FDA: Best Practices for Re-Opening Retail Food Establishments

[MrLoco]

^ If that's the case, 30% of us, roughly 100,000,000 in the US, will NOT get Covid 19.

No way am I going to give up and take my chances with the virus (including possible death or permanent disability). I'm going to do everything within reason to remain a member of the Hundred Million Club.

Ok. I understand and respect your point. So I guess you will be at the front of the line when the FDA announces a vaccine is now available for Covid 19?

Just curious.

 

[Midpack]

Do you really want to in the first wave of those receiving the vaccine? Not me. I would rather take my chance with the virus. Actually, myself, and most of us may not have a choice.

70% of us will probably be Covid19 + in the near future.
About 230,000,000 of us. And that is just in the USA. Over 5 billion infected world wide.

^ If that's the case, 30% of us, roughly 100,000,000 in the US, will NOT get Covid 19.

No way am I going to give up and take my chances with the virus (including possible death or permanent disability). I'm going to do everything within reason to remain a member of the Hundred Million Club.

Not to argue either POV as I assume neither mean this to an extreme. I think most of us are in the middle - we’re not planning on literally staying at home until there’s a vaccine or the virus naturally dies out, and we’re not throwing up our hands disregarding all preacutions waiting to get infected.

Most are wearing masks, hand washing/sanitizing more frequently, maintaining distance, and/or limiting trips as practical to avoid infection as long as possible - but knowing we’ll probably get infected eventually if there aren’t therapies or vaccines sooner than projected. I’m not inviting infection, but I’m not living in fear of it either.

I do realize there’s a lot we still don’t know, which makes it difficult for us all. But if all the reopenings do lead to a much worse second wave, or we learn more about SARS-CoV-2 permanent side effects being way more common, we may have to reconsider. We don’t know if we’re in the 8th inning or the 2nd. YMMV

 

[REWahoo]

Ok. I understand and respect your point. So I guess you will be at the front of the line when the FDA announces a vaccine is now available for Covid 19?

Just curious.

Front of the line? Probably not.

Can't really say until a vaccine is developed and I have a chance to review the data. I'm generally cautious and will likely take a wait and see attitude, at least for a while.

 

[REWahoo]

Not to argue either POV as I assume neither mean this to an extreme.

Note my "within reason" qualifier. I don't plan on staying in the underground bunker indefinitely.

 

[gwraigty]

Not to argue either POV as I assume neither mean this to an extreme. I think most of us are in the middle - we’re not planning on literally staying at home until there’s a vaccine or the virus naturally dies out, and we’re not throwing up our hands disregarding all preacutions waiting to get infected. Most are wearing masks, hand washing/sanitizing more frequently, maintaining distance, and/or limiting trips as practical to avoid infection as long as possible - but knowing we’ll probably get infected eventually if there aren’t therapies or vaccines sooner than projected. I’m not inviting infection, but I’m not living in fear of it either. I do realize there’s a lot we still don’t know, which makes it difficult for us all. YMMV

+1

I'd be willing to get a vaccine, but I'm not sure about willingly being among the first in line. My guess, and this is really off topic, is that priorities for who gets it first will be implemented. Look at current priorities for testing and those will be who gets pushed to the front of the line. It might even be mandatory for some groups, like those who work in health care facilities and first responders. They'll target LTC facilities. If/When a vaccine is first available, the general public will be waiting a long, long time for a place in line.

 

[audreyh1]

Yes, I’m assuming it will be a while before most people, including somewhat older folks like me, have access to a vaccine.

 

[audreyh1]

What does “living in fear” mean anyway? Some people seem to think taking any precautions at all is “living in fear”. If I choose to avoid crowds, wear a mask and gloves to the store, interact little with others in person, and avoid dining inside restaurants, am I “living in fear”?

Sorry - the criticizing slogans about fear have gotten to me, because I don’t even begin to understand what people mean, and I wonder whether many of them even understand themselves what they are saying.

 

[Aerides]

What does “living in fear” mean anyway? Some people seem to think taking any precautions at all is “living in fear”. If I choose to avoid crowds, wear a mask and gloves to the store, and avoid dining inside restaurants, am I “living in fear”?

I agree it's never said kindly, and almost always a negative disparaging judgment, so it would be more courteous for folks to avoid using that to refer to one another here.

I wear a seatbelt, I don't ride a motorcycle without a helmet. I don't think I'll ever opt to take a helicopter. There are sensible ways to get through life carefully, with minimal disruption to my happiness, which don't imply I'm sitting here chewing my nails hiding under a table.

 

[Midpack]

What does “living in fear” mean anyway? Some people seem to think taking any precautions at all is “living in fear”. If I choose to avoid crowds, wear a mask and gloves to the store, interact little with others in person, and avoid dining inside restaurants, am I “living in fear”?

Sorry - the criticizing slogans about fear have gotten to me, because I don’t even begin to understand what people mean, and I wonder whether many of them even understand themselves what they are saying.

I agree it's never said kindly, and almost always a negative disparaging judgment, so it would be more courteous for folks to avoid using that to refer to one another here.

I wear a seatbelt, I don't ride a motorcycle without a helmet. I don't think I'll ever opt to take a helicopter. There are sensible ways to get through life carefully, with minimal disruption to my happiness, which don't imply I'm sitting here chewing my nails hiding under a table.

Sorry. How would you word it? I wasn’t trying to criticize anyone. There have been a few people here and elsewhere online who’ve claimed they will not go out until there’s a proven vaccine. That’s the only way I know of to guarantee you’re not infected. I called that “living in fear” - not an option for most people anyway.

 

[tmm99]

+1

I'd be willing to get a vaccine, but I'm not sure about willingly being among the first in line. My guess, and this is really off topic, is that priorities for who gets it first will be implemented. Look at current priorities for testing and those will be who gets pushed to the front of the line. It might even be mandatory for some groups, like those who work in health care facilities and first responders. They'll target LTC facilities. If/When a vaccine is first available, the general public will be waiting a long, long time for a place in line.

You and your family members may already have had COVID-19, right? Are you considering taking the antibody test? You may already be part of the projected 70%, and if you are, you may not have to worry about the vaccine for a while (maybe/maybe not- we don't know that yet but...) and it may make things easier for your children back at work...

 

[Corporateburnout]

Unfortunately, I think this is going to be common. With a lot of dine in restaurants opening, I think there will be many unwilling to social distance in public. Will restaurants be able to enforce it? Maybe some will. Others perhaps won’t want to. For this reason I will be avoiding public venues except for grocery stores that hopefully continue to make it possible for customers to socially distance. Bars, restaurants and other party places - no reason for me to join any crowd.

+1.

As someone who enjoyed the experience of dining out, I will not be visiting a restaurant anytime soon except for takeout. We will be enjoying our own grilling and food preparation at home.

 

[tmm99]

I guess for me, my action depends on when (soon or much later) the vaccine becomes available. I will try to hunker down as long as I can. If we can come up with some kind of treatment/medication that can curve the severity of the illness, that will probably let me venture out more and do more activities. My mom is 91 with terminal/inoperable cancer and lives in Japan. At this point, I am resigned to accepting the possibility that I may not being able to see her before she goes. Knowing that there's a huge chance of me getting infected on the plane to go see her, it's better that I don't see her in person but just communicate over the phone, etc.

I used to play volleyball at least 3 times a week - leagues, drop-ins, tournaments, etc. It was a very big part of my life until the coronavirus hit. I cannot imagine me playing again until something (effective treatment/medication or vaccine) comes out. Some of my younger volleyball friends in their 20s are ready to play as soon as the restriction gets lifted. And good for them; most of them will have no problem dealing with the coronavirus (and hopefully, they don't have close contact with vulnerable relatives), and those people can join the infected (projected) 70%.

 

[gwraigty]

You and your family members may already have had COVID-19, right? Are you considering taking the antibody test? You may already be part of the 70%, and if you are, you may not have to worry about the vaccine for a while (maybe/maybe not- we don't know that yet but...) and it may make things easier for your children back at work...

I'd like to take an antibody test. I submitted my info and got selected for pre-screening for the NIH study. I submitted a request to be part of the 1,200 households in Ohio they're going to be selecting at random for an antibody test, but I don't hold out much hope. I was told a computer would be making the selections.

Yes, an antibody test would be quite useful for people in the workplace right now, for several reasons.

 

[CaptTom]

Are you considering taking the antibody test? You may already be part of the 70%, and if you are, you may not have to worry about the vaccine for a while

... and those people can join the infected 70%.

First off, can anyone cite a reliable reference for that 70% figure? That would be fantastic if it turns out to be accurate! Obviously antibody testing will eventually give us the real number.

I'd go for antibody testing today if it were readily available. Even without knowing if and for how long it gives immunity, knowing you've had it once and didn't have severe symptoms suggests you'd be OK even if you did get it again. Of course, that doesn't help others you may come in contact with. But it's a start.

 

[gwraigty]

My mom is 91 with terminal/inoperable cancer and lives in Japan. At this point, I am resigned to accepting the possibility that I may not being able to see her before she goes. Knowing that there's a huge chance of me getting infected on the plane to go see her, it's better that I don't see her in person but just communicate over the phone, etc.

I'm sorry about your Mom.

 

[cathy63]

First off, can anyone cite a reliable reference for that 70% figure? That would be fantastic if it turns out to be accurate! Obviously antibody testing will eventually give us the real number.

I'd go for antibody testing today if it were readily available. Even without knowing if and for how long it gives immunity, knowing you've had it once and didn't have severe symptoms suggests you'd be OK even if you did get it again. Of course, that doesn't help others you may come in contact with. But it's a start.

70% is not the percentage of people who've already had the virus. It's the number that is projected to provide herd immunity if the virus has an R0 of 3.3 when few or no precautions to prevent spread are taken and if having had the virus confers immunity. I think studies so far have shown an R0 of more like 3.6 or 3.8, which would mean herd immunity is more like 73%, and there's still an open question of whether or not having had it confers immunity at all.

Also, the reports from China were that the people who seemed to get it a second time had more severe cases, though it's really not clear whether they did get exposed and infected after being completely cured, or if the relapses were part of the original infection.

 

[neihn]

We’ve had take out a number of times over the past few weeks. It’s pretty clear some restaurants are prepared to operate in a new environment, while others aren’t. I think people voting with their feet and pocketbooks will have plenty of influence and impact, probably as much as the sum of regulations.

Agree, people vote with their feet and pocketbooks, but the virus don't care about the votes.

Are we all in it to stop the virus? If we are not all in it to stop the virus, then why the WH having conference everyday?

 

[tmm99]

I'd like to take an antibody test. I submitted my info and got selected for pre-screening for the NIH study. I submitted a request to be part of the 1,200 households in Ohio they're going to be selecting at random for an antibody test, but I don't hold out much hope. I was told a computer would be making the selections.

Yes, an antibody test would be quite useful for people in the workplace right now, for several reasons.

I would like to take an antiboy test too. DH and I had a cold that knocked both of us down for a couple of days at the beginning of March and I lost sense of smell for one day. Although a simple cold could produce these symptoms, I am hoping it was COVID-19. One can always hope...

A lot of people are asymptomatic, so it's worth everyone taking the test really.

 

[gwraigty]

I'll just add this here, because of my post #46 about the potential health issues with wearing masks for several hours non-stop. In today's press conference, a reporter asked about possible long-term side effects from having to do this. Acton said that it was important to take breaks when you can. I passed on the info to DD. Maybe having this info will help anyone here who finds it difficult to get through even a grocery shopping trip. It starts near the end at about 1:13:xx to 1:14:xx:

Governor Mike DeWine - 5-12-2020 - COVID-19 Update

 

[Katsmeow]

I don't really see me going to eat at a restaurant any time soon. At this point, I just don't plan to do it at all. We do eat take out about once a week and I am comfortable doing that. The reason to go to a restaurant rather than get take out is really just to have the restaurant ambiance (I usually go with DH). But, right now the restaurant ambiance just doesn't seem appealing to me and not worth risk.

I could imagine in the fall, perhaps, when the whether has started getting cooler than summer I might go eat outside at a restaurant. I am persuaded that the highest risks are when you are somewhere for an extended period of time indoors.

So I am more open to going to places where you get in and get out and aren't just captive (like in a restaurant or theater). So, I would be more likely to go to a grocery store for a quick trip than go to a restaurant. We have little concern about getting curbside pick up of food (we do transfer food to our own containers once home).

No, I don't think I can stay home all the time until there is a vaccine. But, I do want to stay home until there is better testing capacity and I see how things go with the opening of businesses. I'll reassess as testing and contact tracing grows.

 

[neihn]

Same here, DW is a great cook (Vietnamese food), we go to Western restaurant for the ambience once in a while, every two or three weeks. But I don't think it is fun to go now or until some effective testing, contact tracing are in place.

We will do Costco, groceries run with mask every two weeks. We have the natural park trail near by that we walk everyday (
with mask on Sat and Sun, since more people at the trail). With our already simply life style we don't miss much.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Our restaurants are slowly reopening. Everyday I hear about another one. I guess it takes time to get ready with all the guidelines.

 

[W2R]

Restaurants in our suburb can re-open at 25% of rated capacity, starting tomorrow!!

Our favorite (Italian) restaurant has been so cautious and stellar during this "take out only" period, and has really been on top of this problem of possible virus transmission and dealing with it superbly in our opinion. Very impressive. They have a terrific wait staff, very responsible young people.

The dining area is only one well ventilated, airy room, with double doors to the outside and high ceilings. It has about a dozen tables, and before the pandemic we seldom saw more than 2-4 other tables occupied when we were there. Often we were the only customers since we don't eat at peak hours. It's not the type of place where people are crowded and nearly on top of one another. Well, OK, I admit that sometimes they have birthday parties and such and then they are pretty crowded, but these are easy to avoid.

Tomorrow I suspect we will drive by it and check out the parking lot to see how crowded it is or isn't. If it doesn't look crowded, and if we both feel comfortable with it, then we might even eat there tomorrow. We'll see. If not tomorrow, then soon.

 

[gwraigty]

McDonald's Reopening Customer Journey

Above is a simple one page guide to your new McDonald's experience. Due to new social distancing guidelines, I predict that McDonald's is about to get a bit noisier as several smaller groups of old men are forced to be spread all throughout the dining rooms shouting to each other to have their conversations.

 

[statsman]

Restaurants in our suburb can re-open at 25% of rated capacity, starting tomorrow!!

I wish you good luck, but with the rigidness of the guidelines, I expect numerous restaurants that were otherwise popular and profitable prior to COVID-19 to not survive. People seem willing to let restaurants go under who can't adapt to their expectations for fighting COVID-19 or (heaven forbid) similar. I'm not saying people aren't entitled to these requirements. Just don't be surprised by the outcome.