help with HOA

[pb4uski]

I have a letter here from the management company last Nov that states having a tree is not in the CC&Rs it was a request. I requested to not have one and she said sure.

As of yesterday they seem to have decided it is an actual "rule" thought I have not been provided "proof" of this rule.

I really don't want the damn thing as I do not have space but of course I am not going to sue the HOA either. (The last nursery I had refused to plant one - so it will be a hassle - I was trying to be "nice" by going along with the "request").

Any suggestions? I am rather upset over this as I thought it was long since settled. It is far too hot to plant right now (in AZ) by my way of thinking.

Yes.

They just replied to me that all properties look better with trees. They apparently want me to have the lines marked again and shop around until I get some fool to dig a hole . . . where I have been told is not enough room. I would guess its like 12 inches between electric and cable. I guess I will need to get stakes and have it marked in a way that does not wash off.

Whole thing seems ridiculous.

The CC&R just state all dead plants must be replaced. Which they been. Just with other things. . . .

And the current board just showed up last year - i been here 20 and its not been a problem.

Yep there is no plant list or "all yards must have 1 tree and 2 bushes" or anything like that. It is mostly about being free of weeds, trash, pink flamingos, removing dead plants . .

So let me see if I have the facts straight. None of the written documents of the HOA require a tree. There are numerous other properties in the HOA that do not have trees. You have been there for 20 years and have not had a tree during those 20 years.

If so, it sounds to me like the current iteration of the board has a preference for trees but that it has never been codified in any of the written rules. I'd just tell them that you prefer not to have a tree and that arborists have advised that you don't have sufficient room for a tree and as a result you are disinclined to plant a tree. If they don't like it they can write to your lawyers... Stall, Hinder and Delay.

 

[badatmath]

Yep we have no reserves (well not many) I bitched about it last year and no one cared. Was basically told the board can do what they like. I think we have like 10k and the required is like 70k - don't remember now exactly but it is a huge discrepancy. I asked when we getting an assessment and they were pretty much like shut up. My state did not have any way to "make" them fund it I looked up the law. These are SFH and not attached or anything but there are plenty of things we have to pay for.

Walt24 - one of the neighbors put a fake ficus out last year . It only last about 2 days before they noticed.

pb4uski - Yep you got it in one. Thanks for the laugh. But they keep escalating. Actually maybe I can get something from the people who refuse the work . . or get the lines marked and get an arborist out there to say so.
Yes, I plan to move one day. . . but not today.

 

[Sunset]

OP - Run for the board. Since there are few homeowners, you can simply go house to house and tell folks you are running.
It would be good to have a goal: clean up the mismanagement and waste of money happening always seems to gather votes
If any homes are rentals, ask the tenant for the landlords address and write/phone them for their proxy vote.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I would not try to placate them, as people who feel that the rules are what they think or say they are often do that because they like the feeling of power of pushing people around. They're basically the (barely) adult version of a schoolyard bully. If you tell them no and there's nothing in the rules about having to have a tree, there's not much they can do other than bluster and threaten.

 

[eytonxav]

I would not try to placate them, as people who feel that the rules are what they think or say they are often do that because they like the feeling of power of pushing people around. They're basically the (barely) adult version of a schoolyard bully. If you tell them no and there's nothing in the rules about having to have a tree, there's not much they can do other than bluster and threaten.

As an HOA President I love that commercial that has Cynthia the HOA nazi. We have one member on our board who is like that and managing his antics is worse than any problem homeowners.

 

[badatmath]

I would not try to placate them, as people who feel that the rules are what they think or say they are often do that because they like the feeling of power of pushing people around. They're basically the (barely) adult version of a schoolyard bully. If you tell them no and there's nothing in the rules about having to have a tree, there's not much they can do other than bluster and threaten.

I suspect you are right. They have upset quite a few of the neighbors but no one want to do it - a few already have and went nope never again.

OP - Run for the board.

I don't think I have the temperament for it though I like to think I am relatively reasonable person. I don't want to give myself fits of crazy - I get that at w*rk. I don't think it would be difficult to win - so far as I know they never get enough votes anyway.

 

[rk911]

I suspect you are right. They have upset quite a few of the neighbors but no one want to do it - a few already have and went nope never again.


I don't think I have the temperament for it though I like to think I am relatively reasonable person. I don't want to give myself fits of crazy - I get that at w*rk. I don't think it would be difficult to win - so far as I know they never get enough votes anyway.

i don’t intend this to sound harsh or uncaring but if you’re not willing to stand up for yourself nobody else likely will. if you don’t want to do a person-to-person thing then write back to the mgmt company asking them to cite chapter and verse.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

In our condo association the rules are published and are on the association website. If they haven't provided you and other owners with written rules, then there are no rules.

Sounds like they are making stuff up. Are there other properties in your HOA that do not have a tree?

in that case i'd, politely at first, [-]demand[/-], er, ask, your board to show you chapter and verse. it's their burden to prove the rule, not yours. absent that i wouldn't do a thing.

This information could get some folks in trouble that don't understand how a covenant works or how it might apply to a homeowner. Why you ask? Well...

More often than not, the covenants are recorded with the county clerk's office (or similar entity) when the neighborhood is created and *may* be provided when you purchase the home (as the first owner, or perhaps a subsequent purchaser). If it's recorded, even if you aren't provided a copy, you are most likely on the hook for the restrictions since it was available to you through the public filing since the restrictions "run with the land" and shouldn't be ignored. -This is very general information and not all jurisdictions follow this rule, so YMMV.

I have seen examples like this where a homeowner refused said tree/bush/etc. and the HOA went ahead and planted one for the homeowner and sent them the bill. Sound ridiculous? It happens every day and many homeowner's grant permission for the HOA to do such a thing. The issue is that when people get the HOA docs (or are know that they exist) but try and ignore them, they get super pissed off that the "HOA TRESPASSED!!! I AM NOT PAYING THIS BILL!!!!" when they fail to realize that they agreed to it when they bought the house.

OP, if the rule is indeed in the covenants but it hasn't been enforced for 20 years, then you may have an acquiescence defense, but tread lightly in this arena!

 

[rk911]

This information could get some folks in trouble that don't understand how a covenant works or how it might apply to a homeowner. Why you ask? Well...

More often than not, the covenants are recorded with the county clerk's office (or similar entity) when the neighborhood is created and *may* be provided when you purchase the home (as the first owner, or perhaps a subsequent purchaser). If it's recorded, even if you aren't provided a copy, you are most likely on the hook for the restrictions since it was available to you through the public filing since the restrictions "run with the land" and shouldn't be ignored. -This is very general information and not all jurisdictions follow this rule, so YMMV.

I have seen examples like this where a homeowner refused said tree/bush/etc. and the HOA went ahead and planted one for the homeowner and sent them the bill. Sound ridiculous? It happens every day and many homeowner's grant permission for the HOA to do such a thing. The issue is that when people get the HOA docs (or are know that they exist) but try and ignore them, they get super pissed off that the "HOA TRESPASSED!!! I AM NOT PAYING THIS BILL!!!!" when they fail to realize that they agreed to it when they bought the house.

OP, if the rule is indeed in the covenants but it hasn't been enforced for 20 years, then you may have an acquiescence defense, but tread lightly in this arena!

sorry, but i don't see the need to tread lightly. my [-]demand[/-] was crossed off as a pitiful attempt at humor. but respectfully asking to see the specific rule or covenant is not an unreasonable approach. blind obedience is not a good strategy.

 

[38Chevy454]

One potential problem is "interpretation" of the rule. So ensure you have the exact wording. Agree that dealing with power trip members on the board can be tough.
I was on the architectural committee at my old house neighborhood. I viewed the job as helping people to be able to do what they wanted within the rules. I absolutely did not play cop and try to find rule violations. Seems your board is not of the same viewpoint as I was.

 

[badatmath]

It is like they hope we do something wrong! Even if they have to stretch to find it. Going to cost a few bucks if they buy trees for all the houses that don't have one - maybe 1/2 the people.

I ventured out today for the first time lately and that 3 of the 4 people they have bullied into planting have dead trees now. . . um it is too hot to plant new trees in the desert in the middle of summer!!! I guess now they can fine them for dead trees WHILE nagging them to get new ones?! Like double the fun!

 

[pb4uski]

I think your best path is to keep a low profile, go dark on them as much as you can.. don't return phone calls or emails and hope they move on to others and ultimately they give up.

But if they do get on you just fib a little and tell them you talked with counsel and were advised that they don't have a leg to stand on so you're not inclined to do anything.

 

[Souschef]

. I'd just tell them that you prefer not to have a tree and that arborists have advised that you don't have sufficient room for a tree and as a result you are disinclined to plant a tree. If they don't like it they can write to your lawyers... Stall, Hinder and Delay.

Or contact my lawyers: Hung Drawn and Quartered

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Or contact my lawyers: Hung Drawn and Quartered

I prefer the firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe.

 

[a60dan]

Many people make statements they cannot back up.

As previously recommended, ask for the specific requirements in writing, referencing the sections that you agreed to.

95% of the blowhards I deal with can’t read, let alone write, the instructions to inflate a life raft ?

Document your position that without “chapter & verse”, you will take no action.

This makes me want to ask for the discussion on “Why would I ever want an HOA?”, but don’t let me hijack this one.....

 

[Murph]

plant a bonsai tree

 

[troutnut1]

Many people make statements they cannot back up.

As previously recommended, ask for the specific requirements in writing, referencing the sections that you agreed to.

95% of the blowhards I deal with can’t read, let alone write, the instructions to inflate a life raft ��

Document your position that without “chapter & verse”, you will take no action.

This makes me want to ask for the discussion on “Why would I ever want an HOA?”, but don’t let me hijack this one.....

Agreed! I spent may years on a very large HOA (454 units) and even we didn’t have the excess funds for legal fees to chase nonsense rules violations. We would have literally had to file suit to enforce something like this and it would have meant a huge expenditure, and probable special assessment to pull it off. Talk is cheap! And the board are normally volunteers with no training or practical experience in these matters. Hopefully, at some point in the process they will figure out that an attorney who will ask for a HUGE check just to get things started, with no guarantee of success. I saw this happen recently, so it can happen. But in this case the HOA spent tens of thousands of dollars, about three year, and LOST.

I would just keep saying “let me think about that”. Most of them are like Scut Farkus, the bully in A Christmas Story.

 

[COcheesehead]

Agreed! I spent may years on a very large HOA (454 units) and even we didn’t have the excess funds for legal fees to chase nonsense rules violations. We would have literally had to file suit to enforce something like this and it would have meant a huge expenditure, and probable special assessment to pull it off. Talk is cheap! And the board are normally volunteers with no training or practical experience in these matters. Hopefully, at some point in the process they will figure out that an attorney who will ask for a HUGE check just to get things started, with no guarantee of success. I saw this happen recently, so it can happen. But in this case the HOA spent tens of thousands of dollars, about three year, and LOST.

I would just keep saying “let me think about that”. Most of them are like Scut Farkus, the bully in A Christmas Story.

An HOA can levy fines, payable upon sale of the property.

 

[troutnut1]

An HOA can levy fines, payable upon sale of the property.

And yes, there is this possibility if it is in your legal documents. It would pay to read and understand your association’s documents and what their recourse might be. If they are legal, enforceable, and provide for fines in a situation like this, then it could be a problem. But generally speaking, there is a procedure for notices, a hearing, etc. if this is the case. It might be wise to get an attorney consultation while you think about it if you are in doubt.

 

[SonofCohoes]

There’s always that one person the loves landscaping but doesn’t really have a clue about proper plants and placement.

If a landscaper will turn down a job because of buried wires I wonder how tree roots would affect them down the road.

 

[troutnut1]

There’s always that one person the loves landscaping but doesn’t really have a clue about proper plants and placement.

If a landscaper will turn down a job because of buried wires I wonder how tree roots would affect them down the road.

It might be interesting to call the “Call Before You Dig” free national service (dial 811) and tell them where you would plant it if you did. They should come out and spraypaint all over the grass to mark all utilities, phone, power, gas, etc. And they aren’t usually very subtle about it around here. I almost hit a major phone line I had no idea about with a fencepost once.

Is the area they want it planted theirs, yours, or “restricted common area”?

 

[piccolopat]

You should continue to decline to plant a tree that you don't want if you are sure that the HOA rules don't require one. If they persist, remind them that the arborist indicated there wasn't enough room due to the cables. Tell them that if the HOA is willing to pay to have the cables moved so that there was enough room for a tree, you would have one planted. Then plant the smallest, slowest growing tree that you can find for your area.

 

[Walt34]

This makes me want to ask for the discussion on “Why would I ever want an HOA?”, but don’t let me hijack this one.....

HOAs do have their legitimate place. Around here there is no zoning. In their infinite wisdom the majority of the residents of this county have voted it down twice since we've been here. The only thing preventing the guy next door from opening a junkyard, or bar, or tattoo parlor, or strip joint is the HOA. I'll take the HOA, thank you very much.

 

[badatmath]

This makes me want to ask for the discussion on “Why would I ever want an HOA?”, but don’t let me hijack this one.....

It has been okay for the past 19 years, just not now.

All "new" construction in my city requires them so they are hard to avoid else I would have looked farther. The "old" houses in the city I wanted to live in cost more than I could afford when I got this one.

I am in fear of layoffs (an every 2 year thing) so reluctant to start looking to add any more expenses. I wish I had a crystal ball.

 

[badatmath]

Is the area they want it planted theirs, yours, or “restricted common area”?

Mine, and not landscaped or maintained by them.