Divorce: Ever the Optimist

[pb4uski]

....An advice columnist would tell you to get tested for STDs considering the multiple partners. .......

Never thought of that one...

 

[EvrClrx311]

Thanks for the support. Haha, I guess I need to clarify my statement:

"I'll start off by saying I don't desire to be single, and I'm sure I'll find a new wife soon, better able to identify what I really want in my life"

What I meant is that I'm older now and I myself am better able to identify what I really want in life. At 23 I wanted a wife and family. I married someone who needed me... I knew my wife in HS and we started dating in college when she was in a very depressed state in life. I incorrectly assumed I'd be appreciated (and that it would be a good foundation) in my marriage for being there for her in the lowest point of her life. Immaturity on my part, and lack of wisdom. Seems so foolish now. Definitely perfect stage for what ended up happening... Not to excuse her behavior or inability to seek help or come to me during it to try and correct things.

Anyways, I'm a very future oriented person. So my language is meant to say only that I don't desire to be 50 and single. I want a family and I want to share my life with someone. I'm in no rush there however. I'm taking my time.

Good example... A mutual friend put me in touch with a women about my age going through the same thing. I'm guessing he cheated on her, but unlike me she just doesn't want to dig that up. He came home from a 9 month work trip and suddenly just said he didn't love her anymore and wanted a divorce (they have a 6 year old). I've been helping her understand his actions aren't a reflection of her... She seemed to think she's worthless. The pain of rejection without understanding why.

Anyways it became clear to me this girl was emotionally attaching to me in this. She is in no place to start a new relationship (I'm not either) so I had to tell her pretty bluntly I'm not interested in that... But I would love to help her resolve things if she needs someone to vent to.

I swear I'm not crazy and jumping straight into the next. Haha, didn't mean to give that impression

What I really want is someone who values me, not needs me. I want to find happiness myself and then share that with someone else who has similar goals in life. I'm done adapting myself to someone else... That is what my entire marriage was. I see now how unhealthy that was and I'm very sensitive to not falling into that role again.

 

[aja8888]

It's a long battle and things will change, for sure..

Right now, the fighting and lawyer antics will be about money splitting, personal things, splitting the assets, long term support, who pays for what (you will since she has no income - you will even pay her attorney's bills), etc, etc.

But in the long run, the real damage gets done to the children as many of us know and have experienced here. Your kids will be seeing you or her on occasion and be shuffled around on holidays. Mine used to show up with empty suitcases.

Plus, the news to them that they have (could, may) a new Dad and Mom to deal with is going to be an influence on them, good, bad, or otherwise. The kids will need counseling at some point in time too.

 

[retiredatfifty]

+1
Stay away from women for a while. Your happiness comes from within, not who you're with. ....

I disagree the OP shoud "stay away from women for a while."

Conversely, I see no reason the OP shouldn't have as many friendships with as many women as he desires or is comfortable with - yet making it clear he is not considering marriage to any for some time.

 

[MRG]

I disagree the OP shoud "stay away from women for a while."

Conversely, I see no reason the OP shouldn't have as many friendships with as many women as he desires or is comfortable with - yet making it clear he is not considering marriage to any for some time.

OK replace women with relationships. Yes you can have many good female friends, they may have some very good insights. It can add some complexity. Ensure everyone knows and respects the boundaries.
MRG

 

[kcowan]

Lots of good advice here. I would have one thing to add. Pretend that your spouse has the most aggressive divorce lawyer possible and will take you to the cleaners, in spite of your current conciliatory position. Ask yourself what is the worst settlement that you can stomach. Then get yourself a lawyer to protect your future and make sure you have sufficient involvement with your kids that you can actually neutralize some of the awful things that they have been subject to already.

Pay particular attention to the dangerous behaviour that spouse has already exposed your kids to. You have a very good case but you must act quickly.

 

[EvrClrx311]

*edit*

 

[Calico]

If she didn't know you were recording the conversation, I don't see how the recording was "legally acquired."

 

[aja8888]

Unless you are a celebrity with zillions of dollars, your divorce won't go to trial or litigation. At most, you will both be represented by separate attorneys who will at first, not want the haggling to end (they love to bill you).

Secondly, if you can't come up with an agreement on assets distribution, you will be asked to go to mediation where a 3rd party will help you split the goods. If that doesn't work, then the judge will do it quickly.

On the issue of support and custody, the state you are in may have special rules you must follow. Circumstances differing will be decided and signed off by the judge at the closing ceremony.

Having all the tape recordings, pictures of bad things, witnesses, etc, usually don't mean a hill of beans as the divorce settlement agreement is what counts. Even if your wife admitted adultery and several boyfriend encounters, her lawyer can make it sound like it was YOUR fault.

Work on the settlement agreement and review the state's rules on monetary support. That's going to be the bottom line for both of you.

I went through a long, and costly California divorce from a wife of 17 years with two teenagers in the marriage. It was a nightmare and the attorney costs were six figures 15 years ago. And we ALL know how bad a California divorce can be.

 

[haha]

Logic and common sense doesn't always follow law... unfortunately it is difficult to prove adultery. That said, I have a pretty slam dunk case if it goes that route. I have my wife on audio tape (legally acquired) admitting to it in specific details (dates, times, positions, etc...)

A truly gnarly conversation. I think you should stop posting about this, talk only to an experienced attorney and face to face friends.

As I understand it... legally there is no reason for me to pay her any spousal support. However, we have a special needs child and although she is college educated she hasn't been working for 4 years. There are provisional clauses under the adultery cases where a wife still cannot be left destitute and courts have a habit of putting the children first (rightfully so).

I have no personal experience with adultery, and if I did I am kind of no fault when it comes to someone's passions. But I think you are likely wrong about the part played by adultery. I think the entire US has no fault divorce. Go get represented and find out reality. To the best of my knowledge, though adultery may operate on people's feelings in negotiations, be careful in assuming that her adultery has any effect on how you might emerge from this financially.

Ha

 

[EvrClrx311]

I've spent the last 3 months with an attorney and studying Virginia law specific to the circumstances... Just sharing the story.

Virginia is old school when it comes to divorce. Adultery and physical abuse in the state are the only grounds for immediate divorce without a 1 year separation period when kids are involved. The idea here is (again old school) if you are dependent on financial support from the marriage and you sleep with someone outside the marriage... that new person is now responsible for providing for you... no longer your spouse.

Virginia law also states that private conversations between two persons may be recorded so long as one party in the conversation is consenting. My lawyer advised I do this, and was floored that I actually got her to talk openly about the facts.

Proof of adultery is difficult, which is why you hear so many people say judges just smack the two parents on the head and say... shut up about it you both want to divorce lets focus on the kids now. It is a criminal act so people are protected under 5th amendment to testify against themselves. Usually judges have to go on circumstantial evidence collected by PI over long periods of time. Rarely there is proof... video or audio. This is what my lawyer told me to try to get if I could get her to either agree to be video taped in the act (yeah right...) or could record her openly discussing specific details to prove it was in fact exactly what the Virginia courts deem as adultery.

Again, hopefully all a moot point.

We have our separation agreement completed. We are signing it this weekend... unless she gets cold feet about what we've already gone over. We've already been back and forth on the document for the last 10 weeks... and each spent about $3,000 to get to where we are.

 

[Pleeplus]

A truly gnarly conversation. I think you should stop posting about this, talk only to an experienced attorney and face to face friends.

Ha

+1
I am cringing at reading this and can't help but think that your honest attempt to tell your story may be used against you in some way. In addition, if it makes you feel better to discuss the situation seek some professional counseling. I leveraged counseling when I went through a divorce 13 years ago and it helped immensely in my ability to come to terms with not only the situation but also my own mixed up feelings.

Good luck!!

 

[haha]

I see. You are very well informed then. This sounds like 40 miles of bad road-good luck in every way. And good luck to your wife, though not against you. She will need it going forward. I hope she has the sense to hide her past when she starts dating. It isn't a great advertisement for a marriage prospect.


Ha

 

[aja8888]

Keep us posted. Sounds like you have a good plan. Good thing you are not in California.

 

[EvrClrx311]

You're right, nothing good can come from the facts of the story floating around the internet.

I edited my above post.

Thanks.

 

[EvrClrx311]

Keep us posted. Sounds like you have a good plan. Good thing you are not in California.

I have heard CA is a nightmare. Isn't there a mandatory lifetime commitment to support a lower income spouse you've been married to for 10 years?

Sorry to hear you have similar experiences. I can empathize on some level. I never in a million years would have thought this could happen to me.

I can think of a half dozen times over the last 8 years watching a movie with my wife where someone was cheating and smiling at her saying "wow, so glad that could NEVER be us!" ... I simply cannot imagine living with the stress of holding onto a secret like that. I'm a floored she was able to the last 7 years. We are certainly wired differently.

 

[tryan]

A good friend went thru a "bitter" divorce ... when asked how the "split" worked for him he said "1/3 to her, 1/3 to me, 1/3 to the lawyers". That's reason enough to get a concentual aggreement ... keep it out of the courts.

 

[Chuckanut]

A good friend went thru a "bitter" divorce ... when asked how the "split" worked for him he said "1/3 to her, 1/3 to me, 1/3 to the lawyers". That's reason enough to get a concentual aggreement ... keep it out of the courts.

FWIW, there are lawyers who specialize in leading the two parties through an arbitration process rather than a legal confrontation. They explain the law, give general advice to both parties, never just to one, and make sure all the legal hoops are jumped through, the I's dotted and the T's crossed. Of course, this only works if both parties are looking for an equitable settlement. If one person wants to extract vengeance at any price then all bets are off.

The best advice is to settle as much as possible between yourselves and avoid the 'black robes' as much as possible. Given the cost of legal advice these days, there is a strong incentive to be reasonable.

 

[aja8888]

I have heard CA is a nightmare. Isn't there a mandatory lifetime commitment to support a lower income spouse you've been married to for 10 years?

Sorry to hear you have similar experiences. I can empathize on some level. I never in a million years would have thought this could happen to me.

On the mandatory support commitment, I don't recall that, but there certainly is an alimony formula that both sides have to work through, even for marriages less than 10 years from what I recall.

We went through that with the wife not employed and it all fell upon me since I was the bread winner. Even though my wife had a college degree, and the kids were in high school, I was not able to prove she was "employable" so that she could work full time and reduce the load on me. Child support is also done via formula so if there is only one spouse employed, it can be a huge burden.

Ca is "wife" friendly and it's tough to come out favorable on child custody and extras.

Alimony is not tax deductible like child support is. Keep that in mind. I know of a tax guy (CPA) that got divorced and set it up so that his child support and alimony were considered "family support" which at that time was fully tax deductible. However, you must pay that for the length of her life unless she remarries. BTW, his wife has not remarried in the 20 years they have been divorced so he has paid a ton (but it is still a tax deduction). This goes on even after the children are adults.

Most divorces usually have one side that never saw it coming. (Me too!)

I'm going to say this again: Get professional counseling for yourself (soon) and for the kids (at some point).

 

[obgyn65]

I haven't read other posts under this thread but 1) your children should remain your top priority 2) everything you do regarding the divorce should be agreed upon with your lawyer 3) wait before embarking on new relationships.

 

[Ticker]

Pls be careful on your quest to find new romance.

A friend of mine who had been married several times often said that wives were like Sears Craftsman tools. If something goes wrong, they give you another one exactly like the first, only newer.

 

[Danmar]

Been there myself

Your story makes me think of my divorce. I was 42 when I left her. 8 year old daughter. I left with nothing, other than my ability to earn. Telling my daughter I was leaving was the hardest thing I ever did. Went through a very bitter 15 year divorce including trial and appeal. Cost me millions. I pay her very significant spousal support and will continue to do so for the rest of her life.

On the positive side it was worth it. Now married to a wonderful woman for 19 years. Have a great relationship with my daughter, now 30. I have no financial worries.

I think the most important thing is to maintain a good relationship with your kids. This relationship will last long after the divorce is but a faint unpleasant memory. Trust me, life goes on and will get better. Good luck.

 

[robnplunder]

I found out not long after that that my wife has borderline personality disorder and a bit of narcissism. She's also on depression meds.

We all know of people with personality disorders be it narcissism, obsession, possessive, ... I've dealt with a few myself (crazy neighbor, close family member). Despite our good nature, these folks can really push the limit of our patience and, sometimes, we don't see it coming until it's too late. Good luck and best wishes to your future.

 

[MRG]

We all know of people with personality disorders be it narcissism, obsession, possessive, ... I've dealt with a few myself (crazy neighbor, close family member). Despite our good nature, these folks can really push the limit of our patience and, sometimes, we don't see it coming until it's too late. Good luck and best wishes to your future.

+1
Does you estranged wife take her meds and condition seriously? Some folks with disorders refuse proper treatment, making life very difficult for those around them.

A good DR. with a willing patient is worth a lot more than any attorney. IMHO.
Best wishes,
MRG

 

[Letj]

Could her behavior perhaps be excused, understood, forgiven given her psychological struggles? Was she otherwise a good wife and mother? Sometimes marriage is stronger after people go through struggles together.