Done with Bogleheads ... it's a cult

[big-papa]

I’m tempted to poke the bear by posting “if individual bonds are bad, I’m sure Vanguard would not let me buy them” but I guess that would make me a troll.

I also haven't seen any restrictions specifically about posting about individual bonds, either. Posts on individual bonds happens all the time when people discuss things like bond ladders, etc.

When I have seen restrictions, it's usually secondary to specific discussions about individual bonds themselves. For example, no posting about proposed laws or regulations, politics, speculation about what congress might/might not do, economic policies, et al.

In fact, here's the full list. If interested, scroll down to section 4 "unacceptable topics"
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/rules

Cheers.

 

[big-papa]

From my experience it was the members, not the board that was upset about individual bond discussions. It was deemed too “risky.”

Unfortunately, the moderators don't have a policy about members being wrongheaded.

They'll step in quickly, though, if they see (or any members report) any contentiousness creeping into a discussion.

Cheers,
Big-Papa

 

[COcheesehead]

Unfortunately, the moderators don't have a policy about members being wrongheaded.

They'll step in quickly, though, if they see (or any members report) any contentiousness creeping into a discussion.

Cheers,
Big-Papa

True. That board has such a different feel than on here.

A couple posts here mention “rich” people on BH. I think there are some well funded folks here too. There is a lot of quiet money.

 

[Markola]

EThe forum was humorless! People have their sphincters clenched tight over there.

Hee! You got that right. Humorless.

 

[big-papa]

True. That board has such a different feel than on here.

A couple posts here mention “rich” people on BH. I think there are some well funded folks here too. There is a lot of quiet money.

I suspect that is the case here as well.

While you do see a lot of humble-brags over on BH, from time to time there a thread will open with the term such as "blue collar" in it. People are generally supportive in answering questions, giving advice, etc.

 

[Markola]

^^^ I guess I don’t really care who has more than whom. It’s all shades of gray and every lucky citizen of an advanced Western country appears indescribably rich to most of the world’s people.

Doesn’t it all boil down to, “How do I generate more income forever than I spend”, regardless of net worth?

 

[djsander]

I’m tempted to poke the bear by posting “if individual bonds are bad, I’m sure Vanguard would not let me buy them” but I guess that would make me a troll.

Go for it! Maybe rephrase it so it doesn’t sounds so harsh.

 

[Souschef]

I'd rather be active here.
Thanks to ER moderator.
And of course to the fellow members, too.

+100!!

 

[Graybeard]

He was called The Munchkin Man. His writing style was unique. He hasn't posted on BH since 2013.

Ah! Yes, The Munchkin Man not Muffin!

 

[jazz4cash]

Eh, as I said in my earlier post on this thread, you don't barge into a place of worship like a church, a synagogue, a temple, and question people's belief.

Comparing an internet personal finance forum to a house of worship aligns pretty well with OP’s conclusion that it is a cult.

 

[CaliKid]

BH has a lot of good info BUT it is a collective of engineers over-analyzing small things and, like the OP says, always getting to the same conclusion! I visit there occasionally for humor but MUCH prefer ER.org!

 

[harllee]

There are some subjects for which Bogleheads has the best information. For example, I am trying to make sure I do not hit IRMMA for Medicare this year. I did a search on ER and found a few threads about this subject. I also did a search on Bogleheads and found a very good WIKI and many threads. Bogleheads gave me all the info I needed.

 

[NW-Bound]

Comparing an internet personal finance forum to a house of worship aligns pretty well with OP’s conclusion that it is a cult.

Umm, the difference is a matter of degree.

A religion always has some tenets that one has to accept. You cannot deny or question these tenets. You just don't argue about these tenets. If you don't agree, you have to leave. Go form your own religion.

A cult goes further. To quote a definition on the Web:

"Cult:

* a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
* a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
* a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing."


PS. As mentioned, I visited the BH forum for an hour or so many years ago, and read some ongoing discussions then. I concluded that it was a religion and left. I did not stay long enough to know if it was a cult. And unless I see it myself, I will reserve the classification.

 

[VanWinkle]

Between Vanguard and Bogleheads, how long will we be beating the dead horse... This seems to just be more of the same people making fun/belittling the same institutions/website. Surely there are better ways to share the information needed for early retirement. I can appreciate the original venting of the OP, but I'm sure it wasn't the intent of what has followed.

Just my 2c worth,

VW

 

[big-papa]

Between Vanguard and Bogleheads, how long will we be beating the dead horse... This seems to just be more of the same people making fun/belittling the same institutions/website. Surely there are better ways to share the information needed for early retirement. I can appreciate the original venting of the OP, but I'm sure it wasn't the intent of what has followed.

Just my 2c worth,

VW

Probably about as long as certain people on Bogleheads continue to argue about intrenational (or not), factors (or not), 3-fund (or something else), tilting (or not), etc.

In all seriousness, I agree with you. On this forum or BH, though, I wouldn't confuse certain members' opinions with what the entire forum "believes", whatever that means.

Cheers,
Big papa

 

[bloom2708]

Just like here, take what you need, leave what you don't. I've gotten much better all around investing advice on Bogleheads, but both sites have helpful tidbits. I enjoy the discussions that get below the surface. Even the International vs US threads have some interesting points.

Quitting one or the other because of a supposed dogma doesn't seem right.

The EV car thread (8 pages) currently on Bogleheads is interesting.

 

[COcheesehead]

Probably about as long as certain people on Bogleheads continue to argue about intrenational (or not), factors (or not), 3-fund (or something else), tilting (or not), etc.

In all seriousness, I agree with you. On this forum or BH, though, I wouldn't confuse certain members' opinions with what the entire forum "believes", whatever that means.

Cheers,
Big papa

I agree with you. Folks on here are thinking we are attacking the Bogle strategy when what we have an issue with is the pragmatism of some BH members to the point of being absurd.

 

[TheWizard]

Back when I was active on BH, a fair number of my posts were helping comparative newbies get their financial situation in better shape.

I think it would be a mistake to assume that there's a significant core of Bogleheads who have a religious fanaticism about having a three fund portfolio, for instance.

I will say there's almost universal ill will towards Edward Jones over there...

 

[Markola]

For me, it’s a matter of tone. My investing style is beauty-in-simplicity, set it and forget it with Vanguard index funds, with a little dabbling around the edges for fun and profit. The Bogleheads Forum tone is INTENSE, serious and you better bring your A Game to participate. No thanks.

 

[Turbo29]

Some threads definitely border on a religious argument, complete with the resident Bogleheads theologians arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

 

[Koolau]

For me, it’s a matter of tone. My investing style is beauty-in-simplicity, set it and forget it with Vanguard index funds, with a little dabbling around the edges for fun and profit. The Bogleheads Forum tone is INTENSE, serious and you better bring your A Game to participate. No thanks.

Yeah, I never wanted my investing strategy to be "perfect" - just adequate. IOW I never wanted to w*rk that hard in retirement. Fine tuning is for folks who are "into" stuff for its own sake. That's maybe good for model builders, but for me, it's too much like w*rk. YMMV

 

[Gumby]

Yeah, I never wanted my investing strategy to be "perfect" - just adequate. IOW I never wanted to w*rk that hard in retirement. Fine tuning is for folks who are "into" stuff for its own sake. That's maybe good for model builders, but for me, it's too much like w*rk. YMMV

I'm with you guys. I recognized the beauty and simplicity of Vanguard funds in 1984 and have stuck with that investing approach ever since. I sure did not need a group of online Vanguard evangelicals to sell me on it. Over the years, I have dabbled with individual stocks (long only) with mixed success. I no longer wanted the hassle of keeping track of them, so about ten years ago I divested to all but two that I will likely keep forever. Right now, I put my energy into gardening, traveling and other fun stuff. I have no interest in trying to squeeze every last nickel from my portfolio. Just enough to live as I wish.

 

[NW-Bound]

For most people, investing is more like politics than religion, and it also becomes impossible to have a discussion.

We each can do what we want with our money. There's no need to get an approval stamp from anybody, nor a need to evangelize. One less thing to argue about, particularly things that do not impact yourself. Politics is tougher to ignore, because it can impact you.

 

[big-papa]

I agree with you. Folks on here are thinking we are attacking the Bogle strategy when what we have an issue with is the pragmatism of some BH members to the point of being absurd.

Yep - and I tend to ignore those. I can't tell you how many times I started to respond to one of those, wrote a huge post and then deleted it.
Reason: I suddenly remembered that I don't have to participate in every argument I'm invited to.

I did learn early on not to disclose my portfolio. I did that once to make a point that there are a lot of totally fine ways to get to your destination. Of course one of the fanatics had to point out that my portfolio made no sense to him and recommended I change to his version of "perfectly adequate". My response was that if mine makes no sense to him, then there is no reason he should use it. But it makes complete sense to me and I'm not trying to tell anybody that they should use it. Response was, thankfully, silence. Anyway, it's definitely not a place for people with thin skins. And fortunately, not all members are like that.

These days as part of some other discussion, I'll point out that I'm not a 3-funder but that I'm all in low cost index funds and leave it at that. Occasionally someone will come along asking about a portfolio similar to mine. I then use the PM feature to communicate with the individual regarding what I do and why. A much higher signal-to-noise ratio that way!

Anyway, like many forums, there are 3 types of members
- those who want to learn
- those who want to teach
- those who want to argue/troll and who insist that their version of reality is the right version for everybody.

Cheers,
Big-Papa

 

[Taco]

There is a lot of good info at BogleHeads and I've found it valuable. But it is like getting info in a lecture hall. Here, it is like getting info from talking to some friends. I like here.