Anyone know a brokerage named Navellier?

[Orchidflower]

Navellier - Company History

I know someone who used them and spoke highly about them, but I have no clue who they are. Just wondered if anyone here used or uses them now?
And any opinions on them?

He told me that their newsletter was a tremendous help when he was in the learning process, and that's all I know. Just investigating them now.

 

[FUEGO]

I have gone to the guy's presentation before and spoke to him for a couple minutes afterward (for my job). Seems like a slick talker. Active money manager, probably steep fees. Seems to be really good at marketing. No idea what his actual track record is, although I think the marketing literature indicates he beats all the averages by 3% a year or something. My contra-indicator boss loves him, therefore I would avoid like the plague. Caveat emptor as always.

 

[FinanceDude]

Navellier - Company History

I know someone who used them and spoke highly about them, but I have no clue who they are. Just wondered if anyone here used or uses them now?
And any opinions on them?

He told me that their newsletter was a tremendous help when he was in the learning process, and that's all I know. Just investigating them now.

Like most newsletter writers, they make a lot MORE off selling their newsletters than what their readers make off their recommendations. Navallier has some good ideas here and there, but he's not the cornucopia of wisdom, nor is anyone else.........

 

[FUEGO]

Like most newsletter writers, they make a lot MORE off selling their newsletters than what their readers make off their recommendations. Navallier has some good ideas here and there, but he's not the cornucopia of wisdom, nor is anyone else.........

Come to think of it, I believe that was what my contra-indicator boss had with this guy - a newsletter subscription. Probably $499 or $999 IIRC depending on whether you were "platinum" or "super elite platinum" or whatever. The contra-indicator boss would quote chapter and verse from the Nav's newsletter however it often sounded like my astrological reading (vague, wishy-washy, non-commital as to timing or security/industry selection).

 

[FinanceDude]

Come to think of it, I believe that was what my contra-indicator boss had with this guy - a newsletter subscription. Probably $499 or $999 IIRC depending on whether you were "platinum" or "super elite platinum" or whatever. The contra-indicator boss would quote chapter and verse from the Nav's newsletter however it often sounded like my astrological reading (vague, wishy-washy, non-commital as to timing or security/industry selection).

Those newsletter guys create evangelists with some of their clients, that's for sure. Most newsletter guy's material is not worth the paper its written on......

I still get propoganda from Ken Fisher, for the last 10 years........

 

[FUEGO]

Those newsletter guys create evangelists with some of their clients, that's for sure. Most newsletter guy's material is not worth the paper its written on......

I still get propoganda from Ken Fisher, for the last 10 years........

Yes, that is another one I had to contend with. I sit on the management committee for our company's very low seven figure retirement plan assets. The contra-indicator boss kept trying to get us to go with Fisher investments. We even had a snake oil salesman from Fisher Investments come in and glad-hand us. Unfortunately he couldn't answer basic questions regarding their portfolios and investment strategies, couldn't leave any of the laminated sales literature from his sales notebook with us, and couldn't explain a number of basic concepts that I quizzed him on. Good slick salesman, not so good at investment management. They did lead us to believe they could outperform the markets by 3-7% with less downside risk using a proprietary system that they could not explain to us.

I succeeded in my job as wool-remover from the contra-indicator boss's eyes and probably saved our employees beaucoup dollars.

Surprisingly no offers to purchase fractional shares of any NY bridges were made during the sales visit.

 

[Orchidflower]

Yeah, this person I know swears he went with them knowing zip, and spent a few years with his hand being held by them for his investments after having been royally taken by a manager before. Now he has studied and read with this company, and is making 15% on his investments. Sounded good, but....I check alot anymore.
I'm naturally leery of anyone in sales having been there myself. Known too many skim-scan, flim-flam salespeople I guess.

Wow, Fuego, that's pretty bad!!!! He must have been really new, and why in the world would the company send him out by himself then? In sales that's usually called "slapping some sh*t against the wall, and hoping some of it sticks."
Total lack of caring about you on the company's part: big red flag...big.

 

[ls99]

Now he has studied and read with this company, and is making 15% on his investments. Sounded good, but....
I'm naturally leery of anyone in sales having been there myself. Known too many skim-scan, flim-flam salespeople I guess.

Being a strictly non-financial type, isn't that in the same percentage range of Madoff enterprises payout?

 

[FUEGO]

Yeah, this person I know swears he went with them knowing zip, and spent a few years with his hand being held by them for his investments after having been royally taken by a manager before. Now he has studied and read with this company, and is making 15% on his investments. Sounded good, but....
I'm naturally leery of anyone in sales having been there myself. Known too many skim-scan, flim-flam salespeople I guess.

If he only made 15% this year, he's getting screwed big time. The major US and international broad indexes are up 27-37% year to date. If he made 15% last year then he (or his money manager) is either lucky or an investing genius.

In reality, I would guess 80% of the individual investors out there haven't accurately calculated their portfolio performance results. Just look at the quarterly poll results here where people exclude all kinds of things, get the math wrong, ignore contributions, withdrawals, etc. Does this guy you know getting the 15% returns know enough to know what he's actually earning?

 

[FUEGO]

Wow, Fuego, that's pretty bad!!!! He must have been really new, and why in the world would the company send him out by himself then? In sales that's usually called "slapping some sh*t against the wall, and hoping some of it sticks."
Total lack of caring about you on the company's part: big red flag...big.

I think the guy was used to marketing to high net worth individuals and corporate entities. I think the account mins were $1,000,000 or maybe $750,000. Doctors, lawyers, business execs, small pension plans, small foundations, etc. In other words, investment newbies in general. Not ignorant people, just busy people that don't really pay a lot of attention to investment management. They are good at what they do, which isn't investing. These folks subscribe to Money, Forbes etc, and probably pick mutual funds or stocks from the 10 Hottest Funds/Stocks for 2010 type of lists and maybe watch a little CNBC or Mad Money, but that is the extent of investment acumen (and that stuff is better for financial small talk at cocktail parties than actual investing).

There may be 5 or 10 out of a hundred folks that could pick apart this sales guys BS, but in general if you just listened to the sales pitch, it seemed golden. "Proprietary asset allocation model", "risk mitigation protocols", "active persistent management and oversight", "effective timely communication" blah blah blah.

 

[travelover]

If I knew how to make a guaranteed 15% year in and year out, I sure as heck wouldn't waste my time writing a newsletter.

 

[Orchidflower]

Fuego: Sounds like what I used to call it in sales "baffling them with your bullsh*t."
Alot of sales types do the technical jargon and buzz words of their industry intentionally to make themselves sound "professional." People are usually waaaaay too embarrassed to admit they have no idea what the guy/gal is saying, and won't ask. And the salesperson is counting on that, too. Blow their cool away and ask them to tone it down so you can understand.
I can't tell you how many times I've worked next to guys doing that...ridiculous. And, in their fantasy world, they actually think this makes them sound important I think. I think it's totally stupid myself, and can remember snickering under my breath at more than one who did this to clients as I knew what they were trying to do.


I think when my friend was talking about 15% he meant overall each and every year.

And I think Madoff offered a 10-12% guaranteed every year--even in years when the market took a dive, which is why everyone thought he was a "genius." He made it just high enough that people were happy, but not so high that people questioned is what I gathered from some of the books on him I read.