Cat Door Advise

[Amethyst]

For one thing, birds can fly, and cats can't. There's a reason why we can hear the many birds on our heavily-treed property, but seldom see them except when they zip from tree to tree.

I love birds, but have never understood why some people get all riled up specifically about cats killing birds - considering the dangerous life that all wild birds lead, constantly in peril from other (predatory) birds, foxes and other predators, including even some humans.

The indoor/outdoor cats I have known, brought their catches home to display: field mice, moles, the occasional baby rabbit, only the very occasional bird. And I watched said cats gobble up all sorts of insects like they were candy.

The number of birds killed by cats is likely much lower than the Audubon folks would like you to believe. The quoted number is based on extrapolation not on scientific observation.

 

[RunningBum]

We have had 3 indoor/outdoor cats and we have had them all more than 10 years and our current cat is over 10 years old and still going strong. I would not accept a cat through your shelter as I would never agree to not let our cat outside. Cats are hunters and need to get exercise. IMO to keep them cooped up inside is extremely cruel.

Well, that's your opinion, and one not widely shared by experts. My cats stay inside where they won't pick up diseases, run over by cars (they aren't nearly as good as dogs about getting out of the way), get preyed upon by larger animals, get in fights with other cats or animals, and so on. Might help my health too as they aren't bringing in fleas and ticks. I try to give them activities and room for exercise. I'm sure they'd get more on their own outside but mine are at a really good weight. "Extremely cruel"? Hardly.

 

[Aerides]

I do believe keeping them indoors keeps them safer, and if we were deciding on lack of cruelty and freedom as more important than healthy longevity, then we'd not be spaying and neutering either and that would be bad for everyone.

Of course, I think that some areas for outdoor freedom are worse than others. If you live on a farm, great. In dense suburbs or city, not so much.

"My" cats are all ferals that I take care of - Mama showed up in my back yard a few years ago with a couple of kittens. I've had them all fixed, vaccinated, etc., but there's zero chance I can convert them to full time indoor cats. The youngest does like to sleep on my couch in the daytime, but that's all, the other two I can't even touch. They are all older than statistics say to expect for feral cats, but I dread the day they don't show up for breakfast...

They do kill birds on occasion. I hate that, but birds are victims far less than rats, moles, lizards.

 

[Amethyst]

I'm in the middle on the very important topic of where to keep the cat. If the cat is willing to stay indoors, I say keep it indoors; it is safer for the animal. Still, a grown indoor cat tends (in my experience) to be more passive and boring than one that runs around a bit outside.

Now, if you have an aggressive, I-want-OUT hunter like the cat I used to have, he will find ways to get out, including hiding under the sofa and bursting out to dash between your legs the instant you open the door. So in that case, may as well get putty his shots, let putty take his chances and be happy.

Well, that's your opinion, and one not widely shared by experts. My cats stay inside where they won't pick up diseases, run over by cars (they aren't nearly as good as dogs about getting out of the way), get preyed upon by larger animals, get in fights with other cats or animals, and so on. Might help my health too as they aren't bringing in fleas and ticks. I try to give them activities and room for exercise. I'm sure they'd get more on their own outside but mine are at a really good weight. "Extremely cruel"? Hardly.

 

[RunningBum]

I'm not far from the middle either, though I've chosen to keep mine indoors. I do let mine on the upper deck (no ground access) when I grill, and even on the front porch with close supervision. If someone wants to let their's roam, that's fine with me as long as it's been fixed and doesn't add to the feral cat population. The "extremely cruel" comment was what set me off.

 

[Amethyst]

Where we lived in Great Britain, people do consider it cruel to keep cats indoors. Cruel is the actual word they use. I even got scolded for letting a cat back into the flat tower where we lived (the cat had clearly, if non-verbally, requested to be let in), after the owners had put it out. Unfortunately, many people in that town let their cats run free in the street, where they are routinely squashed by cars.

I'm not far from the middle either, though I've chosen to keep mine indoors. I do let mine on the upper deck (no ground access) when I grill, and even on the front porch with close supervision. If someone wants to let their's roam, that's fine with me as long as it's been fixed and doesn't add to the feral cat population. The "extremely cruel" comment was what set me off.

 

[ABQ2015]

Since most of my eight cats over the years were abandoned strays or a friend's cat who had been allowed to go outside, I raised them as indoor/outdoor cats. Two of the eight disappeared at a few years of age - one probably due to a predator as the drought was bad at the time and other pets in the neighborhood were also reported missing. My other cats lived until their teens and died of the usual old cat stuff. A few have been aggressive hunters including my current cat who is thirteen and eats most of her prey. I put a bell on her collar, don't feed the birds, etc. She is slowing down on the hunting but not as much as I would like.

 

[Totoro]

I think the recent reports about cats being very ferocious wildlife killers is what is setting people off to keep em indoors in the US?
New Research Suggests Outdoor Cats Kill More Wildlife Than Previously Thought

In most European countries I've been or lived you would a get very concerned look at a minimum for not letting your cat out if its want to. Except for the first few days in a new home ...

And I agree with them too. Just like a dog (or human) shouldn't be alone all the time, a cat should have the option to roam free. You're just making it unhappy and stressed out if you block that behavior.

 

[RunningBum]

I think the recent reports about cats being very ferocious wildlife killers is what is setting people off to keep em indoors in the US?

Go back and re-read my post #27. Those are my reasons. Or why I've been "set off" since you seem to prefer to frame it in a bad light.

 

[braumeister]

We have lived for decades on the outer edge of an urban area. Our cats have always been indoor/outdoor cats, and have happily survived until their late teens with very few issues beyond the occasional catfight (easily treated at home) or skunk encounter (ditto, but not much fun for anyone).

We had one cat who would march right up to a deer, get nose to nose, and stare it down until the deer moved off. Another cat loved to play with young foxes.

They have thoroughly enjoyed their freedom to get outdoors, and we have been happy to allow it. They get their shots, of course, and vet visits as needed, but I tend to agree with pb4uski that indoor/outdoor can be a very good option if you're in the right kind of neighborhood.

I do understand and appreciate the reasoning put forward by those who advocate keeping them always indoors, but our experience shows that (surprise!) YMMV.

 

[meierlde]

With the increasing area where coyotes and coydogs (coyote dog hybrids) and coywolves live, cats face a more dangerous outside. Many reports say that a cat makes a nice lunch for a coyote or relative. For example my sister had an elderly poodle killed by a coyote a couple of years ago. If a coyote can kill a poodle a cat would be a breeze to kill. Since coyotes have figured out how to live with humans, they spread, every so often you see reports of coyotes in Manhattan for example.

 

[euro]

For one thing, birds can fly, and cats can't. There's a reason why we can hear the many birds on our heavily-treed property, but seldom see them except when they zip from tree to tree.

I love birds, but have never understood why some people get all riled up specifically about cats killing birds - considering the dangerous life that all wild birds lead, constantly in peril from other (predatory) birds, foxes and other predators, including even some humans.

The indoor/outdoor cats I have known, brought their catches home to display: field mice, moles, the occasional baby rabbit, only the very occasional bird. And I watched said cats gobble up all sorts of insects like they were candy.

+1
All of our indoor/outdoor cats we have had have lived past 15 years old and have hunted rodents and insects much, much more than birds.

 

[euro]

With the increasing area where coyotes and coydogs (coyote dog hybrids) and coywolves live, cats face a more dangerous outside. Many reports say that a cat makes a nice lunch for a coyote or relative. For example my sister had an elderly poodle killed by a coyote a couple of years ago. If a coyote can kill a poodle a cat would be a breeze to kill. Since coyotes have figured out how to live with humans, they spread, every so often you see reports of coyotes in Manhattan for example.

I bet the average poodle is way easier to catch for a coyote than the average cat. Once caught, I agree, it's probably even

 

[Sunset]

With the increasing area where coyotes and coydogs (coyote dog hybrids) and coywolves live, cats face a more dangerous outside. Many reports say that a cat makes a nice lunch for a coyote or relative. For example my sister had an elderly poodle killed by a coyote a couple of years ago. If a coyote can kill a poodle a cat would be a breeze to kill. Since coyotes have figured out how to live with humans, they spread, every so often you see reports of coyotes in Manhattan for example.

We had coyote pups under our backyard deck, very cute just like playful kittens. Naturally I looked all around before going on the back deck as I didn't want to walk into the parent coyotes.

Our neighbor reported seeing a coyote holding her tiny dog in it's mouth one morning before dropping it as the neighbor screamed.

We put out a radio to make the coyote's move away so the neighborhood could be peaceful.

We don't live in the country.

 

[Another Reader]

I'm on the edge of suburbia with cattle a couple of blocks up the hill. Last week I cleaned the cat boxes and dumped the contents into the garbage can on the driveway in front of the house. Next morning there was a pile of coyote scat next to the garbage can. Guess the coyote was annoyed he followed the scent and there was no meal when he got to the source.

A couple of years ago, a resident on the last street at the top of the hill went out in her robe with her two small dogs to get the paper around six AM. A mountain lion strolled up the side street, crossed her street, and jumped over the fence into her neighbor's back yard.

I have lost a few cats over the almost 30 years I have lived here. Mostly outdoor semi-ferals that were born in the neighborhood and I fed and fixed. Two of mine lived outside before I got them. They would destroy the house if they could not get outside. The compromise is they go out when it is fully light and people are about and they come in before dark.

 

[pb4uski]

Well, that's your opinion, and one not widely shared by experts. My cats stay inside where they won't pick up diseases, run over by cars (they aren't nearly as good as dogs about getting out of the way), get preyed upon by larger animals, get in fights with other cats or animals, and so on. Might help my health too as they aren't bringing in fleas and ticks. I try to give them activities and room for exercise. I'm sure they'd get more on their own outside but mine are at a really good weight. "Extremely cruel"? Hardly.

And you are entitled to your opinion too and to keep your poor cat cooped up inside since you wish to. And to be brutally honest, i don't care a rat's a$$ what the supposed experts.... especially the Sierra Club.

 

[pb4uski]

We have coyotes and coydogs around here too... we can sometimes hear them at night in the summer but they tend to avoid the areas where our houses are and are more up in the uninhabited woods. Many years ago in our old neighborhood we lost a couple of older cats... we think to a fox that was later killed... so we are well aware of the hazards of letting out cats outdoors. Also, some neighbors have recently lost cats... we think to a neighborhood owl but that is just a guess. As a result, we are now trying to make sure our cat is in about dark. Amazingly, he actually usually comes when DW calls him.

But I am still willing to take the risk rather than see him cooped up all day inside.

 

[Brat]

When we lived in Bainbridge Island the wildlife folks once took a look at an eagle's nest and found 20+ cat collars.

Small dogs and cats are prey for eagles, hawks and owls.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

PETA has quite a bit on their site about humans being the biggest predator to cats. They have had reports of cats being rounded up and sold for research, skinned for fur, used as bait in dog fights and all sorts of scary stuff done to them. They also recommend cats be kept inside or outside under supervision, or outside with a product called Cat Fence In, a mesh barrier that goes on top of a regular fence that keeps cats inside a yard:

Animal Rights Uncompromised: Outdoor Cat | Cruel Practices | Companion Animals | The Issues | PETA

or outdoor enclosures for cats:

http://www.peta.org/living/companion-animals/caring-animal-companions/caring-cats/indoor-cats/

 

[pb4uski]

Yup. PETA's credibility is right up there with the Sierra Club in my book.

 

[MBAustin]

Folks, let's keep it friendly, please.

 

[Just_Steve]

Yup. PETA's credibility is right up there with the Sierra Club in my book.

 

[nwsteve]

OP here-the indoor/outdoor debate has proved to be interesting. For the record I am with PB4uski. When we pick up our cat from the vets after being boarded for a few days, he so lethargic and indifferent, you can tell his "spirit" has been materially repressed. I know, I know better repressed than dead but that is a debate for another thread.
NOW, back to the original question--what recommendations are there regarding the actual cat door?? Couple of helpful remarks on chip versions and the like. I was hoping for helpful tips about location and installation as well as brands.
Thanks
Nwsteve

 

[MichaelB]

So much for friendly discussion on cat doors.
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