College Football 2021

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Agreed. Having the talent is required, but poor coaching (Fla State), poor oversight (USC) and culture can keep that talent from achieving on the field.

I would add that Fla State has not recruited at an elite level recently. They have no 5* on their roster currently and their composite is barely top 20.

And Texas seems to be in its own category as a perennial underachiever, possibly due to culture.

Having said that, you don't see programs that lack talent achieving at a high level. You see teams like Bama, tOSU, Ga, and Clemson. Those teams are the top4 in composite talent.
 
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It's not a simple answer to just say that you have to have the best recruits to win a championship. There's a whole lot more to it, much of it due to the financial resources of power 5 schools.

Those resources mean that the schools can spend more on things like training facilities and nutrition. And they can hire the best coaches. Coaches who win at Group of 5 schools almost always have much more money thrown at them to jump to a Power 5 school. Not just head coaches, but assistants. Sometimes those moves work, sometimes not, but clearly the more resources you have, they more you can develop players. And those resources also attract the best players, so they are developing already talented players.

And there have been unbeaten teams in the Group of 5 who may have been good enough to win a championship, but weren't given a chance. There have been people in this thread who say that Cincinnati doesn't deserve a shot this year. In past years those teams have pretty much been shut out of playoff and championship games, so it's not correct to say they didn't win the championship because they lacked talent; they didn't win because they didn't have the opportunity.

Unbeaten Cincinnati was left out last year, and took Georgia to the wire in their bowl game. In 2017 Central Florida went unbeaten, but had to settle with beating #7 Auburn in a bowl game. Boise St and Utah (pre-Pac12) also had unbeaten teams who did well in at least a couple New Year's bowl games when given a chance. BSU beat Oklahoma with the famous "Statue of Liberty" play, and Utah beat Alabama. I doubt any of those teams had 5* recruits and few 4*s.

You have to go back to BYU in 1984 to have a lower tier conference team win a championship, and that was just a weird year where nobody else stood out.

I'm not motivated enough to check recruiting rankings, but teams like 81 Clemson, 83 Miami, 90 Georgia Tech and 2010 Auburn went from low or unranked to champions. I presume the low rankings had something to do with perceived lack of talent.

The recruiting rankings are pretty suspect anyway. If a kid is getting offers from Alabama, Clemson and Notre Dame, the ranking services are going to figure he must be a 4 or 5* to get that attention. I think Texas may have fallen into this trap, where they got highly rated classes merely because the kids they recruit automatically were rated high, and they got complacent after a few really good years and either the kids they recruited really weren't that talented, or they failed to develop them. I think Saban doesn't get complacent. He and his staff must actually work to judge the talent the recruit, and they continue to develop their recruits into great players, making great teams.

Tom Osborne at Nebraska (my alma mater) was like this too. It's hard to get the very best HS talent to come to Nebraska, so he surrounded the few he got with 3* kids who he judged to have a big upside and the willingness to make the most out of their talent. And he surrounded them with a walk on program that developed a couple of stars and a bunch of valuable role players. Not every Osborne team was great (3 championships and 3 more that would've been if not for the bowl loss), but in 25 years they never lost more than 3 games.
 
Teams without elite talent do not win championships.

The ability to recruit elite talent is a proxy for all the other things you mention. You don't get elite talent without facilities. You don't get elite talent without good coaches. So saying talent matters is not the same as saying facilities and coaching do not matter. I really think we are agreeing here.

Winning at the G5 level is not the same as winning in power 5.

Opponents matter, to state the obvious. And teams that do not schedule, play, and defeat the better teams have no claim to overall excellence.

Most of the G5 teams you cite did not play tough schedules. But on any given day the better team that day will win. That may not always be the better team overall. There are upsets, that's what makes it exciting.

Of the teams you cited I think Utah in 2004 is the only team proven to be seriously good. They had Alex Smith (played 16 seasons in NFL) at QB, a mostly unknown fellow named Urban Meyer as head football coach, and a then largely unknown innovation called the "zone read". A fellow named Dan Mullen was the QB coach. They blew teams out, they didn't just win. Cincinnati is not similar. And Smith went #1 in the NFL draft, a generational talent. This confluence of events has not repeated.
 
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Talent matters, probably more than anything else. But it's not a hard requirement to win. Lately it has been, because Saban has put together such a monster that it takes another team with great talent to beat them. That will change, but probably not until Saban steps down, or stays too long to have the energy to keep Bama at that level. After that, I think the talent will be more spread out, and those with the most talent won't be as well-coached, so a lesser talented team will have a better chance.

I was going to write up something about the 95 Huskers team as an example but this Texas-based writer covers it better than I could. http://sportstreatise.com/2018/01/1995-nebraska-and-the-myth-of-championship-recruiting/ He estimates that the starting offense would be rated 2.8* and the defense 3.2*, yet it's considered one of the very best teams of all time. At the time, even though Nebraska had just one very close loss (94 Orange Bowl to heavily favored FSU), and the core of those teams back in 95, most sportswriters figured they couldn't keep up with Florida's fun-n-gun offense. Nebraska 62, Florida 24, and it could've been worse.

Not sure what to say about your statements regarding the Group of 5's lack of talent, but you won't even give them a chance because of schedule. I can't really disagree with either statement but it makes it nearly impossible for them to overcome. It's the flaw in college football. So many teams, but so few playoff spots. You could expand the playoffs, but that would increase the randomness that the best team might not win, much like basketball. Byes and home field advantage in early rounds would help.
 
Why are so many players (mostly defensive backs, it seems), playing with mouthpieces dangling rather than protecting their teeth? I think they may be required equipment, but don't have to be worn correctly. But why risk chipping or losing teeth, or cutting the inside of your mouth?

Maybe I never really paid attention but I don't remember seeing this much before this bowl season.
 
Bama vs Cincinnati

I'm looking forward to the matchup Friday - I've only saw the Bearcats once this year play Houston in the conference championship this year. They are impressive both offensively and defensively and I think it will be a good game.

With Bama losing Metchie, someone will have to step up but they do have some talent. I think Jameson Williams will have a chip on his shoulder because he wasn't picked as the best receiver in college. Bama's defense has been questionable all year but impressive at the Georgia game.

I don't think the Bearcats have seen the speed on the outside or this kind of strength upfront and same thing on the defense. I look for Will Anderson to showcase his talent. It's like you take a piece of bologna throw it on the ground and the fire ants swarm in a few seconds - that's how it gonna be. :2funny:

Bama has an advantage in the kicking game and if you give Coach Saban two weeks to prepare they are gonna be hard to beat.

Bama 38-28.....I think -13.5 is too much.

Roll Tide
 
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RunningBum said:
You could expand the playoffs, but that would increase the randomness that the best team might not win, much like basketball. Byes and home field advantage in early rounds would help.
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And what's the prob with that? It's what I and many other CFB fans want, a chance for a hot team to win every year. With the way it is now it's very rare.

Few folks other than their own fans want to see AL, OSU etc. get in and win every year or two. I get that they deserve it, but other good teams just outside the top 4 never get a shot. The system is rigged against the non-P5's and it's a good thing that some good G5's are now moving into P5 conferences.

And why wouldn't P5 conferences ACC, Big12 and Pac12 not want expanded playoffs? It's their best shot to get in now, especially with OK leaving for the SEC.
 
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I happened to watch the last part of the Tennessee/Purdue bowl game. IMO, Tennessee got screwed in overtime.

The Tennessee running back fell forward on top of an opponent... neither his knee or elbow touched the ground and the ball broke the plane of the goal line... but the refs didn't give Tennessee the touchdown because the refs allegedly blew the whistle before the ball crossed the plane thinking that the player was down... but on replay the player clearly was not down. Do they really think that the opposing players gave up immediately after hearing the whistle.

Purdue was awarded the win but didn't really win the game.

https://fansided.com/2021/12/30/music-city-bowl-refs-screw-over-tennessee/
 
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Stopped forward progress was why the play was whistled dead, not that something touched the ground. He was laying on someone and had stopped moving. Then he thought to extend the ball over, but the ref ruled the play over before he did that. Maybe it was stopped too quickly, maybe not. The runner does not get unlimited time to start moving again once he is stopped. I can see a case for either way on this play.
 
The whistle was actually well after he reached the ball across the goal line -- the announcers of the game even pointed that out during the numerous replays (and you could clearly hear the whistle during the replay). Of course, the ref claimed forward progress stopped prior to that, but to me if the whistle was not blown before the ball crossed the goal line, should have been a TD.
 
CFP Skycast

Watching the CFP playoffs, ESPN has FIVE options: All-22; Regular Broadcast; Command Center (lots of stats, 2 views simultaneously); local announcers; and Skycast.

Back in the 80's, before ESPN2,3,etc, when I lived in Montana, I was searching for a way to watch a Michigan game and found a bar with a big screen that had it. There were no announcers, but the broadcast was miked from the field. You could hear the band, the crowd, and the stadium announcer kept you informed saying who tackled who, down and distance, etc. I LOVED IT! As annoying as some of the announcers were, I thought all games would be done this way soon. I think it was some sort of subscription thing the bar had, and I don't think the telecast even cut away for commercials, meaning you got more of an experience like you actually were at the game. Or maybe my memory is embellishing a bit-lol.

Fast forward almost 30 years, and its finally (albeit w commercials) here: Skycast. Once in a while, coming back from commercials it seems, they have announcers, but mostly just the field mike.

Almost exclusively, they use a view from behind the quarterback. When I was a kid, a friend's dad was a coach. He said the best way to watch a game was from the middle of the end zone. You get the QB's view and can see the holes open. Even better, with Skycast it's not like you're stuck 90 yards away. The camera moves downfield with the line of scrimmage, staying above and behind the QB.

The only play by play guy I really like is Gus Johnson. Other than that, I'm going Skycast for the rest of the CFP playoffs.

You ever try any of the non-regular coverages, and would you, like me, pay for a no commercial broadcast in this format?

Go Blue!
 
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Roll Tide

172 yards rushing first half? are you kidding :dance: Yeah Baby!!
 
Lakedog said:
The whistle was actually well after he reached the ball across the goal line -- the announcers of the game even pointed that out during the numerous replays (and you could clearly hear the whistle during the replay). Of course, the ref claimed forward progress stopped prior to that, but to me if the whistle was not blown before the ball crossed the goal line, should have been a TD.
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Actually, according to the article included by pb4uski, the error was that the whistle was blown early, not after he reached the ball across the line.

The whistle was blown early, thus making the fact that the Vols player wasn’t down irrelevant.
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The officials are in a tough spot when a player is stopped but being held up off the ground. If they don't blow the whistle, the defenders can pop him a good one legally. If they blow the whistle, it's always possible they're blowing it early especially if the runner does something (pops out of the scrum, reaches the ball ahead, etc.) after the whistle is blown.

Lots of versions of this story running around the Internet today. But I haven't seen/heard a video where the whistle can be clearly heard. Did you actually find one?
 
Pur ue (D missing all game) was fortunate. The forward progress obviously was not stopped, which is why the ball ended up in end zone.

Tenn has a legit beef. But you can't overturn that call because it was not reviewble (even though they went through the motions).

Of course if Tennessee volunteered to tackle game could have ended in reg. Good win for Pur ue.

Entertaining though.
 
youbet said:
Actually, according to the article included by pb4uski, the error was that the whistle was blown early, not after he reached the ball across the line.



The officials are in a tough spot when a player is stopped but being held up off the ground. If they don't blow the whistle, the defenders can pop him a good one legally. If they blow the whistle, it's always possible they're blowing it early especially if the runner does something (pops out of the scrum, reaches the ball ahead, etc.) after the whistle is blown.

Lots of versions of this story running around the Internet today. But I haven't seen/heard a video where the whistle can be clearly heard. Did you actually find one?
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Whistle blown AFTER official determind forward progress had been stopped. So the sound of the whistle actually did not matter.
 
pb4uski said:
Purdue was awarded the win but didn't really win the game.
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I guess the correct interpretation would be that if Tenn had been awarded the TD, we don't know how the game would have worked out. In any case, the interpretation that the Tenn runner's forward motion was stopped, and that's how the ref with a clear view of the situation saw it, is reasonable. Certainly unpopular with Tenn fans of course! And Purdue went on the kick the FG, winning the game.
 
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Montecfo said:
Tenn has a legit beef.
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And if the reach-out of the ball after the runner's forward motion had apparently been stopped had been ruled a TD, then the Boilermakers would have had a legit beef. Fun for us bench-sitters to debate and laugh over! :LOL:

Lets hope the players are all healthy, getting good educations and have wonderful lives despite how their extracurricular activities are going.
 
youbet said:
And if the reach-out of the ball after the runner's forward motion had apparently been stopped had been ruled a TD, then the Boilermakers would have had a legit beef. Fun for us bench-sitters to debate and laugh over! :LOL:

Lets hope the players are all healthy, getting good educations and have wonderful lives despite how their extracurricular activities are going.
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+1

Yes good to keep it in perspective. Both teams played a very entertaining game which unfortunately one team had to lose.
 
Beststash said:
172 yards rushing first half? are you kidding :dance: Yeah Baby!!
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Yep, they are rolling.

Cincinnati at first looked liked they were matching up well with Alabama and able to move the ball, but the 'Bama defense has stiffened and it looks like they are wearing Cincinnati out now.
 
In the Purdue Tennessee game, the whistle was not heard until the ball was across the goal line. While the ref thought forward progress was stopped and was signalling so with his arms, the player was never down , and IMHO, upon review, the touchdown should have been awarded.

Go Blue.
 
youbet said:
Lots of versions of this story running around the Internet today. But I haven't seen/heard a video where the whistle can be clearly heard. Did you actually find one?
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Had not looked for a video as I watched the game during which they replayed the clip about a dozen times pointing out that the whistle clearly came well after the ball was reached over the goal line. Obviously this is one of those calls that is quite subjective (forward progress prior to whistle sounding) so completely up to the refs (who I'm sure are completely unbiased...)

After a quick search, here's one:

https://atozsports.com/nashville/he...bsolutely-screwed-by-the-refs-against-purdue/
 
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