Coronavirus - Health and preparedness aspects - II

[Sunset]

The US Surgeon General has urged people to stop buying masks. He said that it would dry up the supply for medical staff who need them to care for patients.

I find it surprising that suppliers do not set aside some for healthcare providers, or to give them priority over the general public. Perhaps this takes a special mandate that does not currently exist.

.....

I find it surprising that hospitals haven't already at the beginning of Feb. increased their orders by 10x, should it turn out to be not needed, they can simply reduce future orders to use up the extra.

 

[Bongleur]

My wife was actually looking at those tonight. I go into some weird houses and I can't wash my hands between each showing when I have 5 showings for a client.

If its necessary to disinfect your hands then you either wash them or wear disposable gloves. You need to make up your mind whether or not to institute infection control measures. There is no effective halfway measure.

And conservative science says it needs to be 78-80% ethanol, not 70%.

 

[Bongleur]

4 to 8 gallons per day? That's a huge volume of water.

Even when one has diarrhea, is it possible to pass that much water through the body? Ugh, that would hurt.

Another typo - LITERS. 4-8 liters per day. Wish I could edit past posts...

 

[Bongleur]

https://www.elsevier.com/connect/coronavirus-information-center?dgcid=_SD_banner#research

Welcome to Elsevier's Novel Coronavirus Information Center. Here you will find expert, curated information for the research and health community on Novel Coronavirus (also referred to as COVID-19 and its temporary title 2019-nCoV). All resources are free to access and include guidelines for clinicians and patients. Under the 'Research' tab you will find the latest early stage and peer-reviewed research from journals including The Lancet and Cell Press, as well as a link to the Coronavirus hub on ScienceDirect, where you will find every article relevant article to Coronavirus, SARS, and MERS freely available. Under the Clinical Solutions tab you will find resources for nurses, clinicians and patients, including FAQs on symptoms.
SNIP

Content hubs from other publishers

Elsevier is among various publishers who are making relevant papers freely available. Others include: Springer Nature | Wiley | NEJM | BMJ | American Society for Microbiology | Chongqing VIP Information

Many publishers have also signed the Wellcome Trust Statement committing to share relevant nCoV research and data rapidly and openly.

 

[Bongleur]

Presuming you do have an effectively high concentration of alcohol, 60 seconds is really quite a long time to maintain wet contact. Or just when washing with soap. I have some 1 minute sand timers from boardgames. You can buy them online as well.

 

[harllee]

I went to a concert last night. I decided to really try not to touch anything or my face. I did well on the not touching things--shook no hands, did not touch any door knobs, did no touch the seat arm, did not use the bathroom. But the not touching my face is VERY hard. I have allergies and something was making my nose and eyes itch and run like crazy (probably someone's perfume. ). I had to rub my nose and eyes with a tissue several times.

 

[TromboneAl]

Regarding reinfection (or relapses):

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-reinfection.html

... experts said it’s unlikely that these are cases of people getting infected a second time.

“I’m not saying that reinfection can’t occur, will never occur, but in that short time it’s unlikely,” said Florian Krammer, a virologist at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York.

Even the mildest of infections should leave at least short-term immunity against the virus in the recovering patient, he said.

More likely, the “reinfected” patients still harbored low levels of the virus when they were discharged from the hospital, and testing failed to pick it up.​

I'm guessing that true reinfection wouldn't bode well for a vaccine. Is that correct?

BTW, here's the link for the interactive map for COVID-19 infections:

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

 

[GenXguy]

Regarding reinfection (or relapses):
I'm guessing that true reinfection wouldn't bode well for a vaccine. Is that correct?

That would be a concern. But then, there's not expected to be a vaccine for a year to year and a half, at the earliest, and who knows how effective it will be when it's available.

 

[MichaelB]

That would be a concern. But then, there's not expected to be a vaccine for a year to year and a half, at the earliest, and who knows how effective it will be when it's available.

Talking about a vaccine at this point is unproductive, and also wholly speculative. More important right now is 1) prevention, and 2) diagnosis and treatment.

 

[Pellice]

As I said earlier, the coronavirus may force a reckoning for the US health care system:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/upshot/coronavirus-surprise-medical-bills.html?

This particular instance is of people mandatorily quarantined by the USG after returning from China, but it's probably expandable to un- and under-insured patients here as well. I can only hope it's not expandable to those with "good" health insurance! It was interesting that the man's employer provided health benefits while he was in China, but he has none in the US.

It's easy to imagine the bills for a hospital stay, etc., but the article pointed out there is special ambulance transportation involved, out-of-network physicians and specialists.

I have to believe the government - we taxpayers - will ultimately pick up the bills, otherwise the fallout will destroy elected officials - and the economy, if a larger number of people are involved,

 

[Sunset]

Good point about the mediclal costs, certainly it would make many people delay getting treatment until they were sure it was serious.

Even though there is no vaccine, it better be cheap otherwise people won't want to get it, and without sufficient numbers there is no herd immunity.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

4 to 8 gallons per day? That's a huge volume of water.

Even when one has diarrhea, is it possible to pass that much water through the body? Ugh, that would hurt.

Yep.

Recipe for home made hydration solution:
1 quart water
1/2 teaspoon salt
2 tablespoons sugar

Other home made recipes using Gatorade G2, Cranberry juice, etc: https://med.virginia.edu/ginutrition/wp-content/uploads/sites/199/2018/09/Homemade-Oral-Rehydration-Solutions-9-2018.pdf

Side comment: Maybe the virus will have some unintended GOOD consequences where more of the population knows how to do old fashioned emergency prep and knowledge of home made solutions.

For example (probably not needed for Corona Virus) you can easily make sterilized water (e.g. for wound irrigation) using a pressure cooker and mason jars. (How do I know this? I've made sterilized wort starters for beer using a similar technique.)

 

[Chuckanut]

In my area the public health authorities recommended that the citizens avoid crowded events and places. So, everybody went to the local Costco.

They had 50-80 foot lines outside the entrance waiting to get into the store - 12 people go out, and 12 people get to go in. Cash register lines were nearly to the back of the store for a while. Parking was unbelievably bad even for a Saturday at Costco.

So much for avoiding crowds.

I can only figure that since the first death in the USA was in the city of Kirkland (the former headquarters of Costco many years ago), all these people wanted to return their Kirkland Signature products to Costco in case there might be Coronavirus hidden in them. And, maybe pick up a 12 bottle case of Corona beer to consume 'for medicinal purposes'.

Crazy. Just Crazy.

 

[GenXguy]

In my area the public health authorities recommended that the citizens avoid crowded events and places. So, everybody went to the local Costco.

They had 50-80 foot lines outside the entrance waiting to get into the store - 12 people go out, and 12 people get to go in. Cash register lines were nearly to the back of the store for a while. Parking was unbelievably bad even for a Saturday at Costco.

So much for avoiding crowds. .

I was about to go shopping yesterday as I'm about out of some staples but decided to hold off until today because I was working on home projects. I wish I had gone. Apparently there's a case of unknown origin in my state now, so fear is probably rampant. I sure I hope I can get my milk!

 

[tulak]

Yikes. I need to head to Costco today to order tires. My online order keeps getting cancelled. I hope that the rush is over and/or it stays on the Eastside.

Maybe I’ll try their online customer service first.

Edit to add: good news. Online customer service was able to help me out. No need to go to Costco.

 

[Gumby]

I went to the grocery yesterday to get 5 gallons of spring water so I can brew some beer. If anything, traffic in the store was a little lighter than a normal Saturday and there were no shortages of stock. I suspect that will change immediately upon the first report of a case in this state.

 

[Aerides]

Just got back from Costco (florida). No lines to get in, just typical sunday busy. I normally don't go on the weekends but DH decided we might be better to prep before the panic, since we're really just stocking up on things and doing early hurricane prep.

The water area was a little congested, but nothing like we get when a storm is on the way.
No line for self-checkout.

 

[sengsational]

Nothing any different at Sam's Club on Friday, noonish. Saw one person with a mask. Then went to a nearby Walmart. I don't know if it was the style of interaction at that particular store (rarely visit this particular Walmart because it's not as nice as your average Walmart), but some people seemed to really eager to get past me; two people did it. They repeated quickly "excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me.." then zipped past me. Weird. Nothing different otherwise. Minimal checkout lines in both places.

 

[Chuckanut]

I went to the grocery yesterday to get 5 gallons of spring water so I can brew some beer. If anything, traffic in the store was a little lighter than a normal Saturday and there were no shortages of stock. I suspect that will change immediately upon the first report of a case in this state.

+1 one significant local problem and people panic.

 

[MichaelB]

+1 one significant local problem and people panic.

I see lots of reports of normal behavior. One of the advantages of being retired is not having to shop on weekends, when all the working folks are out stocking up.

 

[stepford]

I finished stocking up this morning at the local grocery store (Ralph's in Southern California). No big lines, no panic, no one wearing masks or gloves, pretty much full shelves (though a couple of notable gaps like shelf stable milk).

One thing I'm wondering is why so many folks prepping for quarantine talk about buying bottled water. Even in the most dire scenarios I've seen projected water and power will likely remain on. This is relevant to our current discussion as I've stocked up on frozen and powdered goods - a convenient choice so long as I'm correct about water and power.

 

[TromboneAl]

One thing I'm wondering is why so many folks prepping for quarantine talk about buying bottled water. Even in the most dire scenarios I've seen projected water and power will likely remain on.

I agree, and yet I bought some bottled water yesterday.

Although the risk of being without water is low, the consequences of not having any when needed are pretty dire. That is, it's something that would drive you out of your cocoon. Or maybe it's just a knee jerk thing.

For earthquake preparedness, we have containers of water (along with a bottle of bleach with instructions Sharpied onto the bottle) molding away in our shed. I should probably dump/refill them.

 

[gwraigty]

One thing I'm wondering is why so many folks prepping for quarantine talk about buying bottled water. Even in the most dire scenarios I've seen projected water and power will likely remain on. This is relevant to our current discussion as I've stocked up on frozen and powdered goods - a convenient choice so long as I'm correct about water and power.

We regularly buy bottled water, because our tap water tastes strongly of algae in the summer and it does unpleasant things to my intestines at those times. Right now, I'm drinking tap water, but my daughter thinks it tastes bad year round and it upsets her stomach, so she drinks the bottled water year round. My son and DH can drink the tap water year round without any ill effects.

Though I agree with you that I don't see the water and power going out either. Hopefully, keeping the grid up will be a priority. I haven't read any reports, so far, of other countries having issues along these lines.

 

[ivinsfan]

Why are people stocking up on bottles water for a virus threat. I don't understand this.

 

[Sunset]

...

Though I agree with you that I don't see the water and power going out either. Hopefully, keeping the grid up will be a priority. I haven't read any reports, so far, of other countries having issues along these lines.

I think water and electricity will be a priority, and a virus unlike an earthquake can't hurt the actual infrastructure.
Imagine a hospital without water or electricity, that is why it will be a priority.