Embezzlement

[Oz investor]

personally i had a theory , that any job i had and could not make parallel extra cash ( legally ) wasn't worth keeping .

i found keeping your eyes open at work kept you safer and richer

( PS , it pays to keep a low profile about the activities , management never understands even when you explain it to them , but that is a different theory )

 

[Walt34]

That said, I just don't UNDERSTAND why anybody would embezzle money. Seriously, don't they even THINK about it just a teeny little bit? I mean, consider the options:

<snip>

I'd take the latter any day of the week.

That's because you're an honest mature responsible adult who can defer immediate gratification for long term gain. If you'd taken the marshmallow test at age four I have no doubt you'd have passed.

When I first went into the Fraud Section I was amazed at the stupidity of some of these people. How about stealing a check from your employer, or even a book of checks, forging checks payable to yourself, then depositing said checks into your own account. Did these people think no one would notice? That the employer never balanced the checking account? I wondered, what were these people THINKING?

The answer in most cases was drugs. They wanted/needed that money NOW. And they most definitely were not thinking past today, or at most the end of the week.

Sometimes it wasn't drugs, but they got behind on some bills, just wanted to borrow it, and even intended to pay it back. I had one case where a woman (and embezzlers are usually women) over a series of embezzlements actually did pay back a few of them.

And to a few it's a game to see how long they can get away with it using a fake I.D. to get hired and when they get wind of any investigation they disappear into the night.

 

[W2R]

Thank goodness my life is such that I can make decisions that are mostly in my own best interest.

Embezzling is probably the last thing on earth I'd ever want to do, right up there next to jumping off the top of a skyscraper to see what it would feel like when I hit the ground.

 

[Scrapr]

You guys crack me up!! Poor Souschef, autocorrect is such a pain in the neck....

That said, I just don't UNDERSTAND why anybody would embezzle money. Seriously, don't they even THINK about it just a teeny little bit? I mean, consider the options:

you never hear about the embezzlers that get away with the deed!

I ran our Boy Scout Christmas tree recycle fundraiser. I was scared to death of missing money. Tried to have only adults handle cash/checks. 2 people handle & count. Tried to keep a lot of extra folks out of the counting room.

I was even more scared when Mrs Scrapr ran a fundraiser for the school PSO. They had just had a embezzlement from a trusted volunteer

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

Only thing I can think of is two-person control. Always have a second person when possible. It's always tough when dealing with cash and trust issues of the volunteers.

+1 I have 40+years experience in nonprofits. Always, always use a two-person control on donations, whether staff or volunteers. Auditors should be asking about this anyway. You never want even the appearance of potential wrongdoing. It's not a trust issue, but one of simple operational integrity.

Years ago I started a new job at a new england liberal arts college. At the audit, after my first year, the auditors (it was a new firm that year) took the gift accounting staff individually into a private office and asked them if I ever pressured them to do anything illegal or unethical. One of the staff came to my office afterwards, white as a ghost, and asked me if I was in trouble! I told her it's a routine question and that they asked me the same thing about the President and the chair of the board.

-BB

 

[mystang52]

That said, I just don't UNDERSTAND why anybody would embezzle money. Seriously, don't they even THINK about it just a teeny little bit? I mean, consider the options:

2 anecdotes: At my penultimate j*b (insurance claims), a few times a week I often w*rked a few hours late. Another manager was always there. She was a really nice person, and helped me several times with some company software issues, etc. She was arrested, and fired of course, for creating false claims under false names, then depositing the claim payments to dummy bank accounts that she ultimately cashed in for herself. It was a bit , in her attempts to avoid detection. I hear-tell she had a very nice condominium and extravagant lifestyle, and this embezzlement was the only way she could afford it. Last I heard she was a bar waitress.

For a couple of years I managed a small law firm, and was responsible for issuing payments. Any time I had to reimburse myself for expenses, I sent an email to our accountant, explained the expense and method of my payment, and that I was reimbursing myself. I didn't want even a hint of impropriety around the transaction. I saved every email for a few years, just to play safe.

 

[MRG]

You guys crack me up!! [emoji23] Poor Souschef, autocorrect is such a pain in the neck....

That said, I just don't UNDERSTAND why anybody would embezzle money. Seriously, don't they even THINK about it just a teeny little bit? I mean, consider the options:

Door #1: Taking on the risks, the deception, the sneaking around, lying, and the fact that you'd have to accept that you are a lousy, slimy, no good son of a whatever for the rest of your entire life and that when (not if) you are discovered, everybody will hate you and you may end up with no money, no friends, no job, no nothing, even a police record or (I have no idea!) jail time?

Door #2: Working harder for longer hours at multiple jobs for a few years, and ending up with friends, money, recommendations, job experience, and a high sense of self worth.

I'd take the latter any day of the week.

I witnessed a bunch of stupidity and only saw portions of what occurred.

One story from a long time ago helps me understand the insanity. Back in the old days we employed trash auditors to go through people's trash to make sure they weren't throwing work away, including customers checks.

Folks started losing their lunch in the refrigerators on various floors in different buildings. We had a lunch thief. A billion dollar company handling other people's money there's some clown stealing lunches.

He was found, someone audited his trash and found the stolen lunches he'd been throwing away in his trash! Sometimes karma has a sense of humor.

 

[REWahoo]

Our company sold products and services to banks and often hired sales reps with banking experience. We hired a very polished lady who had worked for a large local bank for years. She wore expensive clothes and what appeared to be high-dollar jewelry, something you wouldn't expect to see from the notoriously low-paying banking industry, much less our sales salaries.

I thought her husband might have a high paying job or otherwise be financially well off, but discovered he drove a truck for a local beer distributor. Something didn't add up.

After a few weeks we learned she'd left the bank under a cloud of suspicion. Auditors later discovered she'd been skimming interest from Certificate of Deposit accounts by telling the customer the rate for their new or renewal CD was 1/8 or 1/16 of a percent lower than the actual rate and somehow divert the difference into a separate account that she could access. She'd been a the bank for several years so this amount could have been substantial, although we never learned how much she got away with.

The bank was so concerned about negative publicity that they did not want to prosecute, but apparently used that threat to convince her to move out of state. Don't know if the bank was able to recuperate any of their losses

 

[gauss]

This comes at a strange time . A friend of ours has a small company and his office manager went out and created American Ex. cards then ran them up . This person did this for over 2 years . The result was nearly 300K . Now Amex has made his company right and the person has been arrested and is bonded out , but the dirty laundry is awful . Seems Amex doesn't play around.

Well that is certainly consistent with all those Karl Malden Amex TV commercials back in the 70's/80's.

 

[travelover]

When I worked for MegaMotors, we'd give new vehicles to small businesses, for free, that promised to use them extensively and report any failures - like airport taxis, delivery services, etc. They can really rack up a lot of miles fast and uncover real world use issues, like passenger doors that wear out prematurely, that could escape normal durability testing.

It turned out the engineers running the program would send out a few totally optioned out trucks which would sit in a garage and never move. The conspirators would submit periodic repair orders and faked maintenance logs, then when the test period was over, "scrap" the trucks which were supposed to be worn out. Of course, they were still new and got them a nice price. Not sure how the profits were split, but engineers got canned and prosecuted.

A few years later we found out that the woman running our test / run around fleet has pulled a few choice vehicles out for her and her families exclusive use. It was a petty theft, but it got her fired, as well.

 

[brett]

I sat beside a drug store chain employee on a long flight. He was a senior manager in the loss prevention dept. One of their large store franchisees suspected a theft problem. They tried a number of things to catch the person including placing one of his people on staff. No go.

He was on his way back to HQ. His group went in at night and set up hidden cameras over the various cash area. Caught the poor woman in a few days. She was 15 year employee. She had been taking about $100. week for years. Possibly more...whose is really to know.

I fired a newly promoted manager a number of years ago. He had a bright future. He stole about 5K worth of IT products. One was an Xmas gift for his spouse. Sad really because these things never leave your job history in the industry/city that I was in. He ended up in a different industry.

 

[Keim]

A little follow-up:
Law enforcement has strong concerns, and is bringing in a specially trained financial investigation unit. Meanwhile, the person in question is NOT being kept from her organizations money (My organization has split from the remaining group over the issue and is still assessing damage), and I'm being called the bad guy. Fun times!

 

[Rianne]

My parents had a restaurant when I was in high school. One of the waitresses husband worked for a bank. Really nice couple, she was always on time and worked well with everyone. My oldest brother and his wife went out with them often, to dinner etc. The husband was embezzling big bucks from the bank he worked at. I recall this being such a shock to everyone who knew them. I was young but liked them a lot. He went to prison but I'm not sure if he's still there 45 years later. I always wondered if his wife (the waitress) knew.

 

[Amethyst]

Yet we hear, all the time, of aged people whose knick-knacks, jewelry and basically anything stealable quickly disappear, once household "help" has to be brought in.

How rotten and low can you get, how could you even stand yourself, to steal a helpless old lady's nice things that she has treasured for 50+ years?

That said, I just don't UNDERSTAND why anybody would embezzle money. Seriously, don't they even THINK about it just a teeny little bit? I mean, consider the options:

Door #1: Taking on the risks, the deception, the sneaking around, lying, and the fact that you'd have to accept that you are a lousy, slimy, no good son of a whatever for the rest of your entire life and that when (not if) you are discovered, everybody will hate you and you may end up with no money, no friends, no job, no nothing, even a police record or (I have no idea!) jail time?

.

 

[MRG]

Yet we hear, all the time, of aged people whose knick-knacks, jewelry and basically anything stealable quickly disappear, once household "help" has to be brought in.

How rotten and low can you get, how could you even stand yourself, to steal a helpless old lady's nice things that she has treasured for 50+ years?

We had this happen when we moved. All kinds of little stuff that's only real value was sentimental to DW. Her mother's and grandmother's watches, cross necklaces.... they had no real value for anyone except her. We hid anything with real value, this wasn't marketable. Gone, I know which person did it, poor sob was hungry. I'd have happily fed him for a month to not steal that stuff.

 

[audreyh1]

A little follow-up:
Law enforcement has strong concerns, and is bringing in a specially trained financial investigation unit. Meanwhile, the person in question is NOT being kept from her organizations money (My organization has split from the remaining group over the issue and is still assessing damage), and I'm being called the bad guy. Fun times!

Thanks for the update. Really curious to hear the rest of the story.

Your organization split which made you look like the bad guy? What does that mean?

 

[Keim]

Thanks for the update. Really curious to hear the rest of the story.

Your organization split which made you look like the bad guy? What does that mean?

I'm curious to hear the rest of the story, too!

In answer to your question: After announcing our imminent departure I was presented with strong evidence of potential fraud. I had to make their board of directors aware of it, notify cops, etc. That board thinks the person in question can do no wrong.

 

[Walt34]

In answer to your question: After announcing our imminent departure I was presented with strong evidence of potential fraud. I had to make their board of directors aware of it, notify cops, etc. That board thinks the person in question can do no wrong.

This makes sense. Shooting the messenger has a long history.

Do keep us updated!

 

[Keim]

This makes sense. Shooting the messenger has a long history.

Do keep us updated!

Yes, indeed. And I knew it would happen when I did it. I'm sure they think we're just trying to kick them on our way out the door. My group just wanted to get out, assess damage from the accounting irregularities, and move on. Couldn't shirk our legal responsibility to report suspected financial fraud when we were given the evidence.

Boy was that an uncomfortable conversation with the board president. Him: "I 100% believe our administrator." Me: "I pray you are right, because if you are wrong we are ALL in financial trouble. You HAVE to have a CPA investigate this regardless of what you believe."

 

[RunningBum]

My parents had a restaurant when I was in high school. One of the waitresses husband worked for a bank. Really nice couple, she was always on time and worked well with everyone. My oldest brother and his wife went out with them often, to dinner etc. The husband was embezzling big bucks from the bank he worked at. I recall this being such a shock to everyone who knew them. I was young but liked them a lot. He went to prison but I'm not sure if he's still there 45 years later. I always wondered if his wife (the waitress) knew.

Not 45 years later. My dad worked at a bank in the 70s and one of the officers was embezzling money by making false loans. I don't know if they were investing and planning to pay back, or put the loan into default and keep the money, or what. The guy got caught and went to country club jail for a few years. He called it that because the guy was given a list of things he could bring, and I swear a tennis racket was one of them. Even bigger bucks don't get you 45 years, I'm pretty sure, unless it was done at gunpoint.

 

[Rianne]

Not 45 years later. My dad worked at a bank in the 70s and one of the officers was embezzling money by making false loans. I don't know if they were investing and planning to pay back, or put the loan into default and keep the money, or what. The guy got caught and went to country club jail for a few years. He called it that because the guy was given a list of things he could bring, and I swear a tennis racket was one of them. Even bigger bucks don't get you 45 years, I'm pretty sure, unless it was done at gunpoint.

Good to know, maybe it is worth a try. What's a few years in the can with the possibility you won't get caught!

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes, indeed. And I knew it would happen when I did it. I'm sure they think we're just trying to kick them on our way out the door. My group just wanted to get out, assess damage from the accounting irregularities, and move on. Couldn't shirk our legal responsibility to report suspected financial fraud when we were given the evidence.

Boy was that an uncomfortable conversation with the board president. Him: "I 100% believe our administrator." Me: "I pray you are right, because if you are wrong we are ALL in financial trouble. You HAVE to have a CPA investigate this regardless of what you believe."

Duh, how do you think the administrator got away with it Mr Board President..?

 

[kcowan]

BIL in first marriage was a bank branch manager. He embezzled all the funds from his aunt. 2+ million! We discovered it during the estate sale after she had died. I left it to first DW to handle it. So instead of a 25% share in the estate, he got 100%. DW got 0 instead of $500k.

Ironically, my cousin was married to his boss, and during one of our dinners, I said I thought BIL was ready to retire. He was offered a nice package and retired to Scottsdale.

 

[ivinsfan]

BIL in first marriage was a bank branch manager. He embezzled all the funds from his aunt. 2+ million! We discovered it during the estate sale after she had died. I left it to first DW to handle it. So instead of a 25% share in the estate, he got 100%. DW got 0 instead of $500k.

Ironically, my cousin was married to his boss, and during one of our dinners, I said I thought BIL was ready to retire. He was offered a nice package and retired to Scottsdale.

Well don't leave us hanging did he go to prison? And why didn't he have to make some restitution?

 

[Keim]

I thought I'd provide an update. Lots of water under the bridge since I wrote this!


In the intervening months the organization we split from has done their very best to run us out of business. They've attempted to spend all of the money they could access in our corporate account, tie up our remaining money in banking investigations, tried to get local police to secure our building, place our staff on administrative leave, etc. We've also found out their CEO served time in prison-and is on parole for-financial crimes. We've successfully fought all their efforts and continue to serve our clientele.

Finally, in mid December, my organizations lawyer suggested we go a little public. We wrote a serious of letters documenting what had happened, our proof, and how we had been treated. Then released them to the other organizations members and some important business partners. That appears to have brought them to the table, and we are now entering into a facilitation to end the fight.

Fun times!