Call for boycott of VG

[gerntz]

I'm not surprised people would boycott me. VG are my initials.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I will always be on the side of youthful idealism--too soon we grow old and jaded. Vanguard had a nice imo response to this, taking Hogg and the school shootings seriously :

In a statement to Yahoo Finance, a Vanguard spokesperson said the firm “shares many individuals’ concerns about public safety and firearm access and hopes that policymakers take appropriate action to protect Americans from gun violence. Schools, churches and public spaces should always be safe places for all individuals.”

“Vanguard is taking action, meeting with the leaders of gun manufacturers and distributors. We want to know how they will mitigate the risks that their products pose and how they plan to help prevent such tragedies from happening again. We believe that boards and managements of gun manufacturers should disclose and reduce the risks associated with gun violence and the ongoing national debate on gun safety and control. We believe that when a business poses a risk to society, it can also pose a risk to investors. We are expressing this viewpoint directly with company leaders because we believe greater focus and transparency on these issues will ultimately benefit society and investors alike,” she added.

 

[Sunset]

Anyone wishing to support this boycott, can show their intense support and give me their shares for $0.00

Teach those terrible stock folks that profit is bad and evil.

This will really help (me at least)...

 

[Big_Hitter]

maybe he's an advocate for active management

 

[eytonxav]

These protests/boycotts against companies and advertisers, etc seem ludicrous to me and I am surprised at those that give in to these demands. What would happen if the other side of the story started protesting/boycotting?

 

[HFWR]

These protests/boycotts against companies and advertisers, etc seem ludicrous to me and I am surprised at those that give in to these demands. What would happen if the other side of the story started protesting/boycotting?

You mean they don’t?

 

[Hermit]

These protests/boycotts against companies and advertisers, etc seem ludicrous to me and I am surprised at those that give in to these demands. What would happen if the other side of the story started protesting/boycotting?

My son-in-law no longer will do business with REI. They have stopped carrying Giro helmets and Camel Back water holders because the corporation that manufacturers them also has a subsidiary that manufactures guns. REI has never sold guns. SIL is an avid out enthusiast and also a gun enthusiast who did a lot of business with REI. REI's decision most likely reflects the top level management's political views. It would be interesting to see how their decision affects their bottom line, but we will probably never know.

 

[candrew]

In all honesty, DW & I at times feel conflicted when it comes to our values in comparison to some of the companies that are listed in the index funds we are invested in with FIDO. Neither one of us are savvy enough investors that we'd be confident in our ability to slice and dice a DIY portfolio and manage it successfully going forward. The expense fees and returns of the more "socially responsible" funds could end up undermining our retirements.

If shoving the entirety of our retirement $$ in traditional savings accounts, CD's, or, even better yet a mattress could sustain us, we'd do it.

 

[mystang52]

I'm curious how Mr. Hogg's parents have their money invested.

 

[samclem]

If shoving the entirety of our retirement $$ in traditional savings accounts, CD's, or, even better yet a mattress could sustain us, we'd do it.

But that money you put into savings accounts and CDs gets loaned out, often to businesses. How could you be sure that you aren't helping to fund a "bad" thing?

The expense fees and returns of the more "socially responsible" funds could end up undermining our retirements.

I agree. I think a "socially conscious" individual can do the most practical good by investing in low-cost index funds and using the returns to directly support the good causes in which they believe. Yes, you'll own stock in some companies you might not like, but somebody was going to own those stocks anyway (it might be me!), and by shunning them you do very little to "hurt" the company.
And boycotting Vanguard? There are >very< few companies that have done more to benefit average people than Vanguard.

 

[candrew]

But that money you put into savings accounts and CDs gets loaned out, often to businesses. How could you be sure that you aren't helping to fund a "bad" thing?

I agree. I think a "socially conscious" individual can do the most practical good by investing in low-cost index funds and using the returns to directly support the good causes in which they believe. Yes, you'll own stock in some companies you might not like, but somebody was going to own those stocks anyway (it might be me!), and by shunning them you do very little to "hurt" the company.
And boycotting Vanguard? There are >very< few companies that have done more to benefit average people than Vanguard.

Very well said on both counts! On the first, you are correct, once that money is out of our hands, there is little certainty in where and with whom it is invested.

On the second; yes it is about that old adage of voting with one's wallet by supporting organizations and causes reflective of one's values.

 

[ownyourfuture]

Like people, causes get 15 minutes of fame and then "the next big event" comes to the forefront and your cause becomes yesterday's news. Then you need to do something to reset that 15 minute clock. Hence today's announcement.

Well stated. It would be best just to ignore him. But news is news & good news doesn't sell. It's happening right here @ ERF. Just to make this post, I had to 'sign off' on some ridiculous agreement to be extra careful because this is considered a HOT TOPIC!

LOL

 

[flintnational]

.................If shoving the entirety of our retirement $$ in traditional savings accounts, CD's, or, even better yet a mattress could sustain us, we'd do it.

traditional savings = funding warmongering government
CD's = dealing with oppressive banks
mattress = dealing with evil mattress companies (okay maybe they are good guys)

I am evaluating the "bury money in a can in the back yard" strategy. But I can't come up with a socially responsible can manufacturer. Apparently they use a can liner that some find objectionable.

 

[USGrant1962]

New book

Looks to me like a marketing campaign for his new book: Parkland survivors David Hogg and Lauren Hogg to publish book #NeverAgain | EW.com

 

[candrew]

I am evaluating the "bury money in a can in the back yard" strategy. But I can't come up with a socially responsible can manufacturer. Apparently they use a can liner that some find objectionable.

Maybe bury it an empty coffee can? A Fair Trade one, of course.

 

[teejayevans]

Looks to me like a marketing campaign for his new book: Parkland survivors David Hogg and Lauren Hogg to publish book #NeverAgain | EW.com

He hid in a closet during the shooting, I don’t see it being a page turner.
The thought of a 17 year old who still lives with his parents and apparently can’t form a sentence without using profanity writing a book...I’ll pass.

 

[ERD50]

Regardless of the merits of this particular issue, I have always wondered about the efficacy of such a boycott. It seems to me that once a company issues stock in the primary market, it is largely indifferent to trading on the subsequent secondary market (unless it is Enron), as it has received the proceeds of its issuance. If the protesters are successful and Vanguard does not own the boycotted stock, someone else will. The trading effects thus will be felt by the traders in the secondary market, but not by the "bad" company who originally issued the stock. I am uncertain what those who support such a boycott ever hope to accomplish.

Well said, but try to explain that to some 17 year olds.

I'm more than willing to cut these kids a LOT of slack after what they've been through, but when the "we have to do something" approach gets in the way of doing something that will actually help, no one is served.

Maybe bury it an empty coffee can? A Fair Trade one, of course.

You might find Fair Trade Coffee, but a Fair Trade Coffee can? I dunno, I think the tin mine owners have been accused of unfair work/environmental practices.

It's never easy, is it?

It might be kind of funny to ask that question at Trader Joe's. "Yes, it says 'fair trade' right on the can". "No, not the coffee, the can - is the can fair trade?"

But I wouldn't do that to some poor working person, but it could be funny.

-ERD50

 

[Hamlet]

While I think boycotts like this have little direct effect, they can have more of an impact in the long run. They are like a slow-burning negative PR campaign. I believe the fossil fuel divestment campaign is a good example of this. It certainly hasn't taken down any companies, but it has helped foster a negative sentiment toward them. Hundreds of funds have begun divestment.

These kids sure have a lot of PR folks hopping, trying to distance themselves from the NRA. Whether it results in lasting change remains to be seen.

I think there are situations where the threat of a boycott can be very effective, and some where it is completely useless.

Hogg's encouragement to have people boycott Laura Ingraham's advertisers was very effective. Not because anyone was actually going to boycott them, but because very few advertisers are going to want their brand associated with someone making classless, ad hominem attacks on a young survivor of gun violence. Regardless of your views on gun control, her behavior was terrible, and brands were rightly very quick to distance themselves from her.

That boycott may not be effective in changing gun control laws, but I think it will have some impact in making on-air personalities think twice before engaging in low-class personal attacks. I think that is a very good thing, as the level of discourse has gotten pretty darn low in this country.

In contrast, I doubt his attempted boycott of Vanguard is going to have any effect. Almost no one who invests is going to feel like it is Vanguard's job to effect change on all of the companies that they have in their index funds. I think even most people who are extremely sympathetic to his cause are going to ignore that call.

Vanguard's response was very solid, and I suspect the whole thing will be forgotten in a week or two.

 

[mamadogmamacat]

i do not even have cable TV so do not watch her show but i did read that after the initial dip her viewership went up from its previous high of 2.5 M to 3.0M and advertisers are reconsidering, with one Ace already returning I do not like bullying even when the bully thinks his cause is virtuous ( what bully doesn't if you think about it)

 

[marko]

If I deliberately sold a great performing fund and then bought into a lesser performing fund so that I'd "feel good" over its make up, my granddad would rise up out of his grave and strangle me himself.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

i do not even have cable TV so do not watch her show but i did read that after the initial dip her viewership went up from its previous high of 2.5 M to 3.0M and advertisers are reconsidering, with one Ace already returning I do not like bullying even when the bully thinks his cause is virtuous ( what bully doesn't if you think about it)

yes, this was reported in thehill.com: http://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/383482-ingrahams-ratings-spike-a-wake-up-for-advertisers

 

[CountryGal]

Please stop! Say what ever you want pro or con, but please do not bash or ridicule these kids in ANY way. They have been through something horrific and trying to make an impact. The insults and jabs at them are very difficult to hear. Thank you.

 

[Texas Proud]

Please stop! Say what ever you want pro or con, but please do not bash or ridicule these kids in ANY way. They have been through something horrific and trying to make an impact. The insults and jabs at them are very difficult to hear. Thank you.

It seems this upsets you, so I would suggest that you block this thread...

IMO I would agree not to say anything negative about the kids that went through that ordeal....

But, some of them have decided to wade into the muck of politics.... they do not get a free ride when they do...

Also, when they make a stmt to boycott a company like Vanguard who is buying all stocks in an index and has no choice in what they buy that shows lack of knowledge of how things work.... they need to be better educated before asking for a boycott like this...

 

[Alan]

Thanks for the interesting discussion.