Europe: Premium Economy Plus Seats vs. Wholesale Discounted Business Class Seats?

[cyber888]

Premium Economy + Seats
I was wondering which airlines you like most for booking on a Premium Economy Seat to a European city. I heard that some airlines have upgraded their Premium Economy Plus Seat to the top of the line in the industry.
While ordinary tickets may cost $800-$1000, these Premium Economy seats can cost $1500 and up. Any feedback if you like the seats ?

Business Class Seats
I was also wondering if you ever used Discounted WholeSale websites like WholeSale-Flights.com, TravelBusinessclass.com, or BusinessClass Consolidator, and instead just got the Business Class seats .. read some positive and some negative feedback about these business class ticket wholesalers. Business Class seats to EU is at $3800-$4200 now, but I heard these wholesalers can give it to you for $2,100-$2,500. Anyone used them yet ?

 

[skyking1]

I booked our August trip to the UK in Premium economy. I'll report back.

 

[cyber888]

I booked our August trip to the UK in Premium economy. I'll report back.

Thanks ! Bon voyage!

 

[Freedom56]

We always fly business class within North America and to Europe. I looked into many websites that claim to have business class fares but they didn't come through with any great deals. I really didn't want to fly TAP Air Portugal or Iberia Airline. I use Google Flights to locate the best deals and book directly with the airlines. You can set up fare alerts. You have to book when they have specials and book at least 3 months in advance to get the best deals. Prior to 2012 we were paying typically $3800-$4500 for business class tickets to Europe. In 2019 we paid $2940 for business class on Virgin Atlantic/British Airways from LAX-LHR-GVA. In 2020 the same segment on the same airlines was $2460 but was cancelled due to the pandemic and we were eventually refunded our money. In 2021 we paid $2820 for business class on Air France from LAX-CDG-GVA. For our next trip during the last week of August 2022, we booked Air Canada Business Class on their A330 from LAX-YUL-GVA for $3012. We booked the tickets in April. Air Canada has lie flat seating on both segments unlike other carriers that provide regular seating for the short segment of the flight with the middle seat locked out. I did notice that with Air Canada offered premium economy for $1242 plus $25 for lounge access at each airport. The premium economy seating on the Air Canada A330 is identical to first/business class seats on their smaller A220 aircraft that they fly within North America. We have never tried premium economy however they seem okay. It's really aircraft dependent.

This video will help explain the difference.

 

[Unpaintedhuffhines]

Good post, Freedom56. Correct that seating is highly dependent on the airline, but generally speaking, think of premium economy on a transatlantic as similar to domestic first class. If you are okay with that, then by all means, book it. For us, the main thing that (most) business class products offer is lie flat seating, allowing you a better chance at a few hours sleep. You do have to check because older aircraft may not offer lie flat, but that is getting rarer these days.

Personally I’d be leery of websites that offer those kind of deals. If things go perfectly to plan it could work, but I’d be nervous about any normal travel disruption and what situation you’d be in there.

I like google flights to give you the best seat and to let you know if you are getting a deal. It’s pretty comprehensive.

 

[Freedom56]

I agree we like the lie flat seating and hence we buy business class. For domestic first class, we sometimes use Jet Blue Mint service or American Airlines 787 and 777 service which also features lie flat seating from LAX to DWF, MIA, and FLL.

 

[Souschef]

We are on the West Coast, so European flights are 10 to 12 hours. We fly Business Class as we can actually sleep on these flights.
Another benefit is the Business Class lounge at many airports. At LAX, for example, we get there early and have a light dinner in the lounge, far away from the hubbub in the terminal or the gate.

 

[Chuckanut]

I flew Premium Economy on an 8 hour flight to Frankfurt once. The seats are old-fashioned 1st class - big, wide and roomy. Lots of leg room. But, none of the lie flat seating that some people use for sleeping in today's business class. Most extra cost goodies are included in the price.

If I was under 6 feet tall I probably would not spring for the extra expense, which is substantial. But, I'm not, so I do purchase premium economy on flights that are much longer than 3 hours. FWIW, I would rather have an aisle seat in regular coach than a window seat in Premium Economy.

 

[NW-Bound]

I booked our August trip to the UK in Premium economy. I'll report back.

I just booked premium economy seats for our September trip to Europe. The airline is British Airways. We don't really have a choice of airlines for our itinerary, unless we don't mind 2 or 3 stops, and also having layovers of 15 hours.

I have a feeling we are going to like it. Too cheap to pay for business class seats, all I need is a few more degrees of reclining so that I can sleep better.

 

[Gotadimple]

Premium economy depends on the airline, in terms of comfort. I think that Lufthansa's Premium Economy the best seats, they are very comfortable in terms of padding and leg room is great. I'm not sure I'd pay $1500 which may be more than the economy airfair. I've flown Lufthansa when they would auction PE seats for under $300.

United seats are no more comfortable than in Economy class with a smidgen more leg room - generally not worth the extra $ unless you can get it for under $200.

 

[Chuckanut]

Premium economy depends on the airline, in terms of comfort. I think that Lufthansa's Premium Economy the best seats, they are very comfortable in terms of padding and leg room is great. I'm not sure I'd pay $1500 which may be more than the economy airfair. I've flown Lufthansa when they would auction PE seats for under $300.

United seats are no more comfortable than in Economy class with a smidgen more leg room - generally not worth the extra $ unless you can get it for under $200.

Some airline's Premium economy is nothing more than a few inches of extra leg room, earlier boarding, first dibs on overhead space near your seat, and perhaps 'free' adult beverages. The seats are often the same narrow, thinly padded ones in regular coach. Foot rests? You gotta be kidding!

 

[walkinwood]

I flew Premium Economy on Lufthansa (New Delhi-Munich-Denver) in Jan 2020.


The seats are pretty much like the first-class seats on domestic US flights with a leg-rest that folds up as you recline. It is no lie-flat comfort, but it was much, much better than a regular economy seat and we felt it worth the additional cost.


Premium-Economy on domestic United flights is just a regular seat at the front of the plane with more legroom. Same for Frontier. We've found the extra legroom worth a little extra money for the longer domestic flights.


As a previous poster pointed out, use flights.google.com to track prices. They fluctuate a lot even months out.

 

[NW-Bound]

On a long international flight with 2 or more legs, the short-haul legs are on smaller planes for domestic flights, and these planes do not have premium economy seats. You get a coach seat. And this applies to short flights in the US as well as inside the EU.

Therefore, I picked the flights that have the longest leg in a large airplane. For my itinerary, that's the non-stop Phoenix-Heathrow leg. That leg is 10-hr long eastbound, and 11-hr long westbound.

I think I am going to get my money's worth.

Just out of curiosity, just check on YouTube to see what the seats look like. Eastbound will be on British Airways A350. Return flight on American B777. Seats look OK on both.


PS. When flying coach to Europe, I often had to catch a Southwest flight to LAX, in order to get on a non-stop flight LAX-CDG, or LAX-LHR. That's a long leg! Coach seats on international-flight planes are a heck of a lot more comfortable than coach seats in domestic flights. I hate the latter.

Flying across the US can be a 5-to-6 hour flight, and in a coach seat for that long can be torture. I once suffered a flight that still traumatizes me to this day.

 

[bmcgonig]

Just got back from Italy and flew Premium Plus from SFO on United. Paid 1800 for it back in March. Very comfortable seats, lots of legroom, legs could stretch under the seat in front.

I’ve aLso flown United Polaris Biz on similar trip. The seats have more cushion and of course lie flat. But for the extra $2000 I’m ok with PPlus.

 

[oiseux]

Just got back from Italy and flew Premium Plus from SFO on United. Paid 1800 for it back in March. Very comfortable seats, lots of legroom, legs could stretch under the seat in front.

I’ve aLso flown United Polaris Biz on similar trip. The seats have more cushion and of course lie flat. But for the extra $2000 I’m ok with PPlus.

Yes, there is a difference on United Premium Economy and Premium Plus on international. The latter has a longer seat pitch and is slightly wider. Services and seat amenities are only slightly upgraded. I don't think they compare really to any domestic first class. The big thing is the extra leg room (which you can get in a PE bulkhead seat) and the extra width. The best seats are on the 787s and 767s.


Here is the link from Seat Guru that give you the deets on each seat/aircraft combo. Search on your exact flight number to figure out the exact configuration. You can see how some configurations and aircrafts overlap in seat size and pitch between classes.
https://www.seatguru.com/charts/premium_economy.php#chart

 

[cyber888]

Thanks for the tips and the video. The flight google search is nice.

Some of the cheapest business class lowest prices default to Icelandair though, and my understanding is that Icelandair's business class is not a Lie Flat seat, but an old business class seat that does not lie flat, so that's why their business class is $1,100 cheaper. Will keep looking

We always fly business class within North America and to Europe. I looked into many websites that claim to have business class fares but they didn't come through with any great deals. I really didn't want to fly TAP Air Portugal or Iberia Airline. I use Google Flights to locate the best deals and book directly with the airlines. You can set up fare alerts. You have to book when they have specials and book at least 3 months in advance to get the best deals. Prior to 2012 we were paying typically $3800-$4500 for business class tickets to Europe. In 2019 we paid $2940 for business class on Virgin Atlantic/British Airways from LAX-LHR-GVA. In 2020 the same segment on the same airlines was $2460 but was cancelled due to the pandemic and we were eventually refunded our money. In 2021 we paid $2820 for business class on Air France from LAX-CDG-GVA. For our next trip during the last week of August 2022, we booked Air Canada Business Class on their A330 from LAX-YUL-GVA for $3012. We booked the tickets in April. Air Canada has lie flat seating on both segments unlike other carriers that provide regular seating for the short segment of the flight with the middle seat locked out. I did notice that with Air Canada offered premium economy for $1242 plus $25 for lounge access at each airport. The premium economy seating on the Air Canada A330 is identical to first/business class seats on their smaller A220 aircraft that they fly within North America. We have never tried premium economy however they seem okay. It's really aircraft dependent.

This video will help explain the difference.

 

[Freedom56]

Thanks for the tips and the video. The flight google search is nice.

Some of the cheapest business class lowest prices default to Icelandair though, and my understanding is that Icelandair's business class is not a Lie Flat seat, but an old business class seat that does not lie flat, so that's why their business class is $1,100 cheaper. Will keep looking

Business class seat sales for the following spring/summer start in early September. This has been the case for the past 22 years. I have never flown Iceland Air Business Class but here is how I rank Business Class service on various airlines from the last 32 years of flying (work and retirement).

Domestic -

The Best - Jet Blue Mint (lie flat seating, great food and service)
Above Average - American Airlines 787/777 (lie flat seating, great food)
Air Canada 787 (lie flat seating, great food, lounge service)

Average - Delta, Alaska, American Airlines A320/310

International

Best - (lie flat seating, great food, great lounges)
Virgin Atlantic (overall cool experience, amazing lounge)
Turkish Airlines (best food ever)
Lufthansa
Swiss
Emirates
Singapore airlines (amazing lounge)

Good - (lie flat seating, good food, okay lounges)
KLM
EVA Air
British Airways
Air Canada
American Airlines
United
Air France

Avoid - Bad All around
TAP Air Portugal
Iberia Airlines
Alitalia
Aeroflot

Thankfully sanctions will keep you away Aeroflot, the worst of them all. They should be permanently banned from North American airspace.

 

[athena53]

Good - (lie flat seating, good food, okay lounges)
KLM
EVA Air
British Airways
Air Canada
American Airlines
United
Air France

I just flew United to Munich and their Polaris Lounge at ORD is fantastic- showers, nap areas, great food selection. Makes the Admiral's Club look pitiful by comparison.

OTOH, food service in flight was pitiful. Meals were all served at once (including a little container of ice cream for dessert ) and breakfast on landing included "egg white bites" that were nasty- doughy texture and cold in the middle. Reheating would not have helped much. Dessert on the flight home from Munich was - a Kit Kat Bar. Really? No menu or wine list with a description of the offerings. "What white wines do you have?" "A Chablis and a local white".

I did read that they're back to serving multiple courses in Polaris class again.

Yes, this is petty in the grand scheme of things but charging a few thousand $$ extra for a "premium" service and then saving $10 in the food is stingy.

 

[Freedom56]

This is what they gave us on our flight during the month of December 2021 from CDG to LAX on Air France Business Class. We were still under pandemic restrictions back then. The Omicron variant was starting to surge during that month and week we were flying back. The food did taste good. Dinner was a multi-course meal with multiple selections. They had a good selection of wines. Breakfast was single course. They also had a breakfast buffet set up if you wanted something else. You could also get hot and cold snacks throughout the flight. The food service was much better pre-pandemic on Air France but still still acceptable considering the situation.

 

[athena53]

This is what they gave us on our flight during the month of December 2021 from CDG to LAX on Air France Business Class.

Yeah, that's what I'm used to- maybe a little less lavish but far better than what I got on United. With business travel still recovering they should be doing everything they can to get leisure passengers in paid Business Class. Skimping on the meals doesn't help.

 

[brett]

Premium Economy + Seats
I was wondering which airlines you like most for booking on a Premium Economy Seat to a European city. I heard that some airlines have upgraded their Premium Economy Plus Seat to the top of the line in the industry.
While ordinary tickets may cost $800-$1000, these Premium Economy seats can cost $1500 and up. Any feedback if you like the seats ?

Business Class Seats
I was also wondering if you ever used Discounted WholeSale websites like WholeSale-Flights.com, TravelBusinessclass.com, or BusinessClass Consolidator, and instead just got the Business Class seats .. read some positive and some negative feedback about these business class ticket wholesalers. Business Class seats to EU is at $3800-$4200 now, but I heard these wholesalers can give it to you for $2,100-$2,500. Anyone used them yet ?

It depends on the airline. You can go on their respective web sites to see exactly what the sea pitch is in economy and in premium economy.

We did premium economy on a one way TAP flight last month to Lisbon and Madeira. The cost delta was not high considering they bundle in extra luggage allowance (no use to us because we only do carry on) The big draw was being able to cancel for a refund if we had to.

The seat was fine. Pitch was good. New aircraft. Excellent service.

 

[Unpaintedhuffhines]

Of course, if there is a three cabin (First, Business, Economy), you can always fly in First, which is usually outstanding. Admittedly, it can be a little spendy, but I was able to upgrade LHR-AUS from Business to First for only $750 (this was pre-pandemic). Better food, better booze, some really nice pajamas, all for less than $100/hour!

 

[athena53]

I flew Premium Economy a few years ago on an AA flight home from London. Not bad- I got a window seat behind the bulkhead row with no seat i front of me. Infinite legroom! As brett says, depends in the aircraft. seatguru_dot_com is good for evaluating individual seats on a flight, providing they don't change the aircraft.

 

[oiseux]

I just flew United to Munich and their Polaris Lounge at ORD is fantastic- showers, nap areas, great food selection. Makes the Admiral's Club look pitiful by comparison.

OTOH, food service in flight was pitiful. Meals were all served at once (including a little container of ice cream for dessert ) and breakfast on landing included "egg white bites" that were nasty- doughy texture and cold in the middle. Reheating would not have helped much. Dessert on the flight home from Munich was - a Kit Kat Bar. Really? No menu or wine list with a description of the offerings. "What white wines do you have?" "A Chablis and a local white".

I did read that they're back to serving multiple courses in Polaris class again.

Yes, this is petty in the grand scheme of things but charging a few thousand $$ extra for a "premium" service and then saving $10 in the food is stingy.

It is too bad they have not restored the normal service for in-flight. I googled it and found that they just restored it for long haul flights, well after all the other airlines. I don't know what their flimsy excuse was
https://liveandletsfly.com/united-airlines-polaris-dining/
But it is not saying much.... the tart looks good
https://liveandletsfly.com/united-airlines-international-business-class-menu/



When operating, the Polaris lounge is great. PreC, they had a sit down restaurant where you could have a cooked to order meal that was better than anything in the terminal

The various business classes I've flown for work on my own blend together, but I was usually on United. Best to worst, transcontinental long haul:

Singapore (the best service in the old 747s where you had the upper deck)
Cathay
the defunct BMI (great british Indian dishes)
SAS
Swiss
BA
United (Polaris lounge is a better experience)
Lufthansa

 

[luckydude]

I flew on AA's premium cattle, eh, economy class from LA to Heathrow at the beginning of the June, and not by choice. I wanted to book BA's business class but DW talked me into booking premium econ with AA and said she has unused points that could be used to upgrade me to AA biz class. Except the flight was overbooked and I ended up getting stuck in premium econ for the 10 hour flight.

Positives: seat pitch and leg room better than I expected; dinner was serviceable.

Negative: for breakfast, I was served a cold piece of croissant, a cold plate of fruits, and a yogurt. I really wanted something warm, but the only thing above room temp was coffee. Also, I got stuck between two families with young kids, and they were, eh, pretty noisy throughout the flight. Bad rest.

Luckily I hedged my bet and booked biz class (AA flight operated by BA) for the return flight next week (still touring country houses in East Anglia at the moment). Hopefully no more screaming kids next to me and something warm for breakfast for the flight home.

No more premium cattle class for me.