COVID-19 Health and Preparedness - Strictly Moderated

[audreyh1]

Isn’t Las Vegas shutting down in general?

 

[NW-Bound]

Somewhere earlier, I shared the info on how the US has the highest number of ventilators per capita.

U.S. hospitals have a total of 160,000 ventilators — 62,000 full-featured ventilators, and 98,000 more basic ones that can be used in an emergency, according to a 2020 study by Johns Hopkins University.

And US health officials worry that we do not have enough.

Here's what I ran across regarding another country.

Britain is requesting factories to switch their production lines to make ventilators to plug the gap as coronavirus cases rise.

The country only has 5,000 ventilators, Health Secretary Matt Hancock told Sky News, adding that Britain needs “many more times that.”

He said the government is working to train more people in the National Health Service to operate them.

 

[Ronstar]

Isn’t Las Vegas shutting down in general?

Shows are, but the casinos and strip streets/ sidewalks were crowded last night.

 

[GenXguy]

On the question of food packages and other things (like library books) coming into the house--this is what I am doing based on the research I could find. I get the item on the porch using my gloved hands. Anything that needs to go into the house immediately (like foods that have to be refrigerated and produce with skins) is thoroughly cleaned with disinfectant (either disinfectant wipes or disinfectant made from alcohol, dawn dishliquid and water) and then husband who has clean hands takes those times into the house to refrigerator. Other items (food that does not need refrigeration or things like library books) is also wiped down but less thoroughly ( I only have so much disinfectant and wipes and alcohol is out in the stores so I have to ration) and those items are left on the porch (in the sun if possible) all day. I picked up $100 worth of groceries today and it took me about an hour to get them all disinfected, so it is a time consuming job but I have a lot of time now.
Any thoughts on my process?

I'm doing some of the same stuff. If there are items that I won't need to use for over a week, I won't bother disinfecting them and put them aside away from anything else because the virus won't live on surfaces. I use my trunk for all groceries and have hand sanitizer in there, so I used that before closing the trunk so that I won't contaminate my door handle, steering wheel, interior of car. But, I had to reach into my pocket to get the keys to open the trunk, so then my keys and pocket were contaminated. So, I'll have to figure out a way to address that. I haven't seen anyone mention it, but your shoes will probably be the most contaminated. When someone coughs or sneezes, most of the droplets make their way to the floor where the virus can live for hours. So, you will want to take off your shoes just inside the door when you get home, and step carefully away so that you don't spread any of the virus to your socks/feet. It's a good idea even without coronavirus. Here's some more detailed info about shoe contamination:

https://www.livescience.com/64409-should-you-take-off-shoes-indoors.html

 

[ERD50]

edit, I think I messed up my quote ref somehow, oh well, I think the reply makes general sense....

edit, here's the right quote!

Yeah, I pretty much just consider everyone I see to be a potential carrier and that I should keep my distance and don't touch anything in public unless I have to.

I think that's prudent. The way I'm looking at it, it would help keep me from getting/spreading the common cold, or flu (I've had my shot, but they aren't 100% either), so it's all good.

But being so aware of it has really made me notice just how much contact we have. The past 2 w/e, DW and I went to our favorite local micro-brewery, for beers and food from the 'pop-up' food truck.

Thin crust, quick-cooked pizza fresh out of a wood fired oven onto a cardboard serving plate seemed pretty safe. But then you have to use the pad to pay, and then we get beers handed to us by the barkeep who is also grabbing the used glasses, and you use their pen to sign (I need to make sure I carry one and sign with it). It's a lot of contact, even trying to be careful.

And I've been driving my 90 YO Aunt around, she just lost her husband, her daughter is ill, so she needs help. Again, go to the bank to help her get accounts settled, sign in, touch this, touch that, it's hard to avoid. It's a mess.

I wash/rinse my hands 2 times for about 10 seconds each. I think that's much more effective than spreading the same stuff for 20 seconds.

-ERD50

 

[Gumby]

I wash/rinse my hands 2 times for about 10 seconds each. I think that's much more effective than spreading the same stuff for 20 seconds.

-ERD50

When you wash your hands, you are mostly not physically removing the virus. Rather, the soap is actually breaking down the lipid package that the virus comes in and killing it. Here is a good article on how it works.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants

So it probably makes no difference in how you do it, so long as you do it for a total of 20 seconds.

 

[sengsational]

I'm doing some of the same stuff. If there are items that I won't need to use for over a week, I won't bother disinfecting them and put them aside away from anything else because the virus won't live on surfaces. I use my trunk for all groceries and have hand sanitizer in there, so I used that before closing the trunk so that I won't contaminate my door handle, steering wheel, interior of car. But, I had to reach into my pocket to get the keys to open the trunk, so then my keys and pocket were contaminated. So, I'll have to figure out a way to address that. I haven't seen anyone mention it, but your shoes will probably be the most contaminated. When someone coughs or sneezes, most of the droplets make their way to the floor where the virus can live for hours. So, you will want to take off your shoes just inside the door when you get home, and step carefully away so that you don't spread any of the virus to your socks/feet. It's a good idea even without coronavirus. Here's some more detailed info about shoe contamination:

https://www.livescience.com/64409-should-you-take-off-shoes-indoors.html

I also am working on a decontamination zone in the trunks of our cars. I have the supplies, I just have to rig it up so that things don't tumble around back there. I've got the decontamination zone in the laundry room (we walk through from an exterior door there), with all the materials at hand there.

I never thought about shoes. I'm now thinking about addressing this problem (for the first time). What about mixing a bleach/water solution that's enough to kill the virus, but not enough to discolor fabric your shoes might touch, and pouring it on a mat near the exterior door? Or better yet, figure out an easy way to clean your shoes before entering the passenger compartment of your car. This way, you'd only have that step when you need it (not for the case where you just go outside to get the mail or something).

 

[Kwirk]

I haven't checked recently (isolating at home) but gloves were available at Costco after other stuff was sold out. If you remove them carefully (turning them inside out and not contaminating your clean hands) then a change of gloves is about as good as a hand wash.

 

[calmloki]

Good neighbors:
Doorbell at our locked gate just rang: the neighbors asking if we needed anything from the store. They kinda stumbled around how to express concern for us being higher risk people (can't really open with "You're old"), but a brilliant offer on their part. Told them we'll text if we hit Costco next week. An awful nice and unexpected offer on their part and smart too - fewer store visits, less risk.

 

[MichaelB]

Just a reminder, this thread is intended to focus on preparedness measures. There are other threads for general discussion and news. Some posts are being moved here to keep the proper focus.

 

[Fermion]

I was thinking about doing this in our apartment complex, as we are the youngest couple here by about 25 years. I did have a concern though that if I was a non symptomatic carrier, I could be Typhoid Mary'ing them. I am not really close to any of them other than a wave and a "nice day out today isn't it?" although my wife did help one lady with setting up her computer and I helped a guy get his scooter into his car once.

 

[NW-Reader]

Yeah, I pretty much just consider everyone I see to be a potential carrier and that I should keep my distance and don't touch anything in public unless I have to.

This infectious disease specialist suggests looking at it the other way round:

Graham Medley, Professor of Infectious Disease Modelling, told BBC Newsnight people shouldn't act like someone who is avoiding contracting the virus but rather as someone who already has the virus and is trying not to pass it onto others.

The video clip is in this article:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12316640

 

[REWahoo]

In addition to the empty shelves in grocery stores, there appears to be a huge demand - and corresponding delay - for curbside pickup.

Our nearest two HEB grocery stores say the earliest slot available for pickup of online orders is late next Friday or early on Saturday, 5 or 6 days from now.

The nearest two Walmart grocery locations display this message:

Sorry! Due to increased demand, no times are currently available. Please check back later

 

[Nemo2]

Our local, provincial, and perhaps federal, governments are 'directing' people to 'self isolate' if returning from certain countries, and to 'self monitor' if coming back from others.

'Self Monitor'? Don't people always self monitor?

I can see it now....."I appear to have a broken leg - don't know how long I've had it 'cause I haven't been self monitoring for a couple weeks".

 

[sengsational]

Preparation Question: Commuity Spread Map

As one thoughtfully and responsibly prepares for 'flattening the curve', the huge majority of the US, right now, probably, has very little risk in going out to buy things (buying things that will allow them to eliminate or reduce contact with other people in the coming months). This is a reasonable and smart thing to do, I think.

I have depended on the local newspaper to report presumed or confirmed cases in my immediate geography. I've only heard of 2 cases that were recently imported for specific reasons, so I'm not worried right now about going to the grocery store, for instance. That got me thinking (usual warnings apply) if there was a source of information down at the level of a smaller geography (town or county) where they have 'community spread confirmed' flag (yes or no). It would be a nice reference to look at a map that gave information that's more useful than what I've seen. For instance, I don't care if a city has a bunch of sequestered cruise ship passengers, or someone who just got back from a hot-spot. I want to know if anybody got it in the grocery store!

 

[W2R]

Our local, provincial, and perhaps federal, governments are 'directing' people to 'self isolate' if returning from certain countries, and to 'self monitor' if coming back from others.

'Self Monitor'? Don't people always self monitor?

I can see it now....."I appear to have a broken leg - don't know how long I've had it 'cause I haven't been self monitoring for a couple weeks".

Well, then there's the guy seeking a coronavirus test who might say..... "Temperature? Can't you take that for me? I have had a cough for maybe a couple of days or a month, but I don't know if I have had a fever too. I feel a little warm but gosh - - I don't even know where my thermometer is."

 

[sengsational]

I found this on the ARDS (Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome) Foundation web site:

Vitamin D Levels Severely Deficient in ARDS Patients
Vitamin D deficiency has been linked to more than a few diseases, and the latest is acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS).
Deficiency was widespread say researchers after looking at more than 100 patients with, or at risk of getting, ARDS. And using mouse models, they also concluded that vitamin D deficiency appears to contribute to the development of ARDS.
They published their findings on April 22 in Thorax."

https://ardsglobal.org/vitamin-d-levels-severely-deficient-ards-patients


ETA:

Vitamin D supplementation to prevent acute respiratory tract infections: systemic review and meta analysis of individual participant data
Conclusions Vitamin D supplementation was safe and it protected against acute respiratory tract infection overall. Patients who were very vitamin D deficient and those not receiving bolus doses experienced the most benefit.
Source: https://www.bmj.com/content/356/bmj.i6583

I've been meaning to apologize to you and to the community for my earlier suggestion that although sufficient vitamin D levels were protective for influenza, that those levels weren't necessarily protective for ADRS. Please prove me wrong often, as that's the way I learn.

I've been taking 2000 IU per day. My VitD,25-Hydroxy was 40 ng/ml one month ago. I'm now taking 4000 per day.

 

[MichaelB]

Our local, provincial, and perhaps federal, governments are 'directing' people to 'self isolate' if returning from certain countries, and to 'self monitor' if coming back from others.

'Self Monitor'? Don't people always self monitor?

I can see it now....."I appear to have a broken leg - don't know how long I've had it 'cause I haven't been self monitoring for a couple weeks".

Self monitor? DW does that for the both of us.

 

[NW-Bound]

Shows are, but the casinos and strip streets/ sidewalks were crowded last night.

Everyone has the equal right to be there. The only thing that a concerned individual can do is to not join them.

 

[Kwirk]

I want to know if anybody got it in the grocery store!

I'm assuming that you want to know if anybody 'has' it. If you mean 'caught' it then that's another topic.



You may not have a reasonable idea of how extensive the infections are in your community until widespread testing is available. There have been many cases of unexplained viral pneumonia for which testing has not been performed.


A bit more than 2 weeks ago my son was in Spain. At the time the cases in Spain seemed to be few and far between. Look at it now. He started coughing yesterday and is now isolating, etc.



Also, my reading suggests that we don't really have firm knowledge of just how easily this virus is spread by air. 3' or 6' of distance is better than in your face but we don't seem to be sure about just what may be safe. (I think of how easily tobacco smoke spreads and it makes me nervous, though I doubt that this virus spreads that easily.)

 

[NW-Bound]

A bit more than 2 weeks ago my son was in Spain. At the time the cases in Spain seemed to be few and far between. Look at it now. He started coughing yesterday and is now isolating, etc.

Also, my reading suggests that we don't really have firm knowledge of just how easily this virus is spread by air. 3' or 6' of distance is better than in your face but we don't seem to be sure about just what may be safe. (I think of how easily tobacco smoke spreads and it makes me nervous, though I doubt that this virus spreads that easily.)

Hopefully, it is just a cold or an ordinary flu. Please keep us up to date.

There's a lot of randomness in how someone catches the virus. We all have seen the headline of celebrities such as Tom Hanks and his wife getting infected in Australia.

Even now, there are only 297 cases in Australia vs almost 50,000 in Europe. How did they get it? Maybe from air travel? Apparently, having your own chartered jet or taking first-class seat is not a guarantee either.

 

[sengsational]

... I'm assuming that you want to know if anybody 'has' it ...

I really meant "got it" (at the grocery store). I want to know under what conditions the transmission actually is happening. My reasoning goes like this (bells going off in everyone's head) if transmission happens somewhere, under certain conditions, I want to know that (as a fact). If there is a situation where people "have it", but it's a place where transmission has never been a problem, then, as long as the place I'm at has ER beds available, I'm willing to take the risk. So, for example, if there are no reports of people acquiring the disease from having pizza delivered to their house, I'll keep the pizza's coming. When they start reporting "I got it from the pizza or pizza box", then I'm done with pizza delivery. I know, absurd example.

Also, my reading suggests that we don't really have firm knowledge of just how easily this virus is spread by air. 3' or 6' of distance is better than in your face but we don't seem to be sure about just what may be safe. (I think of how easily tobacco smoke spreads and it makes me nervous, though I doubt that this virus spreads that easily.)

I just listened to this podcast (https://player.fm/series/the-peter-...d-and-paul-grewal-md-coronavirus-covid-19-faq), and at the very end, nearing the 1 hour mark, they talk about the difference between transmission by "droplets" and the virus becoming "aerosolized". The latter goes right through an N95 mask like it isn't there. And they say that some things done in hospitals with ventilators or respirators or something could actually drive the production of getting the virus as aerosolized particles. That got me more worried. As you say, tobacco smoke (an aerosol, I guess, not a droplet), stays floating around and doesn't drop to the ground. I don't think we really know enough about how this stuff spreads through the air.

 

[garyt]

Ohio closing all bars and restaurants as of 9pm tonight. They can be open for carryout and delivery. Trump speaking at 5pm. National shutdown of some sort?

 

[Kwirk]

Considering the number of cases out there and the ease of infection at conferences, etc, I think you can reliably assume that somebody (I think many) has caught it in a grocery store. It's harder to say that it's in your grocery store but I don't think you should conclude that it's not.

 

[NW-Reader]

I really meant "got it" (at the grocery store). I want to know under what conditions the transmission actually is happening.

Re your earlier post, your local, county or state health department website should have information on cases.

As far as community spread, you should act as if it is already happening. If you wait to hear, you will have to wonder “Was I in the grocery store with that person? Did I already spread it to someone else?” The first person to get it with community spread most likely won’t have any idea how they caught it.

I know the Seattle woman in this NYT article. She was at a party with friends, none of whom had any symptoms. Several of them have tested positive, from the most casual contact.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/us/coronavirus-testing-challenges.html