sorting expenses on their web site. Cash is another issue. We do go through 3 or 4 hundred bux a month but I think we have a reasonable understanding where that is going.

Still, despite the anticipated aggravation of pulling out a little notebook and recording the three Guinness I just enjoyed at the pub, I'm curious to try detailed tracking for a year. Maybe I'm just enjoying myself too much and want some added menial chore to tone down the fun?

 

[sailor]

To put it another way - for those who do keep detailed budgets, what positives came from it?
-ERD50

It helps DW limit her spending when she sees red

 

[Texas Proud]

But Vanguard will do all of this for you. You can enter your outside investments on the Vanguard web site.

TAl.... from what I can see, the Vanguard sites does NOT use your outside investments when it calculates investment returns...

 

[ERD50]

It helps DW limit her spending when she sees red

Nah, *my* DW would say "Time to go back to work, dear?"

I *am* just kidding, she's generally pretty conservative with spending. I sometimes have to push her to spend a bit more on this or that. Other areas, not so much. But overall, [-]no[/-] few complaints .

I'm not expecting any big money saving breakthroughs. My current "view from 10,000 ft" keeps me well aware of the bulk of our expenditures.

All our income sources are laundered through our joint checking account. My SS and DW's pension are direct deposited. An occasional check written on the RE portfolio MM acct supplements those. So the info is there in the check register if I want to do a deep dive. Of course the biggest check every month is to Visa. But my Visa provider has nice tools for sorting expenses on their web site. Cash is another issue. We do go through 3 or 4 hundred bux a month but I think we have a reasonable understanding where that is going.

Still, despite the anticipated aggravation of pulling out a little notebook and recording the three Guinness I just enjoyed at the pub, I'm curious to try detailed tracking for a year. Maybe I'm just enjoying myself too much and want some added menial chore to tone down the fun?

We're pretty much in sync then. Difference is I rarely use cash at all, I use the card for everything I can. When I use cash for a sub $10 purchase, I regret it 'cause then I have a pocket full of change that will sit forever. The occasional dinner out where I put it all on the card and the other party pays me in cash seems to keep me away from the ATM for 6 months or more.

I can sort my charges on my CC, but that still leaves me in pretty non-specific categories. Our biggest routine bill like that is Costco, but it's not all food. So unless my CC can break down the actual receipt categories, I just don't see enough value in it.


Or maybe I'm just not enjoying myself so much that I feel the need to tone down the fun? Hmmm, tax time approaches - that's more than enough "tone down the fun" for me!


-ERD50

 

[youbet]

. Difference is I rarely use cash at all, I use the card for everything I can.

We were doing that too. Then we read an article that showed that much credit card fraud comes from using your card at small venues where the clerk/waitress-waiter/sales person takes your card away and brings it and a receipt for your signature back to you. They have the opportunity to copy all the info down out of your sight. So, since I'm not a bit intimidated by having a small roll of tens and twenties in my pocket, I just started using cash at pubs, some restaurants, small shops using manual imprinters, vendors at craft fairs, etc. But, no big deal either way. The amount of risk I'm avoiding is probably small. The benefits I'm losing out on, inconsequential.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Why am I wasting my time washing baggies, when health insurance premiums are my main expense?

BINGO! (Al, meet you in Mexico?)

 

[Telly]

We were doing that too. Then we read an article that showed that much credit card fraud comes from using your card at small venues where the clerk/waitress-waiter/sales person takes your card away and brings it and a receipt for your signature back to you. They have the opportunity to copy all the info down out of your sight. So, since I'm not a bit intimidated by having a small roll of tens and twenties in my pocket, I just started using cash at pubs, some restaurants, small shops using manual imprinters, vendors at craft fairs, etc. But, no big deal either way. The amount of risk I'm avoiding is probably small. The benefits I'm losing out on, inconsequential.

That reminds me of an incident that I had. A Friday night, busy restaurant, after we finished a wedding rehearsal dinner. An employee comes up to my table, with the big bill in the small folder. Not the waiter. I look over the bill, he waits there. I pull out my credit card, and right away he takes it and the bill and starts to head off. This is while I'm saying "where the credit card goes, I go!" So I'm following him. Left right left, here and there. He seems aimless, but fast. But with my CC ahead of me, I'm fast too! Very suspicious. He's trying to shake me. I'm thinking he is looking for a place to pull a little reader out of his pocket and do a quick skim of it. Not while I'm on him, he ain't!

His way is blocked by customers just as we get next to the double doors from the kitchen. He quickly turns, looking at the doors. Suddenly, the door bursts open and a guy walks out with great authority, probably the manager. He see's the guy stopped right in front of him, and says "what are you doing?" The guy mumbles something... the manager glares at him, not understanding what he said. I said he's got the bill and my CC. The manager says to the guy, with a "you're an idiot" voice to him "take it over to the cashier!!!" So the guy does a hard right and over to the cashier, where he hands it all off and is gone just like that.

I figure it was a busboy trying to pull a quick skim, thought he saw an opportunity. No proof of course, but I would have liked to have emptied his pockets.

 

[Sowhatdoidonow]

Not really a quicken alternative but I use Fidelity's Fullview to categorize expenses and maintain a budget. The probably I always had with quicken is that it would get out of sync with all the online investing. Since I am categorizing everthing online there nothing to get out of sync. Has all the reports I need, net worth, budget versus actual etc.. It also includes all my other accounts (ie. Vanguard and BB&T bank and lets me categorize everything in those to. Just an alternative that I like.