Challenge: Stabilize the Debt

[FinanceDude]

The problem is not big government or small government, it's dumb government. We had replaced discourse over the quality of government with sound bites designed to appeal to the devoted ignorant voters. Look at the screaming over schools. It must be the unions and the high pay and pensions. But in Germany the teachers are highly paid, heavily unionized and get fabulous pensions. But the students do very well. In Britain the teachers are heavily unionized, have lower salaries and the students don't do as well. Private schools for the elite are common in the UK and rare in Germany. In the USA you can get people foaming at the mouth about teachers. Good efficient government takes smart people and hard work, not slogans. In my youth I spent some time studying military procurement and why societies bought weapons that did not work or were unsuited to the task at hand. Ive looked at a wide variety of public and private and mixed procurement systems. It was hard to find a common thread, but in the main it seemed to come down to brainpower. Countries that insisted on top flight weapon designers and paid attention to their advice on averaged did the best. Those who want to sneer at government design and procurement should study the T-34 tank.

So the key is getting top people, not chanting slogans.

And all their govts are basically broke, choking on a ton of publice entitlements that they can't pay for............I don't think that in the USA teachers have low salaries, it's market driven like any economy, except that teacher's unions do a good job of getting them merit increases even as the states go broke..........

As a disclaimer, both my parents are retired teachers, and enjoy pensions and good healthcare. However, both of them understand the system is broken and were never ones to strike or criticize their administration when times got rough.........

 

[Emeritus]

What is the definition of an elite?

It is a word derived from Latin, interestingly enough used in
English
French: élite
German: Elite
Spanish: élite

It has about the same meaning in all these languages. It means the small group that are considered "elect" whether in social power, skill money or any other scalable characteristic.

The UK has a socioeconomic "elite" that tends to shun the government schools. This has a variety of effects, many of which are widely debated.

 

[Emeritus]

And all their govts are basically broke, choking on a ton of publice entitlements that they can't pay for............I don't think that in the USA teachers have low salaries, it's market driven like any economy, except that teacher's unions do a good job of getting them merit increases even as the states go broke..........

As a disclaimer, both my parents are retired teachers, and enjoy pensions and good healthcare. However, both of them understand the system is broken and were never ones to strike or criticize their administration when times got rough.........

Germany and the United States are actually very similar in national debt, depending on how you look at the numbers.

As to teacher pay there is a very goo OECD analysis at
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/39/62/1840245.pdf

one of the key differences is the low number of contracted hours German teachers have to work compared to the USA.

 

[samclem]

Those who want to sneer at government design and procurement should study the T-34 tank.

?? What would we compare it to--all those tanks built and operated by the private sector and not to government specs?

But, the T-34 was a very good tank, at least better than almost any of the other (government-designed or government-procured) tanks fielded by other countries. It was built for the government of the Soviet Union, a country that produced perhaps the developed world's worst consumer goods. And a country that no longer exists, left in the dust by other countries with smaller governments and free markets. In the end, I'm not sure we can find much support here for the effectiveness of governmental central planning and program execution.

 

[Emeritus]

?? What would we compare it to--all those tanks built and operated by the private sector and not to government specs?

But, the T-34 was a very good tank, at least better than almost any of the other (government-designed or government-procured) tanks fielded by other countries. It was built for the government of the Soviet Union, a country that produced perhaps the developed world's worst consumer goods. And a country that no longer exists, left in the dust by other countries with smaller governments and free markets. In the end, I'm not sure we can find much support here for the effectiveness of governmental central planning and program execution.

I believe you miss my point, but I'll try again. There is simply nothing "magical" about chanting a mantra of public or private. The soviet Union was a poor country that had suffered foreign invasion. The government was largely incompetent. But in every case success or failure depends on putting good people and adequate resources on a job, not describing it as public or private.

 

[samclem]

But in every case success or failure depends on putting good people and adequate resources on a job, not describing it as public or private.

Would you say that governments have a better or worse record than private enterprise in 1) efficiently allocating resources to the most productive use and 2) getting "good people" in the right positions (given their limited numbers).

 

[Emeritus]

Would you say that governments have a better or worse record than private enterprise in 1) efficiently allocating resources to the most productive use and 2) getting "good people" in the right positions (given their limited numbers).

That is roughly like asking for the comparison between shirts and shoes.

(1) depnds entirely on your definition of productivity e.g. The Panama canal is an excellent example of 19th century government at work and arguably at a fairly high level of efficiency. Whether it was productive or not is a good question.

(2) I think most analyses of the VA heath care system consider it a model of cost effectiveness, especially when you compare it to the total cost of running comparable private insurance and health care systems.

The VA -- Best Care Anywhere (an update) | Gooznews

 

[Independent]

I agree with fewer dollars on the table
However as a percentage of the investment, the small business owner is looking at ROI as much as the total number (I think).

If there was 250k of money (profit) being taxed...
and the cost of hiring someone was 50k, the anticipated increase in revenue would be measured against the 250k vs the 50k (IMO). If I have to spend 50k to add 10k onto the table, might not be worth the risk... where as if I have to spend 50k to add 50k to the table, that might be enough return to justify the risk of hiring.

One way for government to help (or not hurt) is to keep the cost of hiring low (lower SS/medicare taxes and lower taxes on the additional profit). Much of the cost of hiring is in the unemployment side of things (disability and unemployment insurance and in extending Cobra and similar programs for the unemployed) as these actions increase the costs of hiring even when the employee is no longer working.

Maybe it would help if you put some numbers on both the benefits and the the risk side and showed the before- and after- tax results. The way I see it, the "risk" that you talk about is lower because of taxes.

I view SS/medicare taxes as being transferred to employees via lower wages. I've done compensation for people who could work as employees or independent contrators, both the company and the workers automatically assumed SS/medicare would be reflected as differences in cash compensation. So I don't see them as impacting hiring (exception would be some short term, targeted program with lots of paperwork).

I can understand that unemployment benefits increase the risk of hiring to the extent that the particular state does experience ratings. But the original post on this dealt with income taxes on profits, and that's where I've been. Income taxes reduce the risk created by unemployment insurance, just like they reduce the benefit of successfully hiring someone.

 

[dex]

It is a word derived from Latin, interestingly enough used in
English
French: élite
German: Elite
Spanish: élite

It has about the same meaning in all these languages. It means the small group that are considered "elect" whether in social power, skill money or any other scalable characteristic.

The UK has a socioeconomic "elite" that tends to shun the government schools. This has a variety of effects, many of which are widely debated.

How do I go about researching the number of 'elite' in the UK?

Or do you know the number/% of 'elite' families/people in the UK?

 

[Emeritus]

How do I go about researching the number of 'elite' in the UK?

Or do you know the number/% of 'elite' families/people in the UK?

OFGS
It's not like blood type
you define it you don't find it
The number varies with the definition.

 

[FinanceDude]

OFGS
It's not like blood type
you define it you don't find it
The number varies with the definition.

That's a little vague..........

 

[Emeritus]

That's a little vague..........

The concept that idea of "definition" may be vague to some folks does not surprise me in the slightest. I'm a taxonomist in the law. Reification describes the problem of people confusing definitions with reality. The concept that Saddam Hussein had "weapons of mass destruction" depends entirely on the definition that is used.

 

[dex]

OFGS
It's not like blood type
you define it you don't find it
The number varies with the definition.

What is number according to your definition?

 

[Emeritus]

Understatement of the day...

There are many problems, even with programs "we" "like". Government IT systems are woefully inadequate, don't [-]play[/-] talk well with other pertinent systems, and would be costly upfront to update, even if more efficient in the long run. Hard to know where the waste is if you don't know where the money went...

Don't worry, the responsible companies will grease enough membrs of congress that somehow the blame will dropped on somebody else and teh gravy train will continue