Outtahere
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2005
- Messages
- 1,677
MyDream - If I can do this you can too!! Read as many books, websites and messages boards as it takes until you reach that "AH HA!" moment.
FinanceDude said:Really? Care to expound upon that??
F M All said:WTF. Who mentioned any other trade than FA?
I believe in paying people for the services they provide. Every Financial advisor I have used has charged me for producing lower returns than I can achieve on my own (or, more precisely, with SWMBO). That is not a service worth paying for.
F M All said:Yes, compensation based on beating a certain metric, and sharing the gain, instead of x percent of the total portfolio whatever the performance.
saluki9 said:1. Other trades were mentioned because it was implied that you can't get good service from somebody who is trying to make money. That in itself is pretty foolish because I'm not aware of too many people who are in business to lose money.
2. Have you considered that some advisors work on an hourly fee? In addition, if you goal is to find somebody (and they are seeking clients) on the principle that they can beat the market then perhaps you are looking for the wrong thing in an advisor. Most will not beat the market averages. However, the average individual investor is so far from even matching index returns that it isn't funny.
In other words, the average person didn't need an advisor in 1999, a lot of people who didn't have them needed one in 2000 and 2001=
Yes, compensation based on beating a certain metric, and sharing the gain, instead of x percent of the total portfolio whatever the performance.
Is that a wish, or a dream? Because that's not in the NASD/SEC rulebook, as far as I know............ Wink
scrinch said:Is that a wish, or a dream? Because that's not in the NASD/SEC rulebook, as far as I know............ Wink
Regardless of whether it is a wish or a dream, it would place the adviser in a position where his/her motivation would be completely aligned with the customer's motivation. And that is to find a better risked return than the customer would achieve by him/herself (the "certain metric").
mickeyd said:Reading books, as opposed to newsletters and magazines, is a superior way to become an informed investor. Of course, reading a book requires a certain amount of commitment and perseverance in that you have to acquire the book (purchase or library), read it, understand it and perhaps read it again.
This list form diehards.org is one of the better lists that you can refer to. All of the publications will assist any of us in our quest to become a much more informed investor. http://www.diehards.org/readbooks.htm
FinanceDude said:There are any number of occupations where changing the metric would help.....not just FA's.........how about if my attorney only charges me if he/she wins the case? Maybe the plumber can give me a 25% discount if the toilet he installed fails in the nect 3 years?? I am for that 100%............
I guess you can commoditize anything...........
There are any number of occupations where changing the metric would help.....not just FA's.........how about if my attorney only charges me if he/she wins the case? Maybe the plumber can give me a 25% discount if the toilet he installed fails in the nect 3 years?? I am for that 100%............ laugh laugh
I guess you can commoditize anything...........
FinanceDude said:Saluki, you are beating your head against the wall..............folks on here care about little else other than the "my advisor couldn't beat XYZ fund, so I dumped him/her............
I am pretty stupid, though........... In 1999, I "only" took 20% of my clients equity portfolios and reallocated to bonds............ . I'm "sure" they would have done that on their own............ : : :
scrinch said:Why do you consider it "commoditization" to work to a reasonable performance standard? The plumber comes back and fixes the toilet if it starts leaking within a reasonable period of time. For free.
I admit that it would be difficult to define the performance standard for a FA, but the concept of doing so is not ridiculous. Aligning the motivations of the buyer and seller makes sense (but perhaps not enough dollars?).
OK, let's torture this analogy for a while.FinanceDude said:Maybe the plumber can give me a 25% discount if the toilet he installed fails in the nect 3 years?? I am for that 100%............
I guess you can commoditize anything...........
Nords said:OK, let's torture this analogy for a while.
Doesn't it seem odd that financial advisors don't offer a warranty?
If the plumber blames my leaky toilet on high pressure or excess water minerals or my Cheese-Doodle diet, then I'd get a new plumber. Plumbers are supposed to be aware of those problems and to install toilets equipped to deal with them. Yet when our portfolio is leaking, all we hear is "What a great opportunity to buy a bigger toilet!" or "Buy a safer toilet!" or "Past results are no guarantee of future performance!"
Personally I'd take the opportunity to search for a better plumber. And I'd want my %^&ing money back from the other plumber along with an apology for incompetence, too...
Granted, although they don't have a monopoly on that industry...frayne said:The financial industry is ripe for abuse of the unknowing individual. And that my friends is the unvarnished turth.
mickeyd said:Reading books, as opposed to newsletters and magazines, is a superior way to become an informed investor. Of course, reading a book requires a certain amount of commitment and perseverance in that you have to acquire the book (purchase or library), read it, understand it and perhaps read it again.
This list from diehards.org is one of the better lists that you can refer to. All of the publications will assist any of us in our quest to become a much more informed investor. http://www.diehards.org/readbooks.htm
Retire Soon said:MD, if you received an average 1% return, you actually lost money when inflation is factored in. I would recommend reading this book by John bogle, the father of indexing: "Common Sense on Mutual Funds." When you get done, you'll know more than your IG advisor.
kcowan said:My Dream
I suggest you go to Morningstar. You can learn a lot about funds there. Look for funds that have an MER of under 1%. You want to start simple. Get some index funds that mirror the markets you want to participate in. Because you are in Canada, you will want some C$ exposure. The funds there are biased toward banking and resources. So you might diversify with a US index covering other sectors. The you want international exposure.
You will need a discount brokerage account to buy no load funds. TDW offer eFunds that carry low costs and perform well. Good luck. And welcome to the DIY gang.
A Financial Planner might help you set up a realistic budget and do some DRIP investing. Get one who charges by the hour and cannot sell you any products. Some of the advice here (e.g. diehards) does not apply well to your situation. Try Financial Webring.
I'm already invested in TD Canadian Equity, which is my neighbors advice and TDW is what I'm presently using.Meadbh said:My Dream,
I think there is a way to buy Vanguard funds in Canada; I read something about it on the Financial Webring Forum. Do go over there; lots of Canadian content, some of it quite sophisticated. One of the posters is Jonathan Chevreau.
It sounds like you might still need some professional expertise. Take your time and do some research before aligning yourself with another financial services firm. For low MERs, do check out Philips Hager & North in Vancouver. You can check out the details of many funds, including returns and MER, on the Morningstar website.
My Dream said:I going to take your advice which others have also given, but I don't think I can finish the book I'm presently reading since it's just not keeping me interested...I'm going to try to do this on my own, but will listen and value any good advice that I can get.
Leonidas said:......you have to be an informed consumer of investment products or you risk being taken again.