Expect a big jump in gasoline prices

CardsFan said:
Is there some law against using them both? No. Wait, That could be coming.
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I'm always fascinated to see states (at least just states so far) stating that they will be off fossil fuels by such and such date. I think Hawaii is something like 2050 but don't quote me. So far, we've (IMHO) messed up virtually every attempt to get off fossil fuels. There were really serious protests as we built a dozen or so wind turbines (I've forgotten if it was fear of disturbing native burials - I try to be respectful, but realistically, with a 800 to 1400 year history, there have potentially been burials everywhere.) It may have been the presence of old worship areas. Not really certain. It got so bad that the contractors tried to move the blades at night - didn't work. Project was held up for days and there were dozens of arrests - reasonably certain they never prosecute such "crimes."

Taking NO sides on the issue. BUT we will never get off fossil if there is a constituency against the alternatives. Who could be against direct solar to electricity (aka solar panels) - I hear you ask? Umm, the electric company, of course. I do understand that they can not absorb too much, they can't store it, they actually have to pay people for their "extra." What's not to love.:facepalm:

Sorry! Now returning you to our discussion of jumping gas prices since YMMV.
 
CardsFan said:
Point taken, but none the less, we as a country have a LOT of energy in the ground. Not using it seems senseless to me.
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Senseless? Well, there is this viewpoint for perspective: The carbon and its associated energy buried in the ground was accumulated slowly, over hundreds of millions of years. HEY! I have an idea! Let's dig it ALL up and burn it over the span of 500 years! What could possibly go wrong?
 
Sunset said:
We have a lot of sunlight and wind too. Use them all !
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and nuclear. solar and wind will likely never be able to provide most of our energy needs...especially in the northern climes. that lesson was learned last month in Tejas, er, Texas.
 
Koolau said:
BUT we will never get off fossil if there is a constituency against the alternatives. Who could be against direct solar to electricity (aka solar panels) - I hear you ask? Umm, the electric company, of course. I do understand that they can not absorb too much, they can't store it, they actually have to pay people for their "extra." What's not to love.:facepalm:

Sorry! Now returning you to our discussion of jumping gas prices since YMMV.
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I have a well. Maybe I can force the municipality to buy my extra water :LOL:
 
Music Lover said:
I have a well. Maybe I can force the municipality to buy my extra water :LOL:
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Heh, heh, the electric company wasn't forced by the owners of the solar panels to buy the excess electricity. THAT was courtesy of the state and/or county gummint. It was also to the electric company's advantage (from time to time) as they buy wholesale and sell retail. Also, no customer can sell more than their bill (zeroed out bill - can't actually "sell" to the electric co. The customer STILL pays all the add-ons, so a "zero" bills is over $20 just to be "connected.") So, it's not simple. I understand that integration of the added solar isn't an easy thing for an old electric co. to deal with.

Multiply the issues of just simple solar panels and we see that we won't be solving the carbon issues any time soon. But YMMV.
 
Out-to-Lunch said:
Senseless? Well, there is this viewpoint for perspective: The carbon and its associated energy buried in the ground was accumulated slowly, over hundreds of millions of years. HEY! I have an idea! Let's dig it ALL up and burn it over the span of 500 years! What could possibly go wrong?
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It's a big problem. No easy solutions. I think we've shown this TED talk on replacing carbon with renewables but it's worth repeating. Take away, it won't be easy, cheap or fast (can't even pick two as the old saying goes.)

https://www.ted.com/talks/david_mackay_a_reality_check_on_renewables
 
Meh...gas has been up to $4/gallon where I live before. The world didnt end. Im not sweating it.
 
Well it's winter I'll be buying a couple more tanks of gasoline before switching to electricity.
 
No expecting gas prices to rise here, it's a done deal. Gas generally up around $.40/gal in past couple weeks. It was going up before the TX freeze, but has certainly accelerated the increases in the last week. I don't think gas prices will come down, as typical summer increased driving raises prices every year. Combine that with potential increased regulation and taxes on carbon fuels, and the longer term outlook seems to be higher gas prices will be around this year and future.
 
Koolau said:
I'm always fascinated to see states (at least just states so far) stating that they will be off fossil fuels by such and such date. I think Hawaii is something like 2050 but don't quote me. So far, we've (IMHO) messed up virtually every attempt to get off fossil fuels. There were really serious protests as we built a dozen or so wind turbines (I've forgotten if it was fear of disturbing native burials - I try to be respectful, but realistically, with a 800 to 1400 year history, there have potentially been burials everywhere.) It may have been the presence of old worship areas. Not really certain. It got so bad that the contractors tried to move the blades at night - didn't work. Project was held up for days and there were dozens of arrests - reasonably certain they never prosecute such "crimes."

Taking NO sides on the issue. BUT we will never get off fossil if there is a constituency against the alternatives. Who could be against direct solar to electricity (aka solar panels) - I hear you ask? Umm, the electric company, of course. I do understand that they can not absorb too much, they can't store it, they actually have to pay people for their "extra." What's not to love.:facepalm:

Sorry! Now returning you to our discussion of jumping gas prices since YMMV.
Click to expand...


I think one of the biggest issues is one of the "not in my backyard" mentality. We all know examples so I won't list any here (and run amuck of the forum rules). Texas and Oklahoma ranchers are quite happy to have these put on their land as the leases can be pretty lucrative. My FIL would LOVE to have some out on his land and has been quite disappointed that they haven't coming knocking on his door as of yet. :D

Another issue is that of the sheer number of people on the earth. This number continues to grow which means more energy required. There is no simple solution.
 
Out-to-Lunch said:
Senseless? Well, there is this viewpoint for perspective: The carbon and its associated energy buried in the ground was accumulated slowly, over hundreds of millions of years. HEY! I have an idea! Let's dig it ALL up and burn it over the span of 500 years! What could possibly go wrong?
Click to expand...

Yes, we will run out sooner or later. But what most people forget is how much pollution, disease, and hardship that fossil fuels have prevented. Before fossil fuels 30% of all crop growth was required just to feed work animals. New York had to deal with over 3 million pounds of horse manure and 40,000 gallons of urine each and every single day.
 
Got gas today at $2.899/gal. Top tier gas instead of el cheapo. Still waay less than $4 and change many years ago.
 
We've gone from $2.09 to $2.69 in just over a month. I'm still carrying about a half tank of $2.09, but that will get burned up this weekend. Guess I'll feel the pain in a few days.
 
The main reason gasoline prices are rising is the Saudis and Russians are still agreeing on the continuation of a curtailment of about 9,000,000 barrels per day or crude oil production. That amount will keep worldwide supply slightly below demand and push crude prices up. Thus recent crude prices here (WTI) are about $67/bbl. I'm not sure of Brent pricing.

Couple that with the week long+ loss of refining capacity here in the Gulf, refined product stores are low.
 
audreyh1 said:
Remembering how oil prices crashed about 1 year ago, this is truly amazing to see.
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I agree. On the positive side my COP stock keeps shooting higher and since we are hardly driving we are way ahead at the moment:cool:
 
Yet another advantage to being retired. We barely drove 3,000 miles last year so our gas consumption is pretty low.
 
To put things into perspective, here in WA state, the guv wants to increase the gas tax and create a new carbon tax. Total gasoline taxes will be close to $1 a gallon if he gets his way. That is on top of any increase in the price of crude oil. Lucky us.
 
Mark1 said:
Right now, steam cracking into ethylene/propylene is the most obvious place to put gasoline range material. However, the migration will be slow and in the end the gasoline range material will just follow the money.
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True, but that will only work if you have an integrated polymer plant on the site or else access to a pipeline for the ethylene and propylene. With all of the new gas liquids capacity that has come on line from new natural gas fields in recent years, is there an excess of ethylene and propylene?
 
ExFlyBoy5 said:
Yet another advantage to being retired. We barely drove 3,000 miles last year so our gas consumption is pretty low.
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Primarily due to Covid, we drove fewer than 1000 miles last year. Still on my first tank of gas for the year, though I'm below 1/2 tank now - guess I better go find out the "damage" at Costco Gas. Last time was $2.70/gal. They typically do not spike like the other local stations. They creep up, apparently depending on their actual current costs - what a concept, but YMMV.
 
I just finished up pouring the last of extra gas in the trucks gas tank(s) that I had bought before the big freeze a few weeks ago. I needed less than 15 gallons for the generators during the "event"... I usually keep about 10 gallons for the typically power outages we have around here but I really stocked up for the big one.... Glad I had it and glad I didn't need that much.


Heck I would have paid $10+ a gallon a few days before the big freeze hit but I think I got it for about $2....
 
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