Can anyone read this?

[braumeister]

Since there always seem to be a few of our members who are experts in whatever odd task is needed, I'd like to ask if anyone can decipher this handwriting. I'm trying to do a little genealogy and this one defeats me.

It's from a church register in a small town in Germany, documenting a baptism in 1790. It's in Latin, as were all these records until the 19th century when they switched to German. I've excerpted the part that stumps me. This is the part that shows the child's parents. I get that the father was John Henry, and the mother was Anna Gertrude, but the the rest of it baffles me.

The handwriting is sloppy, but any guesses would be appreciated.

 

[calmloki]

Third line clearly says:
"U hoent ingly bug worthengrn"
Sorry, don't speak Latin or old German, so can't translate.
no need to thank me.

 

[Kerfuffle]

I wonder if the third line refers to where/who hosted the baptism?

 

[braumeister]

no need to thank me.

Gotcha covered.

 

[braumeister]

I wonder if the third line refers to where/who hosted the baptism?

No, it's the section that identifies the parents. We know exactly where it was done.

 

[gettingthere]

Can you provide a larger clip, with translation? Seeing how letters are written elsewhere may help identify some of these.

That said, my guess is the first word is Joannes ? then Henri u? y? Second word on second line looks like maybe Anna?

 

[braumeister]

Did you read the OP?

father was John Henry, and the mother was Anna Gertrude

 

[gettingthere]

Oops, sorry.

But still, a larger sample of the handwriting might help.

 

[braumeister]

Oops, sorry.

But still, a larger sample of the handwriting might help.

It wouldn't. I have several pages of the register, before and after this one, and it all looks like this. I can decipher it in most cases and I'm familiar with that German script and what the letters look like. I was hoping that someone fluent in Latin might be able to guess what these words are.

 

[gettingthere]

OK, I give up, since I can't even tell what the letters are. Sorry.

 

[braumeister]

OK, I give up, since I can't even tell what the letters are. Sorry.

Hey, I still appreciate the effort. These listings are mostly formulaic, so it's generally possible to understand them. This particular one just has such sloppy handwriting that it eludes me.

 

[Winemaker]

I don't have my Old German dictionary with me at the moment, but in my research, the parents are usually described by their occupation or land owner status and whether they were practicing member of that church.

After Gertrud, it may read "hubler", which is a full size parcel of land. I'll get back to you later, as I am not home, and actually going through old Vienna church records.

Also, church records back then weren't necessarily required to be in one language or another, it depended on the education of the priest. He may have been educated in a Latin based school, or in the native tongue. Since governments changed often, the Churches of the time took it upon themselves to keep records and vital statistics. And spellings of the time were phonetic, not necessarily exact.

 

[braumeister]

I don't have my Old German dictionary with me at the moment, but in my research, the parents are usually described by their occupation or land owner status and whether they were practicing member of that church.

Thanks, but none of the other entries in this register are so described. What comes after Gertrude may be her maiden name, split into two parts, plus some additional text.

 

[cathy63]

After Gertrud, there's something like a y with a dot or a j. Beyond that, there's some resemblance between the s in Joannes and the first character of the next word, which I assume is their surname or the mother's maiden name. There may be a c, then h, l, e, p or f, r. So, it could be Schlefr or Shlepr or something similar.

I wonder if the next line says something about where they live, e.g. "residing in the town of [illegible]".

Do you have a death record for the child that gives a name or place of birth? Or any other information about these people that could provide some context?

 

[braumeister]

Do you have a death record for the child that gives a name or place of birth? Or any other information about these people that could provide some context?

I know where he was born (in the village where this church is located). I know his full name (which is not in this excerpt, to preserve my anonymity). The mystery part is what comes after the mother's name. I really do think that her maiden name is probably what comes after Anna Gertrude, but it's all in Latin and obviously extremely hard to read.

 

[tulak]

Probably not much help, but I asked a friend who knows german and is familiar with reading different script. For the last row, they think it’s ‘uhorst inghfy buy’ or ‘inghty’. They have no idea about the last word.

 

[braumeister]

Probably not much help, but I asked a friend who knows german and is familiar with reading different script. For the last row, they think it’s ‘uhorst inghfy buy’ or ‘inghty’. They have no idea about the last word.

Thanks. Doesn't sound much like Latin to me, and I agree that's kinda what it looks like, but not much help. Sigh.

 

[pacergal]

maybe obvious question, but have you tried google translate?
I have only used it very rarely, so don't know if it would help with old languages.

 

[braumeister]

maybe obvious question, but have you tried google translate?
I have only used it very rarely, so don't know if it would help with old languages.

Well, that's the problem. If I knew exactly what it said, I could translate it myself.

 

[SecondCor521]

A long time ago I studied for the equivalent of two years of college Latin. In my moderately-educated opinion, that last line doesn't look like Latin. In particular, the last word is quite long, and from what I know longer words are more likely to be German than Latin.

Also, the first word looks to me like "hoest", which Google translate thinks is Dutch. I don't know the word, and I don't know Dutch, but it sounds more Germanic than Latin to me as well. And Dutch is related to German.

So my suggestion would be to find a German professor either at a nearby university or one with whom you have some sort of connection and show it to them.

I suspect that in order to translate it, you're going to need to find someone who is fluent in the language in which it is written - the context of knowing the language is probably what will be required to crack what it says. For example, the mark that looks like a tilde above and to the right of the third word ("buy"?) could very well be indicating an abbreviation or an elision. If so, guessing a partial word like that probably requires a native speaker. You could do it in English - for example if I wrote abbr~ you'd know what word I meant, but that's only by context and because you're a native English speaker (I think).

My bet is that it is some sort of old German.

 

[braumeister]

My bet is that it is some sort of old German.

Your thoughts certainly make sense, but I had to read through dozens of pages in this old church register to find the page I needed, and except for the names, every single entry is entirely in Latin. They didn't switch to writing in German until ten years after this was recorded.

ETA: Actually, the names are also Latinized, so I'm fairly sure there is no German here.

 

[SecondCor521]

Your thoughts certainly make sense, but I had to read through dozens of pages in this old church register to find the page I needed, and except for the names, every single entry is entirely in Latin. They didn't switch to writing in German until ten years after this was recorded.

ETA: Actually, the names are also Latinized, so I'm fairly sure there is no German here.

I'm asking the following question to be helpful in an epistemological sort of way, not a challenging sort of way: How do you know that the entries are Latin and not, say, some form of Old German or other language like Luxembourgish?

Also, would you be willing to share the town or region where the document came from?

 

[braumeister]

I'm asking the following question to be helpful in an epistemological sort of way, not a challenging sort of way: How do you know that the entries are Latin and not, say, some form of Old German or other language like Luxembourgish?

You'll just have to take my word for it

Also, would you be willing to share the town or region where the document came from?

No.

 

[euro]

You'll just have to take my word for it

No.

Braumeister, you seem to have a pretty snippy attitude for someone who started the thread looking for help..... just saying

 

[braumeister]

I'm sorry you think so.