Average earning/savings of a software developer in San Francisco area

[Spanky]

Kiddo #1 lives quite well on modest means in a rented apartment in a beach location. We've pointed out that even spending $1K more a month post college but otherwise keeping the same quite pleasant lifestyle while earning a Bay Area IT salary could provide $12K of extra fun and travel money while also setting enough aside to fund ER at a relatively young age.

DD is paying only $500 a month for sharing a townhouse in San Jose.

 

[Spanky]

We've seen a number of boom and busts over the years. When we moved here decades ago SV was actually in a job and housing slump compared to the rest of the Bay Area. Who knows what the future will hold for any particular area over the long term. New York is still a world wide financial hub, but Detroit has sure changed over the last couple of decades.

SV has more diversified businesses (semiconductor, electronics, medical devices, social networking, etc. ) than New York or Detroit.

 

[Spanky]

I remember this photo from the 90s. It needs updating. The price should be $1,999,995.View attachment 20934


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Yes, price of real-estate in SV is nuts. People are still bidding up the asking prices. Many Chinese "investors" from Mainland would buy them with minimal inspection and resell them. Housing in the north East Bay (e.g., Concord, Brentwood, Discovery Bay) is still affordable, but the commute is terrible to the valley.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We've had fun posting about this one here before - uninhabitable, infested with rodents, located in a flood zone, former hoarder house - yours for the low, low asking price of only $1.8M:

‘Uninhabitable’ Palo Alto Home On Market For $1.8M - CBS San Francisco

Hoarder House In Palo Alto Is On the Market for $1.8 Million

"The listing on Trulia hasn't even bothered to conceal the home's decrepit state. Instead, it just notes: "Property is not habitable. Property is located in a flood zone. Prospective buyers to drive or walk around property only."

 

[Spanky]

We've had fun posting about this one here before - uninhabitable, infested with rodents, located in a flood zone, former hoarder house - yours for the low, low asking price of only $1.8M:

‘Uninhabitable’ Palo Alto Home On Market For $1.8M - CBS San Francisco

Hoarder House In Palo Alto Is On the Market for $1.8 Million

"The listing on Trulia hasn't even bothered to conceal the home's decrepit state. Instead, it just notes: "Property is not habitable. Property is located in a flood zone. Prospective buyers to drive or walk around property only."

"a group of investors pays $2 million in cash for the property and bull doze it to build a new house .."
Uhm .. must be those people from Mainland China.

http://www.theatlantic.com/china/ar...people-buy-so-many-homes-in-palo-alto/281234/

 

[JoeWras]

Of course, Palo Alto is the extreme.

There are plenty of homes to be had in Santa Clara, for instance, for only $800,000. They may be 50's era, and small, but they are "affordable."

 

[Spanky]

Of course, Palo Alto is the extreme.

There are plenty of homes to be had in Santa Clara, for instance, for only $800,000. They may be 50's era, and small, but they are "affordable."

That seems odd - Santa Clara is in the heart of SV. I guess proximity to Standford U and Facebook is more desirable.

 

[photoguy]

There are plenty of homes to be had in Santa Clara, for instance, for only $800,000. They may be 50's era, and small, but they are "affordable."

There are some available but I wouldn't say there are plenty. The whole silicon valley area extremely tight by the months of supply metric. For Santa Clara (the city) I see 20 houses for sale with 125 sold in the past 90 days on zillow. So that's way less than 1 month of supply (I think the rule of thumb is 6 months of supply is considered balanced between buyers and sellers).

The whole area has been like this for at least year, probably more.

 

[Brat]

In years past I would describe Portland's tech as hardware, now it appears that software is gaining momentum. A recent article in the Oregonian stated that eBay's employment has grown to over 200. Oregon tech: A selling spree -- and a growth spurt | OregonLive.com


Our housing and cost of living isn't cheap but it is less than the Bay Area or Seattle. PDX-SJC is almost a commuter run.

 

[teejayevans]

It's not what you make, it's what you keep, high taxes and high living expenses take a huge bite out of the $250k salary


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[JoeWras]

There are some available but I wouldn't say there are plenty. The whole silicon valley area extremely tight by the months of supply metric. For Santa Clara (the city) I see 20 houses for sale with 125 sold in the past 90 days on zillow. So that's way less than 1 month of supply (I think the rule of thumb is 6 months of supply is considered balanced between buyers and sellers).

The whole area has been like this for at least year, probably more.

Yes. I was being slightly sarcastic.

Comparing to Palo Alto which is one of the supreme SV locations.

I mean, you can also investigate Milpitas near the prison for maybe somewhere in the 600s. But supply is tight. Hence the rise in prices.

When I speak to my Megacorp friends and tell them about other places in the USA, they cannot believe that our houses, similar in age and square footage, run 100s to 300s depending on the area. Dumbfounded. Then again, I'm dumbfounded by their salaries and bonuses, so I guess it goes both ways.

The key is if you can find a cheap way to live, you can make good cash in SV these days, even with the tax load and some other issues. I guess that is the point many are making on this thread.

 

[Options]

I think that the bull market in equities is inflating compensation right now as those stock options granted over the past 5-6 years are deep in the money. People should enjoy the extra income while it lasts. I know that, personally, we are one bear market away from a big drop in income.

I couldn't disagree more. I'm from the Bay Area, was just there visiting family over the holidays, and the transformation from when I left almost 30 years ago is unbelievable. There will be no drop in incomes there in our lifetimes. You might see incomes slow down a bit, as you did after the '08 crash, but no drop. Whole family either works or has worked in tech. I tell them SF is just LA (smog, horrendous traffic, gangs, graffitti, none of which was there when I was growing up) without the glamor, although it now has that awful tech attitude to match LA's celebrity obsession. Were it not for visiting the family, I'd never go back to the Bay Area for any reason.

Yes. I was being slightly sarcastic.

Comparing to Palo Alto which is one of the supreme SV locations.

I mean, you can also investigate Milpitas near the prison for maybe somewhere in the 600s. But supply is tight. Hence the rise in prices.

When I speak to my Megacorp friends and tell them about other places in the USA, they cannot believe that our houses, similar in age and square footage, run 100s to 300s depending on the area. Dumbfounded. Then again, I'm dumbfounded by their salaries and bonuses, so I guess it goes both ways.

The key is if you can find a cheap way to live, you can make good cash in SV these days, even with the tax load and some other issues. I guess that is the point many are making on this thread.

Sister and brother-in-law are paying $5K/month for an upscale townhome in Campbell, and they're only renting. Brother in law is a high paid exec with a big tech firm, and they're priced out of the market.

 

[photoguy]

When I speak to my Megacorp friends and tell them about other places in the USA, they cannot believe that our houses, similar in age and square footage, run 100s to 300s depending on the area. Dumbfounded. Then again, I'm dumbfounded by their salaries and bonuses, so I guess it goes both ways.

Yeah it was very discouraging when house hunting in SV to see that the downpayment alone would cover the entire house in other states.

The key is if you can find a cheap way to live, you can make good cash in SV these days, even with the tax load and some other issues. I guess that is the point many are making on this thread.

That was the plan for us but I don't think we executed it very well compared to some in this thread. We bought a starter home in san jose and our mortgage was nearly 3k/month.

Sister and brother-in-law are paying $5K/month for an upscale townhome in Campbell, and they're only renting. Brother in law is a high paid exec with a big tech firm, and they're priced out of the market.

Campbell is not that expensive. If they can afford 5k/month rent they probably could afford a fairly nice house, a few levels above starter, just not anywhere near what you could get in other states.

 

[Fermion]

Seattle is pretty hot right now (Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple)

Wife pulls in similar to those figures with bonus as a senior software engineer but she is brilliant and performs the work of 3 normal engineers.

Warm bodies can still get into six figures and engineers with more people skills (my wife tells her boss and his boss how wrong they are quite frequently) can get above $300k.

 

[nuke_diver]

Although not specifically Silicon Valley or San Francisco, my SF Bay Area organization has about 600 employees with job classifications related to software development. Based on the salary distribution from a few years ago and projecting forward using average raises, 2015 salaries at given percentiles are ...

10%: $120K
25%: $135K
50%: $153K
75%: $175K
90%: $206K

Bonuses are either $0 or insignificant, but benefits are good. About half the employees are in a very generous DB pension program. The other half are in a 401k with the employer matching ~10% of salary (i.e., an additional $10K-$20K a year).

Wow...software guys make big bucks here. I've been in the Bay Area for 20+ years and I'm below that median salary with a semiconductor company. I'm an Eng Mgr with a Masters and I thought I was well compensated ...

We were lucky to buy in the early 90's. A larger earthquake has a bigger effect on local prices it seems than a large recession (prices after the Loma Prieta dropped a fair bit, after 2008 not so much). It is too crowded here for me but DW is a city girl and the weather is hard to beat (upper 60's this week). Price of housing seems to be driven by Mainland Chinese and Indian who often have 3 generations in the house but it's good for me. If I need extra cash for retirement my house will do nicely since it's paid for and is worth FAR more than I paid for it

 

[Spanky]

Seattle is pretty hot right now (Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple)

Seattle is big plus - no state income tax.

Wife pulls in similar to those figures with bonus as a senior software engineer but she is brilliant and performs the work of 3 normal engineers.

Did she say that or that's what you think?

Warm bodies can still get into six figures and engineers with more people skills (my wife tells her boss and his boss how wrong they are quite frequently) can get above $300k.

That means that you have to get into management.

 

[Spanky]

Price of housing seems to be driven by Mainland Chinese and Indian who often have 3 generations in the house but it's good for me. If I need extra cash for retirement my house will do nicely since it's paid for and is worth FAR more than I paid for it

I think it is driven by buyers with lots of cash and not enough homes for sale.

 

[Lsbcal]

Bay Area housing prices have been sky high for decades. We lived in Silicon Valley from 1972 to 1997. Our 1500 sf, 3 bd, 2 bath house went like this:

1975: $52k
1997: $465k (when we sold)
2015: $1370k

An appreciation of 10.5% per year for us. Nice leverage if you put down only $5k and had the Prop 13 tax frozen status.

But the booms and busts are pretty extreme. It can be tough to ride the tech industry wave. The tech specialists of 2015 could find it tough going in a few years if they do not getting the project experience of the emerging technologies -- whatever those might be at any given period. I had to make several career adjustments and it was worrisome at times. There are some people who walk on water and do just fine. Very smart Americans from all over the country, plus plenty of Europeans, India trained engineers, and Chinese.

Lots of brains and egos -- huge egos. It can be a hard environment if you are a sensitive person. People can change from being a playful puppy dog out of school to being a manager on the elevator going up with all the social implications. Don't believe all those stories of work environments where people play with nerf balls or whatever. It can get cut throat when layoffs loom or even any time.

It's probably just fine for very young workers and especially if they salt away some of their earnings. Buying real estate is a tough decision.

While we did well, I'm glad to be out of that stressful work environment.

 

[nuke_diver]

I think it is driven by buyers with lots of cash and not enough homes for sale.

Must be those software engineers

There will never really be enough houses for sale in the Bay area which is why housing will always be an premium here..Ocean/Bay and mountains restrict the amount of land that can be built on. And those same mountains/water make access restricted as well so so moving too far away comes with the price of a nasty commute. Lately the trend is for high density housing as a result...not cheap but cheaper but if you want a house with a big yard there aren't too many and those of us that have them are in fat city

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

If you think some of the compensation packages being mentioned here are big, you should consider how much money many of the sales reps make who work for these companies. Based on my personal experience, even an inside sales guy at a mid-sized tech company with a solid product can make $150k-200k. Field sales reps (non-management) can make upwards to $750k to $1.25M. Yes, they're in sales and carry a quota, but many get paid big money just on maintenance & support renewals, with some getting quota retirement for purchases made as a result of license compliance audits. Also, and perhaps more importantly, sales reps can often live in low cost areas since they're always on the road.

If I were a software engineer today, I'd consider becoming a Sales Engineer supporting Field Sales, and then learn how to sell (you pick up a lot by osmosis by accompanying field sales on customer calls). If field sales didn't work out, I could always go back to being an engineer.

 

[Fermion]

Did she say that or that's what you think?

Just my experience. She is quite modest but is always inheriting bad C# code from someone who leaves the group and ends up rewriting a cleaner, more efficient version. One time she took work done by another engineer over a three month period and rewrote the whole code in a weekend. When a section was outsourced to India and that failed after quite a few months of back and forth miscommunication, she took on the whole project and finished it in 10 days. She is underpaid for what she does....should go into sales or management but has zero people skills (perhaps even negative people skills).

The sales guys indeed make $500K or more.

 

[Spanky]

If you think some of the compensation packages being mentioned here are big, you should consider how much money many of the sales reps make who work for these companies. Based on my personal experience, even an inside sales guy at a mid-sized tech company with a solid product can make $150k-200k. Field sales reps (non-management) can make upwards to $750k to $1.25M. Yes, they're in sales and carry a quota, but many get paid big money just on maintenance & support renewals, with some getting quota retirement for purchases made as a result of license compliance audits. Also, and perhaps more importantly, sales reps can often live in low cost areas since they're always on the road.

If I were a software engineer today, I'd consider becoming a Sales Engineer supporting Field Sales, and then learn how to sell (you pick up a lot by osmosis by accompanying field sales on customer calls). If field sales didn't work out, I could always go back to being an engineer.

Yup! Communication & people skills always outweigh technical skills.

 

[Spanky]

Just my experience. She is quite modest but is always inheriting bad C# code from someone who leaves the group and ends up rewriting a cleaner, more efficient version. One time she took work done by another engineer over a three month period and rewrote the whole code in a weekend. When a section was outsourced to India and that failed after quite a few months of back and forth miscommunication, she took on the whole project and finished it in 10 days. She is underpaid for what she does....should go into sales or management but has zero people skills (perhaps even negative people skills).

The sales guys indeed make $500K or more.

She's truly a hyper/super performer and is highly wanted by any company.

 

[MRG]

Yup! Communication & people skills always outweigh technical skills.

Yes there came a time in my career when my manager flat out told me "you're maxed out as a techie. If you want more money I need you at client sites consulting or being a crit sit leader". Frankly I enjoyed that more than straight development. The crit sits fed my adrenaline addiction. I still had to have extremely sharp tech skills as you had reponsibility to get a resolution the issue(s).

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[Jay_Gatsby]

Yes there came a time in my career when my manager flat out told me "you're maxed out as a techie. If you want more money I need you at client sites consulting or being a crit sit leader". Frankly I enjoyed that more than straight development. The crit sits fed my adrenaline addiction. I still had to have extremely sharp tech skills as you had reponsibility to get a resolution the issue(s).

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That's the way it's always been.