Genworth 1.68X Increase Oh Boy

[mf15]

You have got to be kidding me.
$953 to $1556 a quarter and that's just for me.
Phased in over 2 years,if I don't reduce coverage.

Talk about inflation. Due to increased healthare cost. Bull.

Really have to think their alternative plans over,wife will probably
need TAVR this year procedure can give you a stroke or other problems.

They have been increasing cost every year,but this one is insane.

Highly aggravated, having a VO.
Oldmike

 

[MichaelB]

Genworth is long term care insurance?

If so, that’s a pretty brutal increase.

 

[mf15]

Genworth is long term care insurance?

If so, that’s a pretty brutal increase.

Yes long term care,had for past 20 years,yes increase is brutal.
In the past years only about 20% increases,but this takes the cake.
They also don't offer to give paid in money back,if decide to opt out.
They will give coverage for that amount,only.
Nursing home care 11,000 /month or so their figures.
They are trying to drive us old folks out. State insurance people approve this crap.
Oldmike

 

[friar1610]

I know there is a pending increase coming from the Federal employees’ LTC plan later this year. (Provider is John Hancock under contract to OPM.) I am scared to death how much it might be.

 

[Graybeard]

LTC has gotten so expensive plus they really blew it 20 years ago with pricing premiums so IMO they are trying to force you out to get out from under the policies. I've paid in since 2000 for 1 policy and 2008 for another. Rates never increased and they they started. It's so expensive to be in a nursing home I think the premiums are just a fraction of that so I just pay the increase.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I have Genworth LTCI for the past 14 years. Over the 14 years, I got an increase of 10% 2 years ago, and I count myself lucky. I have very high coverage amount, with 3% annual increase.

 

[zippy2020]

We have the state pension fund-sponsored LTCi. Dirt cheap at first so I warned spouse it was underpriced, and we should expect increases. Which is what has happened; premiums are 4x higher than original (but those original low premiums stayed in place for 11 yrs, so we considered it a good deal overall).

Like RetiredHappy, we have very high coverage, ours is a 5% annual compounded increase. Carriers don't sell our type of policy any longer, as the benefit term is unlimited. As we live in a HCOL area, minimum wage increases alone justify higher premiums. Skilled Care Nursing is now $15K/month OR MORE around here, so even at our higher premiums, our cost doesn't even come close to what we'd pay if just one of us went into SCN.

If both of us needed care - I don't even want to think about being uninsured for that!

 

[Dash man]

Wow, that’s about what we pay for both of us! Ours also covers assisted living and home care if needed. Ours is a John Hancock group policy from my previous employer. We can get COL increases every three years.

 

[Montecfo]

They try to get people to drop.

The unknown cost of LTC is why I think dual whole life or second to die life insurance policies are a better way to go.

 

[DrRoy]

We are self insuring for this. The 20 years of payments would make a nice medical fund.

 

[arcyallen]

I remember when these first came out I was told they likely wouldn't increase rates much because "if they did it, they wouldn't be competitive with everyone else". Man, that smelled awfully fishy...

 

[Northforker]

My father's nursing home bill is $9000+/month in small town kentucky

 

[EastWest Gal]

Genworth's increase in LTC premiums to cover "healthcare" costs is complete bull. Your coverage specifies a maximum amount of monthly payment, then you pay the rest. We switched to MetLife last November, and though our coverage is a bit less, the rest is going to be self-insured. Which is why I've started regular gifting to our son in the form of equities, not cash. It's giving him bits of the estate each year.

Genworth is a troubled company. Its financial ratings have been downgraded for the past few years.

 

[RetiredHappy]

We are self insuring for this. The 20 years of payments would make a nice medical fund.

We would have self-insured except that when we started our business in elder care industry after leaving high tech, we learned that whether one has a LTCI policy or not, influences one's behavior in accepting paid care or not. We had seen many very well-to-do individuals and families' refusal to pay for care when they had not bought LTCI because they wanted to leave the money to their descendents.

Not accounting for net present value, I have only paid $17K to Genworth over the past 14 years. If I need care now, that amount will be exhausted after a month and a half.

 

[mf15]

Genworth's increase in LTC premiums to cover "healthcare" costs is complete bull. Your coverage specifies a maximum amount of monthly payment, then you pay the rest. We switched to MetLife last November, and though our coverage is a bit less, the rest is going to be self-insured. Which is why I've started regular gifting to our son in the form of equities, not cash. It's giving him bits of the estate each year.

Genworth is a troubled company. Its financial ratings have been downgraded for the past few years.

I never thought of it that way,I think you are right. I do have 5% inflation clause, but my max and monthly are otherwise fixed. So if cost go up,not their problem,I however run out faster. So why such a premium increase when their max cost is fixed. State insurance regulators approve this mess every year.
Their reason. As a result of higher aggregate policyholder claims cost.

Oldmike

 

[mf15]

lawsuit info,I am in some of them according to genworth.
Oldmike
https://www.fphawaii.com/blog-01/sh...-care-insurance-class-action-settlement-offer

 

[RetiredHappy]

lawsuit info,I am in some of them according to genworth.
Oldmike
https://www.fphawaii.com/blog-01/sh...-care-insurance-class-action-settlement-offer

Thank you for the link. When I received my first/only rate increase letter 2 years ago, it gave me the option of getting a refund of paid premiums, which appears to be one of the outcomes from the class action lawsuit.

At this point, my rates are still very low, $107 per month for about $9K a month coverage with 3% annual increase in coverage, with the maximum lifetime claim amount of 5 years' inflation (3%) adjusted value, currently at about $540K.

 

[mf15]

They won't refund my 40K I have put in.
Oldmike

 

[youbet]

Have you offered to give back the years of coverage they provided? (Just kiddin’.)

 

[athena53]

In defense of the people who priced LTC coverage (I'm a retired actuary but not in that business), early products were priced without really good data. Assumptions included how many people would go into LTC and at what age, how long they'd stay and how many people would just let their policies lapse. You can expect that the people who let their policies lapse are healthier on average so the remaining group is more likely to need LTC. It's also likely that people who are in LTC live longer because someone (hopefully) is taking care of their basic needs. Hard to quantify those effects.

 

[Donno]

I have a friend that bought LTHC coverage around 20 years ago because he was worried about being "homeless" if he fell ill since he was single. Fast forward 20 years and he has fallen ill, but his investments and an inheritance have left him with a few million dollars and his LTHC coverage won't pay a dime because he only has something like 4 of the 5 needed conditions required for them to pay.
I'm glad I didn't waste my money on this insurance. I'll take my chances.

 

[athena53]

Fast forward 20 years and he has fallen ill, but his investments and an inheritance have left him with a few million dollars and his LTHC coverage won't pay a dime because he only has something like 4 of the 5 needed conditions required for them to pay.

Nords on this board had a battle with an LTC insurer- so did the financial guru Jim Cramer when his father had a bad stroke. Cramer fought them to the mat and won although he said the legal fees wiped most of that out.

 

[Nords]

Nords on this board had a battle with an LTC insurer-

I don't have any further advice to offer, other than that Genworth is convincing state insurance regulators that they can only afford to pay the claims if they (1) force a higher lapse rate and (2) get more money from the rest of their cohorts to pay new claims.

This post links to a research study by Boston College's Center for Retirement Research with more insight on the demographics and the financials:
https://militaryfinancialindependence.com/2014/12/18/wont-buy-long-term-care-insurance/

It was originally published in 2014 but not much has changed, and the changes have generally been for the worse. For example, the federal long-term care insurance program has suspended new applications for two years:
https://www.ltcfeds.com/support/suspension-notice

 

[athena53]

I don't have any further advice to offer, other than that Genworth is convincing state insurance regulators that they can only afford to pay the claims if they (1) force a higher lapse rate and (2) get more money from the rest of their cohorts to pay new claims.

And the death spiral will continue. The people who lapse will be the ones who foresee a less-likely need for it- those who expect shorter lifespans due to serious health issues, those who have no history of Alzheimer's in their family, etc. The ones who hang onto their policies no matter what are the ones most likely to make claims.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I just got my 2nd increase letter in 14 years, the increase is another 10%. My new premium is $117 per month, with coverage of $9100 per month, and 3% compound increase each year. I will keep my policy.