Are your neighbors ignoring the stay at home orders?

[REWahoo]

My neighbor, the one who's out and about even though he's 60+ and has COPD, had 4 cars/trucks and a U-Haul parked outside the house this AM. Stuff was being moved in, not out and I think the others were his adult kids and -yes- small grandchildren running in and out. I noticed an older guy- maybe the elderly Dad of one of the couple- as well.

Why don't people get it?

^ Sounds like they probably will.

 

[timo2]

M
This seems to be an issue with spring fever. Unnecessary trips to the big hardware stores. I'm hearing this is going on pretty much everywhere.

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Yes. In our State next week we will have new rules for the big box stores. Only a certain number of people in at once, one direction isles, various other things like that. The rules come out next week so I don't know them exactly. The Governor said too many people were congregating in the big box stores.

I saw that over in Texas, in Dallas, Walmart was putting in similar rules "Beginning Saturday, Walmart will limit the number of people in its stores, create one-way aisles and designate enter and exit doors. The world’s largest retailer is also asking you to leave the family at home as it puts in place new rules to emphasize social distancing." https://www.pjstar.com/news/20200403/know-new-coronavirus-rules-at-walmart-target-and-home-depot

 

[Walt34]

Even with the lockdown there are still folks at Lowe’s buying supplies for home projects. I don’t get it.

Oh I get it. I've been sorely tempted myself to go to either Lowes or HD, and I'm in the high-risk group being 70 and with cardiac issues. A lot of stuff can be done online, and I've done that, but some things require a physical presence because you just have to fit things together. So far I've simply done without.

And the folks buying stuff? It's easy to rationalize - "I'm only going to be there 45 minutes or so, and then for the next three days I've got something to do at home". See how easy that is?

 

[Ready]

And the folks buying stuff? It's easy to rationalize - "I'm only going to be there 45 minutes or so, and then for the next three days I've got something to do at home". See how easy that is?

Not to mention the rationale “Well if it’s open it must be OK to go there. Otherwise why wouldn’t they close it?”

 

[RobbieB]

Essential business. Plumbers and electricians are on call and the DIY'ers need a place to get stuff to fix their homes when needed.

 

[Walt34]

Essential business. Plumbers and electricians are on call and the DIY'ers need a place to get stuff to fix their homes when needed.

There is that too, all the normal maintenance issues don't suddenly go away just because of some virus. And if I need a new thermocouple to get the furnace running again I'm not going to wait three days for it to get here. I'm gonna go down to the big box store and buy one that day.

 

[Al in Ohio]

People walk in the parks but maintain a minimum of 6 feet distance. The only exception is when passing, and that lasts only a few seconds which is usually not enough to infect another person. The parks may be busy, but they are far from crowded. Playground equipment is off limits.

Overall people are taking the advice to avoid contact very seriously in my area.

Passing inside the 6 ft zone for only a few seconds is not safe. Both parties need to move aside at least 6-10 ft apart. If running and exhaling more vigorously it’s recommended to be 27 ft away! Hence in Ohio running trails are now w starting to close.

 

[Hamlet]

There is that too, all the normal maintenance issues don't suddenly go away just because of some virus. And if I need a new thermocouple to get the furnace running again I'm not going to wait three days for it to get here. I'm gonna go down to the big box store and buy one that day.

Yeah, I went to Home Depot last week to get a toilet repair kit and a few other things. I will not be going back. They still had employees congregating at the entrance and they had employees at the self-checkout “helping” and bagging stuff. I nearly yelled at one of them to give me my space, but we had definitely not maintained a safe distance.

I should have just ordered online, and next time I will.

 

[harley]

Interesting. I've been to Lowes (in SWFL) a couple of times in the pas two weeks. The aisles were largely empty, the employees were stocking shelves or checking out. The checkout counters had plexiglass barriers between the employee and the customer. Actually, in 20 years of going to HD and Lowes I've never seen anybody bagging other than the checkout person. Personally I think it's one of the safest stores I could go to right now.

 

[audreyh1]

Sounds very nice, Audrey.

Not bad at all for sheltering in place, otherwise I would just as soon not live on a farm out in the country. But right now I’m really appreciating the space and privacy. It’s DF’s property.

 

[Ready]

I just drove by the Home Depot in our neighborhood a few minutes ago. There was not an empty parking spot in the lot. I guess everyone was having a plumbing emergency that couldn’t wait or something.

 

[BeachOrCity]

The problem I see in California is that while we are under a strict stay at home order, there is an exception for “fresh air and exercise”. There is no definition of what that means. So when people hear they can go exercise it gets interpreted as all kinds of things - volleyball, basketball, frisbee, lying on the beach, bicycling on the path, etc. And a lot of these sports involve groups, so you see a bunch of people getting together to play.



If everyone exercised in their own neighborhood most of this would not be a problem. But when people hear they can leave their home for exercise they all want to head to the destination areas - beaches, harbors, parks, trails. We have a lot of people in this state and if everyone heads to the same areas it defeats the purpose of trying to maintain social distancing.

So are you saying it is ok for you to get some exercise on the strand but others who don’t live as close to it cannot?

It’s either open or closed. Not open only to those who (can afford to) live close to it.

 

[rodi]

I live in California which has one of the strictest orders. And we still have people out and about at beaches and parks, as well as grocery and warehouse stores. I’m not aware of any type of activity that we are restricting in California that would be deemed safe in a rural state. Six feet is six feet whether you are in New York or Nebraska.

This is not the case in the city of San Diego. Parks and beaches have been closed for over 2 weeks. But even within San Diego county it varies, last I heard the surfers had headed up to Oceanside because their beaches were still open. County park trails are still open (but parking lots closed) while city park trails are taped off and closed. It was announced that the local police would start enforcing the "essential" business rule, warning then closing businesses that had remained open.

My point is that even with the fairly strict stay at home orders in CA, it still has a lot if variability in the level.

Friends sent me a photo yesterday of the children's birthday party being hosted across the street from them. At least 5 families congregating at one house. You can't fix stupid.

 

[Ready]

So are you saying it is ok for you to get some exercise on the strand but others who don’t live as close to it cannot?

It’s either open or closed. Not open only to those who (can afford to) live close to it.

Yes, that is what I am saying. We are all supposed to stay at home and take a short break for fresh air and exercise by our homes. The fact that I live at the beach is irrelevant. Any city has certain areas that are popular areas for people to congregate. During this pandemic we do not need to be going to those areas and gathering in large groups. If a small number of people live right in those areas and happen to be walking around their neighborhood, so be it. That doesn’t mean we need the entire city gathering there right now.

There are lots of places I like to visit that are outside of the beach. I don’t go to any of them any more. It’s not right to the people who live there and also need some space right now. We should not be congregating in large groups in any one area. Period.

 

[Mdlerth]

If not for double standards we'd have no standards at all

Essential business. Plumbers and electricians are on call and the DIY'ers need a place to get stuff to fix their homes when needed.

Roger this. People's homes still need maintenance and repairs to remain habitable, especially when they're essentially imprisoned in them.

If sanitizing carts and keeping one's distance is effective at the grocery store*, why wouldn't it be effective at hardware or department stores? Likewise for outlets dealing in sporting goods, clothing, automotive, hobbies, etc. Either we stay consistent or we lose credibility and the mission fails.

The second greatest tragedy of this epidemic will be the gratuitous destruction of businesses casually deemed "nonessential", along with the impoverishment of millions of innocent people who used to work there. It didn't need to be that way.

*If it isn't effective, then let's stop pretending it is.

 

[Ready]

Roger this. People's homes still need maintenance and repairs to remain habitable, especially when they're essentially imprisoned in them.

If sanitizing carts and keeping one's distance is effective at the grocery store*, why wouldn't it be effective at hardware or department stores? Likewise for outlets dealing in sporting goods, clothing, automotive, hobbies, etc. Either we stay consistent or we lose credibility and the mission fails.

The second greatest tragedy of this epidemic will be the gratuitous destruction of businesses casually deemed "nonessential", along with the impoverishment of millions of innocent people who used to work there. It didn't need to be that way.

*If it isn't effective, then let's stop pretending it is.

And your suggestion of how we should be doing it differently would be?

 

[Tiger8693]

I live in California which has one of the strictest orders. And we still have people out and about at beaches and parks, as well as grocery and warehouse stores. I’m not aware of any type of activity that we are restricting in California that would be deemed safe in a rural state. Six feet is six feet whether you are in New York or Nebraska.

And IMO, there is no problem with people walking around and getting some exercise at beaches and parks. You have made my point. Thank you

 

[Tiger8693]

Or maybe those particular states have a lah-dee-dah, laissez-faire, who needs government, libertarian ethos until the SHTF, then they’re all “Where’s my FEMA?!” I grew up in one, so I know the culture.

Just because you had that laissez-faire attitude while there means everyone else is the same. But, I guess you have moved to a state where people are more "enlightened". Good for you.

 

[Tiger8693]

Or you could end up looking like a certain NY mayor...

March 3
Today's estimate of deaths:

I agree. That mayor, ins such a densely populated area, was a complete idiot. And now is trying to blame everyone else.

 

[NW-Bound]

I do feel sorry for city dwellers who are cooped up in their high-rise apartments. And in many places, they don't have that many square feet per person either. Arghhh!

Here, our life is not all that much different from before. We used to make a grocery run once a week, and visit a few different stores to get things they put on special sales. Now, I drive my wife to the store, wait in the car while she makes a quick dash in to grab a few things. There have been no lines other than at Costco, which I passed.

I looked on Youtube for videos of some cities where I have been. Barcelona is completely dead. Imagine all the residents locking themselves up in small apartments. I guess I have nothing to complain about.

 

[Hamlet]

Roger this. People's homes still need maintenance and repairs to remain habitable, especially when they're essentially imprisoned in them.

If sanitizing carts and keeping one's distance is effective at the grocery store*, why wouldn't it be effective at hardware or department stores? Likewise for outlets dealing in sporting goods, clothing, automotive, hobbies, etc. Either we stay consistent or we lose credibility and the mission fails.

The second greatest tragedy of this epidemic will be the gratuitous destruction of businesses casually deemed "nonessential", along with the impoverishment of millions of innocent people who used to work there. It didn't need to be that way.

*If it isn't effective, then let's stop pretending it is.

One thing to keep in mind is that effective is relative. We are trying to slow the spread of the virus, not stop it completely, since that is pretty much impossible. Going to the grocery store has some risk of spreading infection. That risk needs to be taken by a lot of people, since we all have to eat. Likewise, we need to go to the hardware store sometimes. Sporting goods, clothing stores, hobby stores, etc are generally not essential. It doesn’t make sense to take that risk to go to them.

The list of essential businesses here in Minnesota is pretty inclusive. Our aquarium stores are still open, which amazes me. I have nine fish tanks, so I would like to go to the aquarium store, but it is definitely not worth the risk. I will take the small risk of infection to get food, but I’m not going to do it to buy fish stuff.

 

[Ready]

And IMO, there is no problem with people walking around and getting some exercise at beaches and parks. You have made my point. Thank you

Regardless of your opinion, it is contrary to what our Governor has asked us to do, which is to only leave home if it is absolutely essential. A trip to the beach is not essential.

 

[Tiger8693]

Regardless of your opinion, it is contrary to what our Governor has asked us to do, which is to only leave home if it is absolutely essential. A trip to the beach is not essential.

OK, so don't go. Key statement there is "asked" you to do. As long as I am 6 ft or more away from others, then I don't give a damn what any governor says, regardless of ANYONE'S opinion.

 

[NW-Bound]

One thing to keep in mind is that effective is relative. We are trying to slow the spread of the virus, not stop it completely, since that is pretty much impossible. Going to the grocery store has some risk of spreading infection. That risk needs to be taken by a lot of people, since we all have to eat. Likewise, we need to go to the hardware store sometimes. Sporting goods, clothing stores, hobby stores, etc are generally not essential. It doesn’t make sense to take that risk to go to them.

The list of essential businesses here in Minnesota is pretty inclusive. Our aquarium stores are still open, which amazes me. I have nine fish tanks, so I would like to go to the aquarium store, but it is definitely not worth the risk. I will take the small risk of infection to get food, but I’m not going to do it to buy fish stuff.

+1

I have been repeating to my wife that she needs to put her frugality aside. This is not the time to go to another store to get what is on sale. Just grab what is available in the one store I drop her at, and get the hell out. And don't be picky about getting exactly the right thing that she wants. As she is the caretaker for her mother, I keep telling her that if she got sick, her mother would be sent to a home, because none of her siblings would step up to take care of her mother. And people in nursing homes are sitting ducks for this virus. My wife did not argue with me, but I am not sure that she is as serious about it as I am.

You've got to minimize the exposure. I guess I may feel a bit safer if I have an N95 mask plus some eye goggles, but hanging out at any place with people within 20 ft of me raises my alertness. Why the hell would people do that, unless they live in a tiny home and need to get out? Even then, you can spend time out in open spaces, which we have a lot of in the suburb. I guess some people just want to be around other people.

 

[JoeWras]

I really would like to go to a big box and start a project, but.... I've instead decided to use the crap I've saved through the years. You know: "Just in case I'll need it someday."

That day has come.

Today was some adhoc plant shelves. Not super pretty, but functional. They are made of the wrong type of wood, so I wrapped them with a plastic bag.

It is kind of a fun challenge to use what you have and make something. I have a lot more respect for people living in say, Cuba. For me, it is just a temporary challenge in time. I hope!