Assisted living plan; do you have one?

[PatrickA5]

I was fortunate in that my dad was able to live by himself at home until the very end (97 YO). But, it was a struggle and would have been much easier on him if he would have just considered some help. He didn't even like paying someone to clean his house once a month. The last couple of times the housecleaner showed up he would "hide" and not answer the door. Every conversation I had with him about moving to assisted living ended with "I'll never go to a nursing home!" He wouldn't consider moving in with me either. I told him that there would come a time when something will happen and he'll have no choice - which did happen. He lasted all of a day and a half in the nursing home - so in the end I guess he was right.


DW and I don't plan on making our kids struggle with figuring out what to do with us. I imagine at some point in the future we'll look into the CCRC or something similar. Every other aspect of estate planning has already been taken care of - even including pre-planned funerals and burials.

 

[Fedup]

I don’t believe it’s a good idea to move people to nursing home if they don’t want to. My SIL wanted desperately to do that, when she consulted us, we said let MIL do what she wanted, which means staying at her home that she shared with FIL for 30 years, a comfortable environment. In the end, she did have a stroke and caregiver found her 4-5 hours later. She died 4 days later. I think that’s a better way to go than lingering in nursing home for years.

 

[Scrapr]

I don’t believe it’s a good idea to move people to nursing home if they don’t want to. My SIL wanted desperately to do that, when she consulted us, we said let MIL do what she wanted, which means staying at her home that she shared with FIL for 30 years, a comfortable environment. In the end, she did have a stroke and caregiver found her 4-5 hours later. She died 4 days later. I think that’s a better way to go than lingering in nursing home for years.

Our neighbors Dad had the same thing happen. Major stroke. Left on the floor overnight. Lingered over 10 years in Assisted living. It was heart breaking

There are no easy answers

 

[Katiek]

I'm the youngest of my siblings and have no spouse or kids. So I'm planning to move to a "living" facility at some point in my 70's (or if I find I can't keep up my current condo or drive). Something that would start with independent living, but could provide the additional care when it becomes necessary. At that point, I may also arrange finances to get an annuity, that together with Social Security and other guaranteed income, will cover expenses at the facility and sort of put that on auto-pilot - at least for the minimum required amounts.



I do have nieces and nephews that I get along with very well and I may try to get a place reasonably near them so that they could be available in an emergency (but not counting on them for any daily care). I would trust them with helping with financial matters if I lose those cognitive skills.

 

[Fedup]

Our neighbors Dad had the same thing happen. Major stroke. Left on the floor overnight. Lingered over 10 years in Assisted living. It was heart breaking

There are no easy answers

The plug was pulled for my MIL, she was comatose, didn’t speak. My SIL and her daughter who’s a doctor in U.K. made that decision. They did ask my husband about it, he thought about it and thought it was best to do the same, but when he called her, he was told the decision was made. She didn’t die young. She was 86-87. She might live until 96, she was reasonably healthy, but didn’t enjoy life as much after her husband was gone.

Maybe it’s best to not delay people’s live uncessarily.

 

[audreyh1]

My Dad stayed at his farmhouse way out in the country as long as he could drive. When he no longer felt comfortable driving he decided to move to assisted living, because none of his kids lived nearby, and he was fine with that.

But in the last couple of years there was no home maintenance done except for things we took care of or people we encouraged him to call. He was just pretty much willing to let things go. Thank goodness he had a house cleaner who came once a month but he didn’t want her to come more often even though he could have used it. We are dealing with lots of maintenance issues at the property now.

He stopped cooking and all but the most basic grocery shopping and went out for breakfast and lunch even though it was a bit of a drive to town. Had cereal in the evening. He did run the mower, but just barely kept up with it. Didn’t want to hire a lawn service. We did after he moved and the exterior looks so much better!

I just don’t want to be dealing with maintaining a home, grocery shopping, meal prep, supervising help, etc. once I reach a certain age. So I fully intend to move somewhere where even housekeeping is taken care of for me. And we will probably do this while we are still occasionally traveling and can drive ourselves places for a while.

 

[audreyh1]

Our neighbors Dad had the same thing happen. Major stroke. Left on the floor overnight. Lingered over 10 years in Assisted living. It was heart breaking

There are no easy answers

If someone had a stroke, wouldn’t they be put in a nursing home? Assisted living does not provide nursing care. It’s more like somewhat independent living and I don’t think one would call it “lingering”.

 

[imoldernu]

This may help with the term assisted living.

https://www.aplaceformom.com/blog/things-you-didnt-know-about-assisted-living-2-19-2012/

The term is specific to the facility.

There are alternatives to the types of CCRC's generally discussed here. Here is one alternative, in our town, that offers 11 homes where seniors can live with volunteer support. Houses where small numbers of elderly can live at a limited expense.

https://www.horizonhouseperu.org/residential.htm

Funding comes from multiple sources.

Horizon House relies on generous donations from caring individuals, corporations, businesses, civic and community organizations and the United Way to make up the difference between providing the highest quality of services and the revenues we receive.

You may find similar organizations in your area.

 

[harllee]

My mother, age 86, still in very good shape has moved into a nice Continuing Care Facility. She is currently in an Independent Living Apartment and can move up to assisted/memory/skilled as needed. It is fairly expensive but it is what she wanted and fortunately she had the assets to do it. She loves it. Before she was living alone and was lonely. Now she has made friends, has people to eat with, fun activities, goes on trips. She is so busy I almost have to make an appointment to see her.

I my town (Chapel Hill, NC) there are 4 CCRCs. I have toured them all and have put my name on the waiting list for the one DH and I liked the best (Galloway Ridge). We will probably move there before we are 75. The tricky thing about Continuing Care facilities is that you have to move in when you can still live independently so you don't want to wait too long. There is a cognitive test you have to pass as well as being in good shape physically. Because we are on the waiting list we are invited to many activities at the CCRC and go there fairly often. We have already made several friends there and everyone seems to love it.

One good thing about the CCRC we chose--you pay a fairly hefty fee when you move in and then a monthly fee which is not increased when you have to go into assisted/skilled/memory care. I think it is called "Life Care". Also they have a trust fund for people who run out of money so you won't be kicked out if you do run out of funds.

All 4 of the CCRCs in our area have waiting lists--some as long as 10 years-- so don't wait too long to get on the list.

 

[skipro33]

I think that’s a better way to go than lingering in nursing home for years.

Amen to that!
ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. No thank you. But, as my wife often says to no one in particular when I make such comments, "Isn't it cute that he thinks he has a choice."

 

[Scrapr]

If someone had a stroke, wouldn’t they be put in a nursing home? Assisted living does not provide nursing care. It’s more like somewhat independent living and I don’t think one would call it “lingering”.

He was just "good" enough that he was in some different care homes. Initially it was a nursing home (SNF?) Then he graduated out of that. Neighbor had to get guardianship and bring him to Oregon. And find homes. He was in some private homes that treated him well. But ultimately he would act out enough to get booted. And the neighbor would have to find another facility. eventually he was wheelchair bound. His last facility was very good. But i think a lot of that treatment was caused by Jen going in several times a week. She got to know the staff pretty well. But he was a handful. This lasted for years.

I was not careful about the phrase Assisted living. i know the difference as Mom & Dad have/are going through the progression from AL to Memory care

 

[HI Bill]

My mom was in a memory care unit this January-February in northern central California. Since she could not dress/feed herself, the cost was ~$6K/month. A little more than half the residents were kept on medication to keep them from yelling/screaming/hurting the staff or patients. They walked or were wheeled around, and looked like zombies (nothing going on, evidently, behind their vacuous eyes). No recognition of time or place or people. Everyone's situation is going to be different. Sorry, If you don't have anyone who is willing to execute your medical power of attorney, and manage your finances, the goal will be to keep you alive as long as possible, regardless of quality of life. They wanted to give my mom appetite-increasing medication after she stopped eating. Brookdale said she had a 'couple of good years left'...but she did not. I have no intention of EVER going back to a care facility. But sometimes, older folks fall and break a hip or pelvis, entering the ER, then being discharged to physical therapy, then to a care facility. My mom had no choice in the matter. My only alternative would have been to have quit working, and moved into her house to take care of her full-time.

 

[harllee]

All of the people posting on this thread who say they are never going to a facility, how are you going to prevent that? Do you plan to take your own life if you are diagnosed with Alzheimers? What if you have a stroke and it happens so fast you cannot carry out your plan?

 

[45th Birthday]

This is a very good question. We are still (hopefully) quite a few years before this will be necessary for us. However, neither of the places we live have decent CRCCs nearby.

My wife is dealing with this firsthand with her recently widowed mother. FIL and MIL stated a desire to stay in their spacious condo until they die. We were able to convince them to move to a good CRCC near a sibling. Excellent healthcare nearby, but a good distance from the city where both were born and spent most of their lives. It lasted a summer.

FIL died earlier this year. MIL is now 93 and despite being told not to get out of bed without someone helping, got up in the middle of the night and fell. She didn't break anything, but is very frail and has memory issues. Determined to stay there until she dies. So now we (meaning my wife) is arranging 24-hour home care. My wife spends at least half her day dealing long distance with scheduling and medical issues. Not fun for her or me. MIL has enough money to last if she doesn't linger more than a few more years, but everyone is miserable.

We hope to avoid putting our children through this.

 

[Amethyst]

Harllee, all these types of threads eventually come down to the question you just asked. Usually we see responses like "I'll know when it's time, and I'll shoot myself dead/somehow get myself to an assisted-death state/take a bunch of sleeping pills." Sure you will. Sure you will.

All of the people posting on this thread who say they are never going to a facility, how are you going to prevent that? Do you plan to take your own life if you are diagnosed with Alzheimers? What if you have a stroke and it happens so fast you cannot carry out your plan?

 

[Fedup]

Or you might die in your sleep like my grandfather did and one of property managers. Nobody I know check into a CCRC, not on my in laws side either. My dad had a stroke, he went to a nursing home after that.

Also I’ve read that if you have Alzheimer’s and tend to get violent, memory care unit can check you out for good and the family has to take care of you. What are you going to do? I asked my friend whose mom is in nursing home in Ireland about this but she said her mom is really petite, tends to swat people, but in U.K., they don’t kick you out.

 

[Walt34]

Harllee, all these types of threads eventually come down to the question you just asked. Usually we see responses like "I'll know when it's time, and I'll shoot myself dead/somehow get myself to an assisted-death state/take a bunch of sleeping pills." Sure you will. Sure you will.

Yep, that's one of the scary things about a stroke. Today you're fine, 20 minutes later you have neither the thinking capacity nor the physical ability to do anything about it. So much for the pills/9mm solution.

I gather that most on this forum are old enough to have seen a relative who has had a stroke and ended up in full time nursing care. Does anyone think that person planned to end up there?

 

[Beldar]

Bottom line is that when you speak prices of "assisted living" be sure to specify how much "care" is being provided to avoid apples-to-oranges comparisons.

-gauss

Yes, this is very true. We are starting to look into relocating MIL to our area in the next year or so, and the cost varies depending on what type of assistance would be desired in a particular facility. We're trying to figure out how to supplement her SS income with the VA assistance supposedly available to widows of veterans who served during wartime (something new to me).

It's going to be an incredible hassle to liquidate her home/assets and move her cross country, but the time is near (and she knows it).

_B

 

[ncbill]

Or you might die in your sleep like my grandfather did and one of property managers. Nobody I know check into a CCRC, not on my in laws side either. My dad had a stroke, he went to a nursing home after that.

Also I’ve read that if you have Alzheimer’s and tend to get violent, memory care unit can check you out for good and the family has to take care of you. What are you going to do? I asked my friend whose mom is in nursing home in Ireland about this but she said her mom is really petite, tends to swat people, but in U.K., they don’t kick you out.

I can speak to that.

Mom had some form of frontal/temporal lobe dementia, so behavior was an issue early on.

What happens is the facility will send them to the local ER where they will wait until seen by a psych resident who will then have them involuntarily committed (in mom's case it was always the state mental hospital, 3 hours away)

Then you get to find a new assisted living/skilled nursing facility when they're released from the above, because the old one won't take them back.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

In retrospect I should have begged (or bribed) the administrators at the state hospital to keep her for the duration of her illness, since she received far better care there than any other facility.

 

[Fedup]

I can speak to that.

Mom had some form of frontal/temporal lobe dementia, so behavior was an issue early on.

What happens is the facility will send them to the local ER where they will wait until seen by a psych resident who will then have them involuntarily committed (in mom's case it was always the state mental hospital, 3 hours away)

Then you get to find a new assisted living/skilled nursing facility when they're released from the above, because the old one won't take them back.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

In retrospect I should have begged (or bribed) the administrators at the state hospital to keep her for the duration of her illness, since she received far better care there than any other facility.

All those comments about checking into early CCRCs are good as long as you know you don’t have certain type of dementia. At least at home, nobody kicks you out at home.

 

[2retireearly]

We moved my mom to an assisted living home about 1.5 years ago. She pays $3500 for a tiny 300+ sq/ft studio apartment. That was the best price we could find in the county that wasn't a total dump. Everything else was way out of her budget. She gets a tiny SS income and the proceeds from the sale of her house. When that runs out we'll have to turn to Medicaid.

My wife and I haven't made any specific plans for our own long term care, but most of our regular retirement income could be redirected that direction if needed. If we needed care beyond that we might be able to do a reverse mortgage, or even sell our house if we're no longer able to live at home (I hope that day never comes). The most difficult situation would be if one of us needs assisted living while the other is still able to live at home. I'm not sure what we would do in that situation.

A word of advice, be careful with a Reverse Mortgage. Most people get them as they assume they'll stay in their homes, until they die. The Rev Mort will help pay for care, etc. Well things get dicey when there is a couple. My parents had one (unbeknownst to me, as I would have said NO, don't do it!). My Dad used the Rev Mort , for house expenses, car, putting in stair seat for my Mother, etc). He maybe borrowed 40k. That over a few years turned into 85k. Which still went up and up. Its is compound interest daily..that no..you don't have to pay back..but..when he became ill, my mother, who was the 'less well one' has mobility issues and dementia. She couldn't live alone, or spend the night alone..or cook, etc. Help is very expensive, at least $20 and hour, which adds up, if you need a lot of hours. So the best thing to do , was for them to move to an all stages facility, into Independent Living, at first, as he could take care of her. His mind is good, and he became more well...They needed the equity from the sale of the home to live off off. So equity was really cut into, from the rev mort they had had for 10 years. The worstwould have been if my Dad died, then Mother would have had to move to a more expense Assisted or memory care unit..Very expensive. And then very little equity left in house at that point. So, I advise against them. As most likely you do not get the luxury of living in your home, forever. Rev Mort are very expensive, daily, by not paying back on the mortgage. At the closing of their house, the Lawyer said to our agent , 'Ann shoot me, if I ever become old and think a reverse mortgage is a good deal'. He saw how it was then $130k owed on the rev mort.

 

[nwsteve]

One good thing about the CCRC we chose--you pay a fairly hefty fee when you move in and then a monthly fee which is not increased when you have to go into assisted/skilled/memory care. I think it is called "Life Care". Also they have a trust fund for people who run out of money so you won't be kicked out if you do run out of funds.

All 4 of the CCRCs in our area have waiting lists--some as long as 10 years-- so don't wait too long to get on the list.

The entire timing thing for the move to a CCRC is a huge dilemma for most. Move too late and you may not qualify for entry. Move too early, and you have to face a major entry fee and transfer of a significant piece of networth.
Having discussed "early entry" with several CCRC residents who Did make the move before 75, we consistently heard their strong endorsement of the early option. Several pointed out that the early entry allows them to fully benefit from the CCRC many choices and independence life style. One of the more financially driven gentlemen also pointed that early entry provided a longer time to amortize the entry fee and gain the benefits.

Another externality to consider is that availability later may not be an option. Many CCRCs already have long wait lists and the boomer wave is just now starting to move in the 70+ era. While new CCRCs are being built, it is clearly not at the rate of new boomers entering the market

 

[Teacher Terry]

My good friend had Alzheimer’s and her husband who was severely wounded in Vietnam died so I had to put her in a home. Good luck getting the widows benefit because we didn’t get it. Lots of rules and even though she was poor didn’t get it. Not everyone can afford to buy into a CCRV. Here even people who have their homes paid for find them out of reach financially. Also huge homeowner dues.

 

[zippy2020]

The entire timing thing for the move to a CCRC is a huge dilemma for most. ......Another externality to consider is that availability later may not be an option. ..... While new CCRCs are being built, it is clearly not at the rate of new boomers entering the market

Absolutely correct - we visited a brand new, for-profit, very expensive "deluxe" CCRC recently. The units sold out within 2 weeks. A 2bd 2ba unit is almost $8K/mo.

 

[GravitySucks]

Assisted living here in a good community can be had for $3,500 a month, $5,000 for a full apartment and $7,000 for the rich folk home. Five to one women to men, happy hour every afternoon, trips to the casino.... Almost looking forward to it!
Skilled nursing is a bit over $100,000. I worked my way through Community College at a Nursing home. Don't want to live in any of them. Would hope to die before getting through a whole year. The cheapest in the area is not the one that ended up in the news. Not sure if I'm in that bad shape it matters of I'm in a government paid vs. Private paid.
Hope to have the chance to sit on a lawn chair out in low tide with a bottle of Canadian and a pocket full of rocks before I have to check into one of those places.