Check stolen in the mail and cashed by thief

[harllee]

Back in October DH did several Qualified Charitable Distributions (QCDs) from his Vanguard IRA. The way it works at Vanguard is that Vanguard mailed the checks payable to the charity to DH and he was responsible for getting the checks to the charity. DH received the checks to the charities in October and mailed them to the various charities by putting in the mailbox at our local post office. All the checks were received by the charities except a $2000 one--we got a statement from that charity in January and it did not reflect the $2000 gift. We contacted the charity and they searched all over but said they had not received the check.

In January DH contacted Vanguard to see if the check had been cashed. It is hard to get through to Vanguard these days, he tried both email and phone. At first Vanguard said the check had not been cashed and so we asked that that check be cancelled and a new check issued. Just today Vanguard lets DH know that the check had in fact been cashed and sent us a copy of the check. The endorsement on the check is an obvious forgery. We assume the check was stolen in the mail somehow, somewhere.

So DH is now filing a police report, a report with the postal service and a claim with Vanguard fraud department asking that the money be restored to DH's account since the check was fraudulently cashed.

Any advice?

What a pain. Moral of the story--never, never mail a check through the USPS.

 

[Sunset]

It's rampant here around Chicago. On the evening news. They even break open the blue mailboxes when they don't have keys for it.

Yes, some criminals have keys for the mailboxes so they can easily open them.

I went to the post office today to drop mail off inside the building. Won't trust the mailbox outside the post office as some of those have been attacked.

 

[aja8888]

Blue mailboxes at our P.O. are routinely robbed. They have advised people not to use them but to come inside and drop the mail off in person.

 

[Dtail]

Damn. I leave the occasional check in my mailbox for pickup.

 

[harllee]

Since 5 checks were mailed in the same blue mailbox and only one did not make it, I do not think the check was stolen from the blue box. There have been no reports of that happening in my town. I think it happened somewhere else. Maybe even stolen from the charity's mail box--the charity in question has a mailbox and not a Post office box. But I get the message to not use the Post Office mail boxes. In fact I am not going to use the Post office for anything important anymore--I will have to figure out other means.

 

[aja8888]

Since 5 checks were mailed in the same blue mailbox and only one did not make it, I do not think the check was stolen from the blue box. There have been no reports of that happening in my town. I think it happened somewhere else. Maybe even stolen from the charity's mail box--the charity in question has a mailbox and not a Post office box. But I get the message to not use the Post Office mail boxes. In fact I am not going to use the Post office for anything important anymore--I will have to figure out other means.

We have a lot of trouble here with the postal system and the people who deliver the mail. SO much so that a group of my neighbors went to visit the local Postmaster to lodge a complaint, which went unresolved. What we have done is convert ALL our bills to electronic payment, any checks written are brought to the main post office for mailing, and all prescriptions are picked up in person at a local pharmacy.

Today I just paid my gas credit card and local water bill online.

 

[Walt34]

This may get even more complicated. The forged signature on the back of the check is that of the person at the charity who is authorized to deposit them. Vanguard may rightfully insist that an affidavit of forgery be completed and mailed to them by that person, whereupon the original check will be "bounced back" to whoever cashed it. (This is why when you cash a check the bank seemingly wants to know who your great-grandmother was and did she have an account there.) When Vanguard knows that this is happening, or after it has happened, then they will issue another check.

At least that's the was it worked 20 years ago when I was still working.

 

[braumeister]

I'm surprised that Vanguard's service is still so lacking.

When I make a QCD from a Fidelity IRA, I just tell them who it's going to and they mail the check directly.

Just another reason why I'm glad I left Vanguard years ago.

 

[harllee]

This may get even more complicated. The forged signature on the back of the check is that of the person at the charity who is authorized to deposit them. Vanguard may rightfully insist that an affidavit of forgery be completed and mailed to them by that person, whereupon the original check will be "bounced back" to whoever cashed it. (This is why when you cash a check the bank seemingly wants to know who your great-grandmother was and did she have an account there.) When Vanguard knows that this is happening, or after it has happened, then they will issue another check.

At least that's the was it worked 20 years ago when I was still working.

The charity says that he signature on the back of the check does not belong to anyone at the charity. The charity uses a stamp for deposit only on the back of the check. The signature is just an illegible scrawl and we have no idea who the signature belongs to. The charity says they will gladly sign an affidavit that the signature is not theirs.

 

[harllee]

I'm surprised that Vanguard's service is still so lacking.

When I make a QCD from a Fidelity IRA, I just tell them who it's going to and they mail the check directly.

Just another reason why I'm glad I left Vanguard years ago.

Yes, I am wondering about Vanguard too. I have been with them most of my adult life (at least 40 years) and service has definitely gone down hill. But I actually like getting the QCD checks--DH wrote each charity a hand written letter.
I still don't see how having a check mailed directly from Vanguard (or Fidelity) would prevent the problem of a check stolen in the mail. In my opinion the safe way would be a transfer directly from the IRA account to the bank account of the charity, no mailing at all. I don't know of any institution doing that.

 

[sengsational]

If I had to guess, I'd say it could just have likely been an 'inside job' at the charity as it could be theft from while the check was in the possession of the USPS.

Presumably the check was made out to the charity, but deposited in some other person's bank account. Vanguard might have been long to respond, but once they give you the image of the check, it's not their problem. Well, if they were "nice", they'd help you interpret the values on the check to tell you the bank that accepted the check, but they're probably not "required" to do that.

I've always relied on the presumption that the bank that accepts the check will pull the funds from the account it was deposited to if there's ever a challenge. So challenge is where you need to go from here. Call the bank, send them a copy of the check and say it was fraud. The bank that accepted the fraudulently deposited check should reverse the transaction and the amount should show up back at Vanguard.

 

[gauss]

I suspect that you will be made whole in all of this. Personally I would not write of the US Mail due to one incident that may or may not have been related to the USPS. This would be like swearing off credit cards when one of them is compromised. Sure it would be a valid individual response, but IMHO, it would be overly constraining.

FWIW I like the ability to get a cancelled check from my bank in order to clearly prove payment to any vendor that posts a check to an incorrect account.

-gauss

 

[NW-Bound]

This may get even more complicated. The forged signature on the back of the check is that of the person at the charity who is authorized to deposit them. Vanguard may rightfully insist that an affidavit of forgery be completed and mailed to them by that person, whereupon the original check will be "bounced back" to whoever cashed it...

What if the account where the check was deposited had been closed? Who will take the loss?

For $2000, the police may not bother to track down the account owner. As terrible as this theft may sound, the police are busy with murders and mayhems that are a lot worse.

 

[iloveyoga]

I suspect that you will be made whole in all of this.

-gauss

From my many years of working at a financial services company I would agree that you will be made whole one way or the other. Especially for $2000 that was going to a charity.

 

[Janet H]

A few years ago I wrote a check for about $800.00 for a CC payment and it was stolen in a mail theft. Fortunately I got a call from the local PD who had stopped a speeder and found the car knee deep in opened mail including mine and they alerted me. I was able to stop payment on the check before it hit the bank but that's where the mess began.

My check had been altered and used to purchased about $150.00 of goods at walmart and then the clerk paid out the difference in cash. This happened near the end of the month. Security footage at the register had been over written as they recycled the tapes at the end of each month (dumb). Accepting the check ran afoul of walmarts procedures, paying out a cash difference also did and so did over writing the security footage. Still, it became my problem.

Since I had stopped payment on the check, walmart tried to collect the amount of the check from me. It took months to get this cleaned up and walmart stayed busy sending increasingly aggressive collection letters. I had to get certified copies of police reports, statements from involved parties, etc. Then I had to get my credit reports cleaned up which took another few months.

 

[MichaelB]

I had a check cashed that was not received by the legitimate payee. My bank at the time was WF. They weren’t easy to work with but eventually refunded the money.

As long as it is correctly reported the bank that accepted the fraud check is liable, but it’s up to the issuing bank to pursue. OP needs to assure full compliance with the fraud reporting procedures. There’s a time limit, it needs to be in writing and there’s probably a specific department and address that must be used. An affidavit will need to be filed.

I would expect Vanguard to replace without delay or difficulty once the fraud has been established.

 

[CardsFan]

OP seems very quick to blame USPS. Why? All the other checks got delivered. This one probably did too. It did not go "missing". Someone stole it and cashed it. Most likely on the receiving end.

 

[RetMD21]

Although I don't personally mail checks, I like to pay by e-check from my bank. I have noticed that 80% of them end up being converted to paper and mailed. Is the bank to business part of the process going to be modernized?

 

[ivinsfan]

Well just my opinion but I would absolutely no longer donate to that charity. This sounds sketchy as heck. Think about it, a check that doesn't go to pay a bill gets "stolen" and cashed. Since you aren't getting contacted by a creditor that wants their money as far as you're concerned it's all good.


Could it be the mail person ...
maybe but I'm betting on someone inside that charity.


At our bank to get cash for a check,




if you aren't an account holder you need a picture government ID and they take your





thumbprint. I assume they also look to see if your name was on the check





we have a Farm (insert name) Business printed check with the two owners name printed directly on the checks as well.


Say we get a 300 dollar check for returning a bag of seed corn and it says Farm Business, neither owner can cash that check. If you want cash you have to deposit the check and then write another check out to cash.



Just move on to another worthy charity. A good chance someone on the inside is pilfering donations and putting them directly in their checking account. Perhaps and employee that left and didn't care about the annual statement...who knows.


Reminds of the stories of theft from a business when the owner says I thought they were a great employee they didn't miss a day of work in 5 years.

 

[pb4uski]

...Moral of the story--never, never mail a check through the USPS.

That is scary... do you realize the volume of commerce that is conducted via US mail?

Is it possible to determine what bank and bank account the check was deposited to? If so, is that account still open? Who owns it? Follow the money.

IIRC Walt spent some of his career chasing criminals like this. And if they can catch them the prosecutor might be able to add federal mail fraud to the charges.

 

[ivinsfan]

That is scary... do you realize the volume of commerce that is conducted via US mail?

Is it possible to determine what bank and bank account the check was deposited to? If so, is that account still open? Who owns it? Follow the money.

IIRC Walt spent some of his career chasing criminals like this. And if they can catch them the prosecutor might be able to add federal mail fraud to the charges.

The bank involved isn't going to give you any information..after all they F'ed up. I disagree about mail safety,I think it's plenty safe.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I mail checks through USPS all day long and have never had a problem nor thought it could be a problem. I would not point a finger at USPS for this incident.

 

[savory]

Our issue was not related to theft but the charity we sent it to did not recognize the 'client'. the check was sent by Fidelity through an IRA. I guess the charity thought this was some type of payment or some other confusion was happening at their office. They returned the check.

Once we learned the check was returned and we understood the problem, we called the organization and told them they will be receiving a check from Fidelity and it is a donation from us. The second time appears to be a charm.

 

[yakers]

After having TWO checks washed in a couple years (and one was RE tax!) I now only mail checks personnally at a USPS office never a mail box. I filed claims with the USPS and local law enforcement but once the bank eventually assumed the loss (or recovered?) I could learn nothing more. I asked the bank and LE why this was happening, I grew up in a sh!t part of Chicago and this didn't happen. They said its because its so easy to do and often the bank does not feel it is worth pursuing.

 

[CRLLS]

What a horrible event. We've never had a check stolen. I can't imagine what it would take to get it cleared up. In a transaction I was dealing with a few years back, my bank told me there is no payment method that can not be reversed if fraud has taken place.

Now a related question for all you tax experts out there. I am curious. Can the OP still claim the donation on his taxes? He sent the money in good faith. The charity did not receive it. Just wondering.