Covid Vaccine Distribution

[harllee]

The "funniest" part is that these middle-aged women (one was 35, one 45, so not young) believed that is how old women dress! Gloves and bonnets, in Florida, yet!

They should have just gotten their hair cut super-short above their ears, put on a pair of capris and a tunic with a parrot painted on the front. They'd've passed in a minute.

Well this was in Miami--

 

[Brat]

So dangerous and frustrating

I have a concern about patients in skilled nursing facilities. A family member was admitted earlier this month after a stroke. She had an appointment for the vaccine but had a stroke two days before. The hospital didn't have a vaccine to administer. Long-term residents in the nursing home had already had their last shot.

So, my relative is now unable to get a vaccine and the nursing home had the highest Covid rate in the area.

 

[Amethyst]

Even more so! You'd be hard-pressed to find a granny in a bonnet in Miami

Well this was in Miami--

 

[ncbill]

Just read that Ft Hood will vaccinate anyone age 16 and up with a DOD ID card. That's a fairly large swathe

My active-duty kid still hasn't gotten his first dose...seems like that category should be higher priority than dependents.

 

[harllee]

I have a concern about patients in skilled nursing facilities. A family member was admitted earlier this month after a stroke. She had an appointment for the vaccine but had a stroke two days before. The hospital didn't have a vaccine to administer. Long-term residents in the nursing home had already had their last shot.

So, my relative is now unable to get a vaccine and the nursing home had the highest Covid rate in the area.

I have heard from others with similar situations that this is a big problem. In my state CVS was in charge of administering the vaccines to nursing homes as part of a an agreement they had with the Federal government. It seems like there should be some sort continuing requirement on behalf of these pharmacies to go back to the nursing homes and vaccinate new patients.

 

[Sojourner]

No need to panic if your vaccine shot from Pfizer is delayed a few weeks. It seems that the lower 52% effectiveness number was brought down by the first two weeks after the shot. After two weeks, effectiveness rises to 85%.

Dr. Osterholm has been referencing this finding extensively in his most recent podcasts. He is adamant that we (the U.S.) should start immediately withholding 2nd shots in order to focus on giving as many as possible in the 65+ age group their first shots over the next month or so. This is because he is very worried about how the U.K. variant is poised to sweep the U.S. like a "hurricane" over the coming weeks. He feels (quite strongly) that if we keep going with only the two-shot scheduling regimen for everyone, many thousands of seniors will die unnecessarily due to not getting their first shots. I believe he said that both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were virtually 100% effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalization, and death starting from day 15-21 after the first shot.

 

[mpeirce]

After this group they are going to open up to below 65 that are essential workers. Meaning teachers, grocery store workers, public transit employees. This I think is going to lead to mass chaos.

Chaos yes.

I read in today’s paper

He [Ohio’s Governor DeWine] declined to note which “small groups” he is considering adding to the eligibility list. He has noted that his office has received letters from 700 groups that have asked to either join the existing line for vaccines or be included in the next batch.

700 groups think they are special and deserve priority...

 

[Chuckanut]

Dr. Osterholm has been referencing this finding extensively in his most recent podcasts. He is adamant that we (the U.S.) should start immediately withholding 2nd shots in order to focus on giving as many as possible in the 65+ age group their first shots over the next month or so. This is because he is very worried about how the U.K. variant is poised to sweep the U.S. like a "hurricane" over the coming weeks. He feels (quite strongly) that if we keep going with only the two-shot scheduling regimen for everyone, many thousands of seniors will die unnecessarily due to not getting their first shots. I believe he said that both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were virtually 100% effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalization, and death starting from day 15-21 after the first shot.

Yes. And he is making a good case for it. IIRC, he thinks we are in the eye of that hurricane and it will hit big time in April and May.

OTOH.....

Dr. Markary from Johns Hopkins makes a good case that we will have herd immunity by April.

 

[zinger1457]

I guess there are benefits to being in the 'everyone else' group. By the time my group comes around just about everyone will have been vaccinated and it should be a breeze to get an appointment.

 

[CardsFan]

Dr. Osterholm has been referencing this finding extensively in his most recent podcasts. He is adamant that we (the U.S.) should start immediately withholding 2nd shots in order to focus on giving as many as possible in the 65+ age group their first shots over the next month or so. This is because he is very worried about how the U.K. variant is poised to sweep the U.S. like a "hurricane" over the coming weeks. He feels (quite strongly) that if we keep going with only the two-shot scheduling regimen for everyone, many thousands of seniors will die unnecessarily due to not getting their first shots. I believe he said that both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were virtually 100% effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalization, and death starting from day 15-21 after the first shot.

So, against most predictions, several vaccinations were developed and tested in record time. So far 2 have received emergency authorization for use (read the disclaimers from Pfizer, the drug is NOT approved by the FDA, just authorized for use).

The testing had a specific regiment, and efficacy was better than expected.

So NOW a doctor who had nothing to do with the development and testing of the drugs says, the h#ll with the regiment, let's change it because I think there might be a bigger problem.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Popeye]

Yes. And he is making a good case for it. IIRC, he thinks we are in the eye of that hurricane and it will hit big time in April and May.

OTOH.....

Dr. Markary from Johns Hopkins makes a good case that we will have herd immunity by April.

Initially I was against changing up on the dosing regimen. But I’m thinking getting one shot into everyone first makes more sense now that we have real world experience from Israel. My guess is authorities are reluctant to switch things up on people again and then have to convince them this is the right way to go.

It will get real interesting when the J&J shot gets approved. We’ll be telling people they have to be satisfied with the 66% effective shot instead of an 85% effective first dose of Pfizer. All so that others can get boosted from 85 to 95%. That’s not going to go over too well. Especially if groups or areas start thinking they are being forced to settle for a second rate vaccine.

 

[Sunset]

So, against most predictions, several vaccinations were developed and tested in record time. So far 2 have received emergency authorization for use (read the disclaimers from Pfizer, the drug is NOT approved by the FDA, just authorized for use).

The testing had a specific regiment, and efficacy was better than expected.

So NOW a doctor who had nothing to do with the development and testing of the drugs says, the h#ll with the regiment, let's change it because I think there might be a bigger problem.

What could possibly go wrong?

It is a complex issue, as we have a big problem (Covid).

Hopefully, they have not stopped the testing of the drugs, in the sense that they could continue to follow/test the original test subjects.

And start new tests as Covid is not going to disappear in a month.

At the same time, I think they probably picked the timing for the second shot to be as quick after the first shot and still work. The longer they waited for the second shot the less marketplace competitive they were becoming.

 

[Sunset]

...
It will get real interesting when the J&J shot gets approved. We’ll be telling people they have to be satisfied with the 66% effective shot instead of an 85% effective first dose of Pfizer. All so that others can get boosted from 85 to 95%. That’s not going to go over to well. Especially if groups or areas start thinking they are being forced to settle for a second rate vaccine.

No kidding, If I get the J&J shot.
I'll still be lining up for the Pfizer/Moderna shot.

 

[CardsFan]

It is a complex issue, as we have a big problem (Covid).

Hopefully, they have not stopped the testing of the drugs, in the sense that they could continue to follow/test the original test subjects.

And start new tests as Covid is not going to disappear in a month.

At the same time, I think they probably picked the timing for the second shot to be as quick after the first shot and still work. The longer they waited for the second shot the less marketplace competitive they were becoming.

I agree it is a complex issue. I am not sure how much more testing is being done, as almost every one in the world (LITERALLY) wants a vaccine ASAP.

My concern is changing the protocol based on the opinions of persons that had no involvement with the testing. If the manufacturers agree, maybe.

 

[RetireBy90]

WSJ today had an article on studies that have been completed recently that seem to back the UK plan to get at least one shot into as many people as possible.
At the same time, numbers of vaccine shots projected to be available in March have been revised with considerable increases. I’m hopeful that March will be a turning point.
Dr. Gottlieb recently talked about the number of people with immunity from a prior infection and those with a vaccine approaching 50%.

 

[mpeirce]

It will get real interesting when the J&J shot gets approved. We’ll be telling people they have to be satisfied with the 66% effective shot instead of an 85% effective first dose of Pfizer.

Efficacy varied by region, with the shot proving 72% effective in the U.S., 66% effective in Latin America, and around 57% effective in South Africa.
...
Moreover, the efficacy figures actually compare quite favorably with some other vaccines. For example, the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine posted an efficacy rate of roughly 62% with the standard two-dose regimen that is currently being used in the U.K. In fact, even annual flu vaccines are typically only around 40% to 60% effective.

If I'm offered the J&J vaccine I'll take it.

 

[explanade]

Some people in the UK and Europe are snubbing the AZ vaccine in favor of the Pfizer or Moderna because of the higher published efficacy rates.

Germans are piling up unused doses as people skip appointments to get the AZ shots.

So that's another form of vaccine hesitancy, not the usual, don't want the vaccine but don't want that vaccine.

 

[Chuckanut]

Some people in the UK and Europe are snubbing the AZ vaccine in favor of the Pfizer or Moderna because of the higher published efficacy rates.

Germans are piling up unused doses as people skip appointments to get the AZ shots.

So that's another form of vaccine hesitancy, not the usual, don't want the vaccine but don't want that vaccine.

La fame!

I am sure there are people in 3rd world countries that would be happy to get a dose of the AZ or the JJ vaccine.

 

[travelover]

La fame!

I am sure there are people in 3rd world countries that would be happy to get a dose of the AZ or the JJ vaccine.

I know people in First World countries that would be glad to get those vaccines.

 

[EveryLady]

That almost makes too much sense. In our state, once you remove the over 65 and under 16 groups, 96% of the population is listed in a special class (medical, those with 2 or more co-morbidities, those with only one co-morbidity, critical workers, essential workers and so-on), none specific to age. Once they open it to the next phase I don't see how they could enforce any of it with any efficiency so it will be a free for all.

The same in our state which is described as among the worst for getting vaccine into arms. We actually have two parallel eligibility systems: one state-based and one county-based. That conflict.

What makes it even worse here is that the only effective age priority is 75 & up. Meaning anyone age 74 down to 65 is theoretically eligible but cannot qualify for actual appointments by most providers. Where they are eligible they are in a massive pool. It doesn't look like that will change (even on the county level where even a 74 yo won't get the age prioritization the very elderly did "when their turn comes") unless someone decides to revamp the whole system.

From what I can tell, I'm one of the few 67 yo who managed to get vaccinated. I'm trying to help friends find appointments but it's very very difficult. And it won't get better any time soon because there will always be another priority group piling in behind - with a subset of them technologically skilled with great patience.

 

[Katsmeow]

DJ and I got 2nd Moderna shot today (in North Texas). There was no wait (well, the line was 2 minutes long). When we did the first shot it took about 45 minutes to wait in line in our car, then stand in line, etc. This time they had this different car traffic flow that had to drive around in a parking lot. This appeared to be to avoid long car lines on the street. But, there was no car line at all so that was all a waste of time.

We went in a special entrance they have for people over 70 (I'm not but DH is) and who are mobility impaired. The last time that line had been a real bottleneck (we had moved in 2 spots in almost 30 minutes). This time, no line at all.

The center was closed most of last week due to the weather. I do wonder if they were only doing 2nd shots today to get caught up. Or maybe they are running low on Vaccine. I know they haven't run through their backlog of people signing up.

So far only symptom I have is that I am extremely sleepy. My friend had her 2nd shot on Saturday and she felt awful the next day. Her DH, though, just had no problem at all. So we'll see how I feel in a day....

 

[Alan]

The vaccine distribution has dropped significantly in the last few days as Pfizer reconfigure their plant in Belgium to increase production and the NHS stockpiles vaccine ready for the coming wave of 2nd dose vaccinations starting in March.

The latest data is also showing that both the Pfizer and AZ vaccines have been extremely effective after just 1 dose.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ive-linked-to-big-drop-in-hospital-admissions

One dose of vaccine against Covid-19 in Scotland has cut hospital admissions by more than 85%, according to the first data to be published on the impact of the UK programme.

By the fourth week after receiving the initial dose, the Pfizer and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines had reduced the risk of hospitalisation from Covid-19 by up to 85% and 94% respectively, according to a study by Scottish universities and Public Health Scotland.

Among people aged 80 and over – those at highest risk because of their advanced years – vaccination was associated with an 81% reduction in hospital admission risk in the fourth week, when the results for both vaccines were combined.
.
.
.
The study suggested that both vaccines were working well, said the researchers. The study was not set up to look at any differences between the two. The Pfizer/BioNTech was available first so there is more data, but the Oxford/AstraZeneca was mostly used in the older age group.

The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine appears to have performed very well in older people. Only two people given that vaccine were admitted to hospital in the study. There were more hospital admissions in those given the Pfizer vaccine, but among more people immunised. Even so, the very good Oxford vaccine results could cause a rethink in those countries that have decided not to allow it to be used in people over the age of 65 because of a shortage of trial data.

 

[skipro33]

NBC news last night reported that 1/2 a dose is being tossed out with each vaccine vial due to regulations. Seems there are 6 and 1/2 doses per vial, but it's not 'legal' to insert a needle from one vial into another because it might cross contaminate. The doctors interviewed said that was old school and since those days, disinfection techniques preclude any problem. They showed was amounted to many thousands of doses trapped in vials being tossed. Seems since the vaccine is released for emergency use, so should the assertation of the vaccine from the vial.

 

[Alan]

NBC news last night reported that 1/2 a dose is being tossed out with each vaccine vial due to regulations. Seems there are 6 and 1/2 doses per vial, but it's not 'legal' to insert a needle from one vial into another because it might cross contaminate. The doctors interviewed said that was old school and since those days, disinfection techniques preclude any problem. They showed was amounted to many thousands of doses trapped in vials being tossed. Seems since the vaccine is released for emergency use, so should the assertation of the vaccine from the vial.

That was discovered in the UK in December and the practice of inserting a needle into 2 vials to utilize the extra 1/2 dose was authorized.

 

[Popeye]

NBC news last night reported that 1/2 a dose is being tossed out with each vaccine vial due to regulations. Seems there are 6 and 1/2 doses per vial, but it's not 'legal' to insert a needle from one vial into another because it might cross contaminate. The doctors interviewed said that was old school and since those days, disinfection techniques preclude any problem. They showed was amounted to many thousands of doses trapped in vials being tossed. Seems since the vaccine is released for emergency use, so should the assertation of the vaccine from the vial.

Gotta love bureaucracy! Can’t they just use two needles, 1/2 dose each and stick me twice? This is the kind of thing that drives people crazy.