Dealing with Moisture in Fire Boxes or Fire Proof Safes?

[ExFlyBoy5]

Long story short, we have a couple of fireboxes that have various papers/photographs/etc in them and I am fighting with keeping moisture out of them. I know that I can "air them out" every few weeks to keep it from being an issue, but I was curious if others have used any of the silica bags or gun safe "rechargeable" silica do-dads with success?

 

[Sunset]

You can recharge many silica bags in the oven, and certain types of cat litter is the same stuff except a LOT cheaper.

 

[RobbieB]

The silica bags are not expensive and they do renew in the oven.

 

[Bamaman]

My safe has a small electric light bulb to bring the temperature up enough to where the air is better.

 

[OldShooter]

My safe has a small electric light bulb to bring the temperature up enough to where the air is better.

this

 

[Jerry1]

Given that they are fireboxes and not larger safes, I would go with the silica bags. Maybe even a small activated charcoal bag as well.

 

[Koolau]

I've seen various sizes of desiccant bags sold at a safe retailer. Instructions indicate temp/time to heat in regular oven to dispel the moisture. Not ridiculously priced as I recall. YMMV

 

[OldShooter]

... I was curious if others have used any of the silica bags or gun safe "rechargeable" silica do-dads with success?

I have avoided them because of the "recharge" aspect. There is no easy way to know when the desiccant material is saturated and needs to have the moisture baked out. Maybe precision weighing? So you end up with a maintenance chore where the necessary schedule is unknown and probably changes with the seasons. More desiccant means less frequent maintenance but again you don't really know how much more or how less frequent. Adding a humidity meter (hygrometer) to the container might be useful here.

A better solution, IMO, is a heater rod like https://www.libertysafe.com/products/dry-rod-dehumidifier The idea of these is to raise the temperature inside the safe to a point where humidity and condensation are no longer a concern. My gun safe, in fact, has a hole in the bottom specifically intended for the power cord to a heater rod.

It sounds like you are working with smaller containers, but this is hardly a new problem, so some internet searches might offer a solution for you.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Thanks for the info. Both boxes are relatively small, so no room for a light bulb or other "wired" devices (and that would negate the purpose of having a fire box, right?). I think I will go with the silica bags since they are so cheap. I did see one of the rechargeable models that has a moisture indicator, but I think that might just be overdoing it a little.

 

[Sunset]

Thanks for the info. Both boxes are relatively small, so no room for a light bulb or other "wired" devices (and that would negate the purpose of having a fire box, right?). I think I will go with the silica bags since they are so cheap. I did see one of the rechargeable models that has a moisture indicator, but I think that might just be overdoing it a little.

A big problem with the fire boxes is they will burn in a house fire. Everything inside will be burned.

I suggest scanning the photos and documents, encrypting the files, then store the files on 2 or 3 flash drives. Put one in a bank safety deposit box and/or seal in envelope and leave at a trusted relatives house. Leave one at your house.

 

[JoeWras]

A big problem with the fire boxes is they will burn in a house fire. Everything inside will be burned.

I suggest scanning the photos and documents, encrypting the files, then store the files on 2 or 3 flash drives. Put one in a bank safety deposit box and/or seal in envelope and leave at a trusted relatives house. Leave one at your house.

It depends on the intensity of the fire and construction of the box.

One of the great ironies of these boxes is many have a kind of "wet putty" encased around the inside. This provides the fire protection. It can also provide a means for moisture release, which may be happening to OP.

Also, if you drill through it to secure it, you drill through the putty and expose it. It will dry out in a year or so and then Sunset's scenario is spot on - no fire protection.

 

[Out of Steam]

Long story short, we have a couple of fireboxes that have various papers/photographs/etc in them and I am fighting with keeping moisture out of them. I know that I can "air them out" every few weeks to keep it from being an issue, but I was curious if others have used any of the silica bags or gun safe "rechargeable" silica do-dads with success?

We opened our fireproof box a couple of months ago and found things damp in it. I put two silica gel packets of 200 grams each into it.

 

[Sunset]

This site gives some explanation of the various ratings applied to fireproof safes, so one could look up to see how long it would survive.

Note: that photos are more delicate than paper, as the interior of a safe will warm up in a fire but paper doesn't burn until it reaches 451F.

https://www.safesworld.com/how-long-do-fireproof-safes-last/

 

[braumeister]

Home safes come in many sizes and shapes, but they are given ratings for both fire and water resistance. I would concentrate on those, since none of them are really as secure as you would think.

Fire resistance is a big one, but even the expensive ones are almost never rated for more than an hour or two at the temperature of a home fire (over 1,000°F).

Water resistance is easier, and it's not hard to find them being essentially completely waterproof. But it's also very important since putting out a home fire uses incredible amounts of water.

Humidity inside really isn't that hard to deal with. The silica gel packages are easy to renew in the oven and you don't have to do it very often. This is not critical so don't overthink it.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

A big problem with the fire boxes is they will burn in a house fire. Everything inside will be burned.

I suggest scanning the photos and documents, encrypting the files, then store the files on 2 or 3 flash drives. Put one in a bank safety deposit box and/or seal in envelope and leave at a trusted relatives house. Leave one at your house.

Most of the items in the fire boxes have already been backed up and/or stored in alternate locations. Most of the stuff is legal papers, passports, etc....no big deal if they are destroyed. Nonetheless, they shouldn't destroyed if the fire isn't too intense and is extinguished in a reasonable time. Oh, and they inside a steel tornado shelter.

 

[Koolau]

I have avoided them because of the "recharge" aspect. There is no easy way to know when the desiccant material is saturated and needs to have the moisture baked out. Maybe precision weighing? So you end up with a maintenance chore where the necessary schedule is unknown and probably changes with the seasons. More desiccant means less frequent maintenance but again you don't really know how much more or how less frequent. Adding a humidity meter (hygrometer) to the container might be useful here.

A better solution, IMO, is a heater rod like https://www.libertysafe.com/products/dry-rod-dehumidifier The idea of these is to raise the temperature inside the safe to a point where humidity and condensation are no longer a concern. My gun safe, in fact, has a hole in the bottom specifically intended for the power cord to a heater rod.

It sounds like you are working with smaller containers, but this is hardly a new problem, so some internet searches might offer a solution for you.

My lab used to use a descant which changed color upon being fully used up. The bags of descant I use in my small safe suggest recharging yearly unless the safe is used often in humid conditions. YMMV

 

[Music Lover]

Why are papers in a safe/firebox getting damp in the first place? If the humidity level of your home is in a normal range, I don't see how this could happen.

 

[pacergal]

^^My question also.
I have never experienced moisture in our fire resistant/fireproof safe.

 

[CRLLS]

I have avoided them because of the "recharge" aspect. There is no easy way to know when the desiccant material is saturated and needs to have the moisture baked out. Maybe precision weighing? So you end up with a maintenance chore where the necessary schedule is unknown and probably changes with the seasons. More desiccant means less frequent maintenance but again you don't really know how much more or how less frequent. Adding a humidity meter (hygrometer) to the container might be useful here.

A better solution, IMO, is a heater rod like https://www.libertysafe.com/products/dry-rod-dehumidifier The idea of these is to raise the temperature inside the safe to a point where humidity and condensation are no longer a concern. My gun safe, in fact, has a hole in the bottom specifically intended for the power cord to a heater rod.

It sounds like you are working with smaller containers, but this is hardly a new problem, so some internet searches might offer a solution for you.

One way is to monitor the internal humidity. When the humidity gets above your desired amount, the Dessicant has expired and it is time to dry it out. Add an inexpensive humidity indicator card such as this to the safe:

https://www.amazon.com/Dry-Premium-Humidity-Indicator-Reusable/dp/B01974FX42

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Why are papers in a safe/firebox getting damp in the first place? If the humidity level of your home is in a normal range, I don't see how this could happen.

They are kept in the tornado shelter which is in the garage and not climate controlled. We have severe weather here fairly often, so lugging a couple of fire boxes out of the house into the shelter can be a pain. Plus, the shelter has a pretty robust locking system, so it's added security from thieves.

Also, I went ahead and purchased a couple of these after some recommendations. They have a desiccant indicator and can be plugged in to dry them out.

 

[Telly]

Why are papers in a safe/firebox getting damp in the first place? If the humidity level of your home is in a normal range, I don't see how this could happen.

Temperature changes, atmospheric pressure changes, nominally sealed box without large moisture-permeable exchange area, bad karma, bad juju, living in this state, rumor of being built over an old Indian burial ground. It happens. A shelf very close by with papers or leather is fine. As is everywhere else in the structure. The rumor may have been sparked from South Park.

 

[Jerry1]

They are kept in the tornado shelter which is in the garage and not climate controlled.

Which shelter do you have? Or, did you build your own?

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Which shelter do you have? Or, did you build your own?

It's a 4x6 above ground steel shelter that we had installed after buying the house.