Assessing the Carnage

The market is discounting the future. The inflation story drove the markets up as companies can improve their margins with more money in circulation and high demand. What is freaking out the market now is rapid deflation and build up of inventories in the sales channel. Prices for electronics are crashing hard and it's not even Black Friday. Retailers have a glut of items people bought during the pandemic. People stayed at home and focused on home improvement as there was a lot of stimulus money around. That story has come and gone.
 
I don't understand the whole selling of bond funds thing in this thread. I mean, they are, for me anyway, a sort of important component of a well diversified portfolio, or are you mostly market-timers and not long-term hold investors? Just curious at a glance. Bond funds regardless of the short term losses -in my case anyway- keep generating dividend income and are less likely to tank when the rest of the market i.e. equities - are totally falling apart.
 
A Home Depot near us has enough stacked bricks, slump stones, bags of mulch, decorative concrete block, fertilizers, potting soil, etc, etc, to last another growing season. A friend that works there part time told me the inventory for this year was based on last year and we know what happened then. There is so many big pallet loads of stuff it is on the fringes of the parking lot taking parking places away from shoppers.

And this year's planting, yard work season is over here as it's almost June and 90+ F every day.

Looks like a bit of over ordering at the HD, and that stuff will be sold next season. Maybe not a good earnings year for HD?
 
The market is discounting the future. The inflation story drove the markets up as companies can improve their margins with more money in circulation and high demand. What is freaking out the market now is rapid deflation and build up of inventories in the sales channel. Prices for electronics are crashing hard and it's not even Black Friday. Retailers have a glut of items people bought during the pandemic. People stayed at home and focused on home improvement as there was a lot of stimulus money around. That story has come and gone.

A Home Depot near us has enough stacked bricks, slump stones, bags of mulch, decorative concrete block, fertilizers, potting soil, etc, etc, to last another growing season. A friend that works there part time told me the inventory for this year was based on last year and we know what happened then. There is so many big pallet loads of stuff it is on the fringes of the parking lot taking parking places away from shoppers.

And this year's planting, yard work season is over here as it's almost June and 90+ F every day.

Looks like a bit of over ordering at the HD, and that stuff will be sold next season. Maybe not a good earnings year for HD?

If true, then CPI % changes will have peaked (or at least when merchandise starts getting discounted heavily).

[I've been in the camp that while inflation may "moderate", it will be quite a while before it gets anywhere near the supposed 2% target. But, I need to also look at data as it occurs, and lowered prices at HD/WMT/TGT due to excess inventory would be welcome news. However, I'm not sure any of the above fits into basics - e.g. food and fuel.]
 
A Home Depot near us has enough stacked bricks, slump stones, bags of mulch, decorative concrete block, fertilizers, potting soil, etc, etc, to last another growing season. A friend that works there part time told me the inventory for this year was based on last year and we know what happened then. There is so many big pallet loads of stuff it is on the fringes of the parking lot taking parking places away from shoppers.

And this year's planting, yard work season is over here as it's almost June and 90+ F every day.

Looks like a bit of over ordering at the HD, and that stuff will be sold next season. Maybe not a good earnings year for HD?

Maybe they over-ordered appliances and they will soon be on sale...
 
I don't understand the whole selling of bond funds thing in this thread. I mean, they are, for me anyway, a sort of important component of a well diversified portfolio, or are you mostly market-timers and not long-term hold investors? Just curious at a glance. Bond funds regardless of the short term losses -in my case anyway- keep generating dividend income and are less likely to tank when the rest of the market i.e. equities - are totally falling apart.

I'm LTBH broad-based low cost domestic index funds with an AA based on my longevity, spending, and safest historical WR% as measured by FIREcalc.

That means roughly 97.5/2.5 target at the moment. I'm at about 2.2 bond fund as of my last update. But that's within my rebalance bands so I don't just do something, I stand there.
 
Sigh. There is a mountain of evidence that stock-picking doesn't work. It goes back about a half-century.

Re portfolio decline, when things are up I pay attention and smile. When things are down, I'm a long term investor. My advice to students in my Adult-Ed investing class:

38349-albums210-picture2181.jpg


Rip Van Winkle would have been a model investor.
 
Just a reminder, this forum is designed to encourage discussions about individual stock picking and other aspects of active investing.
 
Stock picking has a better chance of working if you don't just pick the same stocks as the crowd is picking, or the ones touted on Reddit.

By the way, the above is not stock picking. It's being a lemming. :)

PS. In my limited experience of 25 years closely following the market, I found that promises of stock price reaching the moon rarely, or should I say never, panned out. Of course, there are some stocks that have done very well, but these tend to grow when people, myself included, are not paying attention to them. Usually, the ones that get talked about the most in the media are the ones topping out, and starting to go down. My 2c.


 
Last edited:
Maybe they over-ordered appliances and they will soon be on sale...

I actually just got a new stove from Lowe's at 2018 prices. They seemed to be hurting a bit as I got a 10% discount plus it was $75 cheaper than HD plus free delivery and free installation (after rebate) which on a gas appliance is a good deal. I normally buy from HD but a deal is a deal.
 
I don't understand the whole selling of bond funds thing in this thread. I mean, they are, for me anyway, a sort of important component of a well diversified portfolio, or are you mostly market-timers and not long-term hold investors? Just curious at a glance. Bond funds regardless of the short term losses -in my case anyway- keep generating dividend income and are less likely to tank when the rest of the market i.e. equities - are totally falling apart.


Some of us are just selling the bond funds, not our individual bonds / ladders, as bond funds don't mature like regular bonds do. Market timing mean using "predictive methods" to move money around. The Fed members outright telling us they expect to have 7 rate increases this year, and two have been done, is not exactly using a ouija board to time the market. The Fed has been pretty clear on their plans since the beginning of the year, so there was little guesswork involved on what those moves were going to do to bond prices.
 
Last edited:
Some of us are just selling the bond funds, not our individual bonds / ladders, as bond funds don't mature like regular bonds do. Market timing mean using "predictive methods" to move money around. The Fed members outright telling us they expect to have 7 rates increase this year, and two have been done, is not exactly using a ouija board to time the market. The Fed has been pretty clear on their plans since the beginning of the year, so there was little guesswork involved on what those moves were going to do to bond prices.

Vanguard muni bond ETF VTEB and a couple Vanguard muni bond funds I follow ticked up two days in a row. First time in 3 months after a rapid decent.
 
Vanguard muni bond ETF VTEB and a couple Vanguard muni bond funds I follow ticked up two days in a row. First time in 3 months after a rapid decent.

Dead cat bounce??

I just wouldn't know what to sell so I'm selling nothing, equites or bonds (funds). YMMV
 
I don't own much bond at all, so do not follow the bond market.

But talking about dead cat bounces, I see that a lot with stocks.

Too many bounces. No, it cannot be a cat. It's a darn basketball! Who is dribbling it?
 
Some of us are just selling the bond funds, not our individual bonds / ladders, as bond funds don't mature like regular bonds do. Market timing mean using "predictive methods" to move money around. The Fed members outright telling us they expect to have 7 rate increases this year, and two have been done, is not exactly using a ouija board to time the market. The Fed has been pretty clear on their plans since the beginning of the year, so there was little guesswork involved on what those moves were going to do to bond prices.

So in my case I have realized NAV losses in core bond fynd holdings yet their dividends will be worth more — and my avg duration is 2-3 yrs - Holding large positions in VCSH, VGiT, SCHO -TIPs and some ultra-short ...and some EM bond funds They have been in the PF for awhile and getting out of any here would be too late IMO but in terms of offering some insurance and ballast and modest income returns, they seem to be doing that while equity funds have plunged -well plunged ‘more’ anyway... Its been suggested i just leave it alone and ‘doing’ anything now is selling low or lower. At a certain point i have to trust my diversification and AA and as others say- ignore the noise painful as tbings are to watch this year.
 
Well, today is the first day in a long time that I have not taken a beating in the market.

Oh shoot. I just realized it is Saturday. :)
 
If true, then CPI % changes will have peaked (or at least when merchandise starts getting discounted heavily).

[I've been in the camp that while inflation may "moderate", it will be quite a while before it gets anywhere near the supposed 2% target. But, I need to also look at data as it occurs, and lowered prices at HD/WMT/TGT due to excess inventory would be welcome news. However, I'm not sure any of the above fits into basics - e.g. food and fuel.]

I wouldn’t bet on that. You may get a *temporary* reprieve but retailers will adjust inventories the OTHER direction in short order and then you’ll see shortages and price increases again. 6 months ago every company was bullish and ordering like crazy. Today that’s slowing down and in some cases reversing. Merchandise planners will be ratcheting down orders quite a bit in a lot of categories. Until PPI rolls over, CPI will keep rising, and PPI is running hotter than CPI.
 
Well, today is the first day in a long time that I have not taken a beating in the market.

Oh shoot. I just realized it is Saturday. :)


When you've got beaten black and blue day-in-day-out, it feels great when the punching pauses. :D
 
I just finished balancing the books for the week and surprisingly I am up 0.82% for the week. Alternative asset classes accounted for about half of the gain, but I think I was actually up a little on the equity class. I guess some of the falling knives I have been catching must have bounced back a little.

I did find myself quite a bit on the wrong side of two PUT-Sell trades and got assigned. But I had intended to get assigned. Just not so much over the current price. Luckily it was not very much money at all.
 
I just finished balancing the books for the week and surprisingly I am up 0.82% for the week. Alternative asset classes accounted for about half of the gain, but I think I was actually up a little on the equity class. I guess some of the falling knives I have been catching must have bounced back a little.

I did find myself quite a bit on the wrong side of two PUT-Sell trades and got assigned. But I had intended to get assigned. Just not so much over the current price. Luckily it was not very much money at all.

My energy stocks have kept me up a bit YTD. I just wish I would have bought more last summer/Fall. My three puts expired yesterday without any awards (F, INTC, OKE).
 
I wouldn’t bet on that. You may get a *temporary* reprieve but retailers will adjust inventories the OTHER direction in short order and then you’ll see shortages and price increases again. 6 months ago every company was bullish and ordering like crazy. Today that’s slowing down and in some cases reversing. Merchandise planners will be ratcheting down orders quite a bit in a lot of categories. Until PPI rolls over, CPI will keep rising, and PPI is running hotter than CPI.

What I am betting on is that prices continue to rise; that the Fed will abandon "tightening" (even though they are still doing QE activities even now) due to political pressure when the recession starts to really bite (especially if it shows up in housing prices), and that "they" will do other [-]idiotic[/-] unwise things like price controls which will only result in greater long term negative impact.

Having said that, there is a limit on how much I can prepare: I am roughly (after this huge downturn) 50% equities, 43.5% fixed, 6.5% commodities. Of the fixed, almost none of it is long term non-inflation adjusted. Most of it is made up of very short term wrap's (in 401k/457 plans), TIPS, or i-Bonds). Of the commodities, some is real (e.g. PM's), some is paper (e.g. ETF's). In the equity portion, I do have some things that might do well in an inflationary environment (stocks like CTVA, FCX), but not nearly enough.

I do recognize that I am losing to inflation on the large S/T cash position, but made the decision a few years ago (somewhat too early), that I did not want to have a large duration risk on bonds that were not inflation adjusted. If the market drops "a lot" some of it will be redeployed to equities and if we get considerably higher rates and a real effort to battle inflation, in longer duration fixed instruments.

I have been steadily increasing (for years and now at an accelerated rate) the % in things like PM's. This has been done sort of using a dollar cost averaging technique as old CD's at higher rates matured. (Pretty much all done on that front so new purchases will need to come from cash or equity sales).

I am fortunate to have a mega-corp pension that I've been drawing since 2009, but unfortunately it is not COLA'd. When I retired I was able to do budget which covered my expenses with it (but was a bit tight). I didn't really live on just the pension, but did follow the budget for a while to ensure that I could if needed. ) That is no longer true: w/a CPI index value of 214.5 in 2009 vs. 289.1 as of April 2022, my pension has lost 34.7% of its purchasing power and on its way to lose a lot more.

However, since that time (at 51 y/o) to now (almost 65) I now have the ability to draw social security (but again with the caveat of it being a program which has a not-so-sure future).
 
...
I am fortunate to have a mega-corp pension that I've been drawing since 2009, but unfortunately it is not COLA'd. When I retired I was able to do budget which covered my expenses with it (but was a bit tight). I didn't really live on just the pension, but did follow the budget for a while to ensure that I could if needed. ) That is no longer true: w/a CPI index value of 214.5 in 2009 vs. 289.1 as of April 2022, my pension has lost 34.7% of its purchasing power and on its way to lose a lot more...

Inflation has a way to creep up on us, just like old age.

In your case, from 2009 till now, inflation was low at first at 2%/year. Even if it stayed there, the dollar would still lose 29% (2% compounded over 13 years).

And the latest year-over-year inflation number is 8.3%. At this high rate, just a few years of compounding would decimate any non-COLA's pension. Scary.
 
"Fossil Fuels Received $5.9 Trillion In Subsidies in 2020, Report Finds. Coal, oil, and natural gas received $5.9 trillion in subsidies in 2020 — or roughly $11 million every minute — according to a new analysis from the International Monetary Fund."

So, for those same companies selling oil in America at "global" prices and not willing to sell to the United States at their "actual price plus profit"...that is price gouging.
 
"Fossil Fuels Received $5.9 Trillion In Subsidies in 2020, Report Finds. Coal, oil, and natural gas received $5.9 trillion in subsidies in 2020 — or roughly $11 million every minute — according to a new analysis from the International Monetary Fund."

So, for those same companies selling oil in America at "global" prices and not willing to sell to the United States at their "actual price plus profit"...that is price gouging.

Um, didn't sound right to me. So it turns out that 92% of that is hand waving where no one "received" anything, according to the source: https://www.imf.org/en/Publications...ountry-Update-of-Fossil-Fuel-Subsidies-466004

Just 8 percent of the 2020 subsidy reflects undercharging for supply costs (explicit subsidies) and 92 percent for undercharging for environmental costs and foregone consumption taxes (implicit subsidies).
 
Back
Top Bottom